Well I did it with the the tubbs kit in my 300RUM, and I think I regret it. I cannot get my groups back the way there were. I was shooting .8" groups with 180Nosler PT with CCI 250 Primer and 94g of H1000. I pulled the groups off 3 times at the range. Now, with powder wieght from 93g to 96g, groups are averageing 1.5" with five shots at 100 yards. Cannot get my groups back. Ever since I firelapped, I have tried 4 different bullets with three different powders with two different primers. Tryed 200g A-Frames, 180g Bearclaws, 180 Nosler PT, and 180g Speer Grandslams. Tryed H1000, Re22, and Re25 and Fed 215M and CCI 250 primers. Also, tried factory ammo. Was getting 1.1" with factory, now about 1.6".

Yea, its easier to clean, but .6" greater groups at 100 yards was a hefty price. Just one guys experience. I know people that swear by it, and love it. But just want to warn those of the possible outcome. Also, my throat length got another .006" longer. Guess its another reason for me to send my gun off to Krieger to be rebarreled.

Bigcountry- Well I tried to warn everybody about this and got some flames as a result! I've spent alot of time making precision chambers and this approach goes against everything I've ever learned!
We had a big laugh about the David Tubb " Final Finish" at the FCSA .50 BMG, 1000 yrd shoot in Reno two weeks ago. There were a whole lot of World class shooters there including the World record holder and NO ONE USES THE" FINAL FINISH". We all know better. Look at it this way now you can get a better barrel and not deal with such hype in the future. Sorry-Rob

BC:

First question - Why did you do it?

Second question - Why didn't you listen to us when we told you not to do it?

Third question - Now whatch gonna do?

Check your bullet to land measurement. Most likely you have pushed your throat far forward with a high pressure, high velocity round like the RUM. You may once again find accuracy by seating long.

Sorry for the headaches, however, fire lapping is not a good idea. Especially on a new gun and, most especially when it was already shooting very well.

I had the complete opposite results. I used the 338 Kit in my Lapua. Groups went from an average of 2.5" to .75". The gun is a Sako TRG-S with a factory barrel, I was ready to send it off to get rebarrelled, I figured I would spend the money and try it. I'm glad I did. I wouldn't do it on every rifle especially if one was already shooting below MOA. But I figured with the groups I was getting it sure as heck couldn't hurt anything anymore.

Like I say this is the experience I have had, FWIW.

Jim

You have essentially a new rifle, so you can't compare your old to new loads. You'll have to work up new pet loads, and, in my experience, you'll end up using a little faster powder. FWIW, Dutch.

Zero Drift,
Did it cause of copper fouling. Didn't listen to people cause thats just not me. People, especially on forums go by alot of myth and heresay I found out. So you got to either try it yourself or be very good at picking out the people that know what they are talking about. What am I going to do now, well, going to look at it thru a borescope, and access the damage, and try a few more combos, even though I am at my 5th combo with no luck. Then send my action to Kreiger to be rebarreled. I would hate to push that bullet out any further. It they are already at 3.625" COL and barely fit in the mag. Hey, I am not to proud to admit that it was a huge screw up.

Dutch, as I said in my origianl post, I since the lapping, I have tried 4 different bullets, three different powders and two different primers. All these in different combos. Around 250 shots. So as you can see, thats alot of workup.

338, I agree, I know a few myself that has had excellent luck doing this. My throat was already alot longer than I wanted. I couldn't reach the lands with my bullet before and really can't now.

I just wanted to warn people before they tried it.

Sorry to hear about your results. Though if you are going with a Krieger barrel you will be very happy. I have a Magnum Research Mountain Eagle Rifle (which were built by Krieger) It is on a Sako action that has been machined to accept Remington Bases, trued and lapped. The gun is very accurate for a 338WM.

As I said before, I was going to send my Lapua to them, but I just wanted to see if I could save the money. If you were already going to go with a rebarrel, you only spent a few extra dollars comparitavely.

What barrel length are you going for? A nice 28-30" semi heavy barrel would make for a real nice 300 Ultra.

Let me know the results.

Jim

Hey bigcountry, ZD posted about seating the bullet "closer" to the Lands(which is what I'd have recommended too). But you mentioned you are already Seating them real close to the magazine.

Then you might consider going the other way and Seat them deeper. One of my rifles shoots it's best with a particular bullet Seated 0.268"(yes more than 0.250") Off-the-Lands.

There are typically more than "one harmonic" that works within the Seating Range of the bullets we have. A side benefit is the Pressure might go down "slightly" too.

Good luck to you.

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Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills, Hot Core

BC - Ditto Kreiger barrels. You will wind up with a much better chamber and barrel than you had before. This is one of those good screw ups in that you will have a better gun in the long run.

One other thought - Don't fire lap this one.

[This message has been edited by Zero Drift (edited 05-02-2002).]

I would be very curious to know just how long accuracy was maintained after a succesful " Final Finish". I'll wager no more than 500 rds before that good shooting barrel returns to crap! Wear is wear and wear is not your friend!-Rob

Rob,

I understand that you cannot bring back a barrel with throat erosion (or that has been "shot out") without rechambering and setting the barrel back (and maybe recrowning depending on the extent of the wear). But why would you not use this kit on an obviously rough bore. It is essentially the same lapping kit that NECO has had out for years. Yes you will move the throat forward, but the results I have had has shown an improvement over the orginal chambering job that Sako did. Would I do this process again? Depending on the circumstances, yes I would. Just like any accuracy work done on a gun there may be a need for it. I think "bigcountry" said it best when he said that alot of people on forums speak from theory and not actual experience. I assure you I am not one of those people.

Jim

[This message has been edited by 338Lapua (edited 05-03-2002).]

Well, took it to have it borescoped. There is no defineable edges on the rifling. Probably a result of the firelapping. Also the barrel is all scratched up. Hence the reason for the bad fouling. Gunsmith said it looks like factory marks to him. He said he would send it back to remington. I am in trouble. If I send it to krieger to be rebarreled, we are talking about 12weeks. I am supposed to go for moose the first week of October. That leaves me a month to work up a load and to get it parkerized. If I send it to remington, about6 weeks and not good of a chance of them fixing the problem. According to my gunsmith, he said its took him three times for the custom shop to get it right. He said he sent them a 416 and they said they would diamond lap the barrel. He showed me the video of the borescopeing when he got it back and they lapped the rifling off completely in the middle of the barrel. He sent remington the video and they sent the guy a new gun completely.

Try to explain your situation to Krieger, they may be able to have quicker turn around time for you. Normally people will try to accommadate these type situations. Otherwise check with your gunsmith and see if he can order the barrel and fit and chamber for you. I don't know if this is an option, but it may be quicker as they may (should) have a 30 cal barrel in stock to send him. Just a thought.

Jim

Bigcountry- Unless you can find a gunsmith who will fit and chamber a new barrel in your timeframe, then I'd buy a new 300 ultramag and sell/trade off/fix your old one.
I have also borescoped " fire lapped" barrels and have seen the same stuff you have described. If you have ever looked at a rough barrel you often see deep hole drill chatter as well as rifling button chartter. You would have to firelap out .002 inches to get this stuff out and by that time you have opened up the bore to the point at which it's ruined. Shall we discuss tight and loose spots or harder/softer sections? How will firelapping correct these inhomogeneities?
Unfortunately, too many people "want to believe" that fire lapping will correct their problems and don't want to accept the truth no matter how obvious it is.
There simply is no substitute for a well made barrel and there is no " magical" fix for a bad one except Yanking it and installing another. Life is too short for this.-Rob

Guys, I can't believe tubbs would put his name on this. Figures I guess. I wouldn't have. I think I am going to go for the gusto and try to get this thing to work in time with a new krieger barrel and call it the last time I buy a factory gun.