Pop,
If you are humping the hills for elk... the rule I use is the lighter ther better! Now when I was 20 sommehing it didn't matter much but now that I am pushing 50... my knees feel EVERY pound and my opinion is.... a pound of rifle is more than 5 in a pack...

I can't picture myself packing a Sendero either

My 338 weighs 10 lbs with 24" barrel, my 300 H&H weighs the same with a 26" barrel..all my hunting rifles have long barrels and weigh about 9 or 10 lbs loaded and ready to go...My African DGRs weigh more than that....You run to the top of hill out of breath and try shooting that damn featherweight off hand, it will bounce all over hell and back, you just cannot hold it still. I want a gun that I can hit with under most circumstances as I don't want to walk that far and miss..I'll be 70 soon and I doubt that I will ever hunt with a featherweight rifle again, I tried that route and it didn't work for me..

Lots of todays hunters want 6 lb. rifles and they work fine pointing out the window, or off a bench, and thats their choice which is fine if thats what one likes, just not for me.

Crosshairs,

I agree with you. I also have read many of Mr. Atkinsons posts and respect his reply.

I am also looking for a light weight rifle for the same purpose. I have a Model 7 in 7-08 that is very light. I have shot 2 elk with it. A 5x6 bull at just short of 100yds. and a cow elk at 426 paces. The cow was shot while I was resting my rifle across a log. I handloaded 140gr. Nosler partition and had a complete pass through.

I have been looking at the Rem Titanium in 30-06, it weighs 5.5 lbs. I already have an '06 and wish they would make the same gun in .300 Mag.

Like I said I agree with Mr. Atkinson but due to a severe auto accident where I had a couple of broke vertabre and numerous other injuries I was laid up nearly two years. The result is I cannot carry much weight for any period of time.

6-7 pounds seems to be the piont where I start having problems.

I also read on one of the forums that guys are having good luck with the Colt Light Rifle after they change the trigger and stock. The rifle loses a pound with the stock change.

Keith

It's amazing how your views can change over time. I'm 67 now and dread the thought of lugging one of
the behemoths over hill and dale. I also don't cotton to some of the flyweights (read mountain rifles)
that recoil enough to turn you into a spastic cripple. Seven pounds is enough for me if I'm the one
toting it. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

WWhunter
If you are injured, consider the recoil reduction of a heavy rifle too.

Hunting mulies out west, one of my favorite rifles was a 7RM. This was in the badlands of eastern Wy. Then I evolved to a .280. And ended up using a model 7 in 7-08. Each weight reduction was welcomed. I think Ray's comments are very valid but, in my case in Wy, I used a bipod so the rifles all had a weight forward, barrel heavy feel that certainly helped on moving shoots or any shots that weren't prone. A high stepper in a light rifle is gonna kick the snot out of you and in a couple of shots, you're gonna know it and maybe look for it (read flinch). But how a rifle balances and handles has a lot to do with its "hit ability" more than actual weight. Even in a light rifle, I like a feeling of "substance", a slightly barrel heavy feel, out in front of me.

My light rifle is 5.5 lbs and way cool. I always, always hunt with something else much heavier. I guess if I ever hunt Dall sheep here or Ibex in Iran it will get used but 99% of the time I agree with Ray. I just shoot better with a 8 or 9 pound rifle, regarless of caliber up to 375 H&H.

My horse packs the rifle a majority of the time anyway so it's weight has never been a consideration. Even when I'm on foot for an extended amount of time I've just accepted the fact that the rifle will have some weight to it. As mentioned earlier, a little more weight adds to the weapon's "shootability".

I guess I figure if packing an eight to ten pound rifle up and down the hills is too much for me, I should probably think about staying home.

For me the hunting is much more difficult than the shooting. In particular big game is really easy to hit with a bullet as compared to getting up and over the hill and staying out there all day long. I used to be as fit as most, maybe more but not any longer. Age has slowed me and I need to even rethink my clothing so as to take some weight out of traditional stuff I wear.

It's been easy to accumulate a lot of heavy rifles. I have heavy rifles for target, schuetzen, varmints and long range magnums. For hunting in the North Eastern USA all I need is a light rifle. Many of my friends feel the same way now. We are fighting arthritis, overweight and sometimers as it is.

So I carried a lightweight last fall most of the time. I just got back from a friends house to see the new Kimber that he got. I dropped off some rings to fit that rifle.

As I said. I used to laugh at all the old guys under my breath. I played all the sports and ran three miles in fifteen minutes just like that. I am glad I got old. It beats the alternative.

I have a .300 Win. mag. built on a Classic action with a 24� PAC-NOR .600� muzzle dia. barrel set in a McMillan featherweight stock with a Swaroski 3-9 A-Line scope. This whole package is around 7 lbs and a little change. I have no interest or need in packing an elk hunting rifle that weighs more than this rig. I am aware of the posters that appear to be reasonably tenured elk hunters that routinely extol the virtues of heavy hunting rifles, but heavy hunting rifles just don�t work for me. No thank you�. CP.

I don't think age is an excuse, at least not yet, but I'll request that I can change my mind at some point...I'll be 70 in a couple of weeks, I try to walk a mile or two a day and I just shed 30 pounds that I got caught with in Tanzania with Saeed...Walk as much as we did and gained a ton of pounds, damn I hate good cooks...anyway its gone and I'm back in fighting shape, I am not going to get old and weak, because then I can't hunt, play golf and rope steers with my grandson...

I believe its in each of us to prevent ageing to a great degree and go 90 MPH until we drop over dead. that beats haveing some bitch nurse pushing baby food in ones mouth, especially when it carrots...

That 30 pounds should make up for my 10 lb. rifle the way I figure it and now I can pack Butches .470 all over tanzania.

I agree with Ray on this one for sure. All my hunting rifles weigh around 9 to 10 lbs. They are just more shootable in hunting situations than the lighter ones for me. That even goes for my squirrel rifles. It is easier for me to off hand a squirrel out of the top of a tree with my dads old Mossberg 46 A(b) that weighs 8 3/4 lbs. than it is my 5 1/2 lb. Anshutz.

And I agree with Ray about the bitch nurse and carrot baby food.......no man should have to endure that. Hell I wouldn't even let the daughter feed that shit to my grandson when he was a baby.

May I be half the man my grandson thinks I am...RiverRat

For you self-rightious guys that think if you can't carry a heavy rifle all day , YOU should think about staying home. I hope to God that you never get injured or the old arthritis comes to visit. I have had dislocated shoulders [from sports], 4 knee operations, and arthritis has set in. I still push myself to snowshoe a couple of miles at least once a week, and I work a physical job doing more than the guys half my age. And do you realy think you have the right to tell me I should think about staying home because a 9 lb rifle is too much for me to handle? My wife hunts with me and she has had her back broke, and has arthritis in her hips. She wants a rifle no more than 6 lbs. You tell her to stay at home. Hunting is our annual holiday, and we do it on our feet, not the seat of a pickup or a quad.

I think if you have an injury that's another story and and in this case a light rifle is a necessity, but it probably needs to be in 7x57 or something similar. In general the heavier rifle will work better from field positions and with the larger calibers you'll have a lot more fun practicing with it than you will with a 7 pound .375. A lot of the ultra light rifles were a fad and are not as common now as 10 years ago.

Besides, no one is saying what you should do. Just what thye would do if they couldn't carry a rifle heavy enough to satisfy them.
Ease up on the righteousness.
I'd love to have a lightweight job in a fast 30, maybe just under 7# loaded, but I know that's no record-breaking weight, and I also know there's lots of hunting I'd prefer something heavier for. And give me another 30 years, and I'll probably be sharing that with grandkids more than shooting it myself. "Grampa, what's a rum? I thought that was what you put in eggnog."

A most subjective topic, to be sure!

I'm a 50 year old who prefers the heavy rifle. My 375 is just over 10# field ready and s balanced very well with its 25" tube.

I have recently discovered just how important balance is with regard to carrying a rifle. My 500 NE originally weighed in at 9.75# biased heavily to the muzzle. I thought it would be a good set up to deal with the recoil.

The rifle carried poorly whether packed North American or African.

I sat down at my bench and using bean bags, determined where I wanted it to balance and made the necessary mods to achieve this. The rifle now weighs 11# and balances beautifully. Carries very well and comes up like it was part of my anatomy. The additional 1.25# are simply not felt due to the balance. The previous lighter weight, being poorly balanced, caused undue muscle strain when carrying. Conclusion: Balance is everything. (yeah, Ray, I know... you told me so!)

I don't like featherweights or whatever these 'mountain rifles' are. (I carry my rifles in the mountains?) The recoil bothers me and I don't steady them as well. That said, I have friends that love 'em and shoot them well. Different strokes, eh?

Nothing wrong with packing a 7-8lb rifle all done up if you're hiking or backpacking mostly in steep terrain. And the pack out with game on your back is easier with light rifles too. Some like the ultralight class rifles(under 6.5lbs) for this kind of hunting but I've found those rifles can be difficult to hold steady too. Everyone is different regarding this subject, no right or wrong choices here.

My latest timber thumper will weigh in right at 8lbs with sling and full mag of ammo, point like a dream using a 21"bbl and lay down some serious thump with 250gr bullets.

MtnHtr

Weight is a personal thing though I've never met anyone who liked carrying a 9lb rifle with a long barrel through steep, timbered elk country. Me, I'm a moderate and don't mind an 8-8.5 lb rifle "all-up" (scoped with rounds and sling). Too little weight can be disconcerting in dealing with recoil and thin, buggy-whip barrels aren't much for settling down. I've generally packed 8.5lb rifles all over the mountains with a full backpack and never felt burdened...

I'm with Ray on this one, my rifles tend to have 24 to 26 inch barrels, I like the feel of the standard weight rifles, and the point about being able to shoot well with it, when you are out of breath coming over the top, and you have to shoot off hand, or without laying down, etc, is alot easier if you are carrying an 8.5 to 10 Lb rifle. I am in my fifties, and have done my share of chasing muleys up and down tough mountainous country, and so far, I havent taken the step to shoot ultra light rifles.

Its funny, as I get older and less in shape, I feel more comfortable with a heavier rifle. The progression has gone from lightweight, high velocity chamberings, whippy barrled rifles to heavier rifles, larger bore diameters, lower velocities.
BigBullet

I honestly feel that a slightly heavier gun and longer barrel is easier to shoot well off hand, but yes there is trade off's. I have never owned a ligght weight high velocity rifle before, But I am imagining that in certain chamberings they would be worse to shoot than a 9 1/2 pound .416 Rigby with 410 gr woodleigh's

I don't believe on an overly heavy rifle, that's for sure, and the lightweigth ones really hold attraction for me...

But if you are going to do some serious hiking, I see better ways of ridding weigth than the rifle.

For one, there are about a millin high tech gizmos, including tents and freeze dried food that can be used to limit weight.

Probabkly the best thing to do is lose 20LBS from your gut...It's worked for me

I like a rifle all dressed up to be about 8-9 lbs, max.

I spent many years backpacking very heavy loads to isolated firelookouts in some of the roughest mountain country in B.C., before there were many helicopters available to us. I never saw a JetRanger or Hughes 500 before 1973 and some of the loads I carried were about 125 lbs, a Trapper Nelson #3 packboard, a steel 10 gallon milkcan full of creek water and a rifle. This was in the Rockies and the Purcell Mtns. of B.C. from 1965-1972 at elevations of 5000-7000 ft.

I prefer to backpack hunt and the above experience coupled with my 40 yrs. of hunting has taught me to prefer a rifle of about 8-9 lbs. I have a wide range of rifles, but, I can't shoot the light ones as well as the middle-weights, I find that the balance of a rifle is more important than the actual weight.

Man, those oversized trapper nelson's are a picture to behold... even with today's great backpacks they're about the only way to carry really insane loads (like you describe) with bulky boxed/canned stuff. I suspect you grabbed the bottom pack frame on each side with your hands to help hold the weight?... ever been in the Spatsizi country?

BA

The Trapper #3 was probably invented by a member of the Spanish Inquisition as they were the most horrible packs ever made, with one exception. This was the molded frame used by the U.S. army cica WW2. The appellation, "Dogfaces" was given to the soldiers using these, not for their tough, unshaven appearance as has been stated, but, for the grimaces of sheer agony etched upon their mugs while carrying these things! The metal ones are even worse and should be given to Sadem's supporters as military aid.

I recently purchhased my 15th high end expedition pack and I have owned and used about everything in Europe and the US-Canada market. The single best, most comfortable frame pack for huge, awkward loads I have ever found is the "Bullpac" from Idaho. This is a simple, frame pack, built to Rolex standards of quality and rather expensive to import into Canada, but, it is a work of genius in design and execution. Only the packs made by Dana Gleason and Wayne Gregory are equal in comfort and no internal pack is as versatile. I have severely damaged legs from injuries and surgical errors, this pack allows me to still backpack hunt at age 57.

I would not carry a heavy load pack in steep, slippery country by the method you prescribe as it puts one slightly off balance and thus prone to a fall. I prefer to use the pushing the front straps method and bend over more to keep my center of gravity in equilibrium; it's not fun any way you do it, though.

I spent 3 months alone in the bush with one fly-in grub trip in the Bowser Lake area in 1972, this is south of Spatsizi. I have never been in the actual Spatsizi, but, expect to get in there in the next year or two. I used to be friendly with the former boss of the B.C. Wildlife dept. who did a solo, backpack sheephunt in there when he was about my age and I will do the same. It isn't the wilderness it was 30 yrs. ago and the present government in B.C. is trying to open up our wilderness parks to the loggers-miners-oil drillers, so, we may not have even that in a few years.

My "meat pack" is an old Trailwise model 82... I've had it over 100 lbs but it ain't comfortable! I quit using external's over twenty five years ago when I switched to internal's. My first was a Synergy Works pack circa 1978. I've had most all from Gregory and Dana to Lowe and NorthFace. For the last six years I've used Osprey's almost exclusively and currently own five different models... the feel, fit and features (for me) are fantastic. As to external's, the Dana Design LoadMaster's look the best of the current crop (to me)... my speculation about the Trapper Nelson isn't based on any personal experience and I'll take your word for as to its comfort level!



A friend from here owns the outifitting rights to one area of Spatsizi... his hunts are primaily backpack hunts and it looks like fantastic country to me!



It's interesting to hear the rifle-weight question adressed by a fellow packer... I honestly have never been bothered by an 8-8.5 lb rifle. I really haven't found that shaving a pound off a rifle means much in the field. My "ounces make pounds" mentality nags me over this question but not enough to push me completely light-weight.



All the best...



BA

These are my thoughts on rifles chambered in cartridges up to the 300's.[Above this level of performance I prefer a muzzle brake and a heavier rifle for recoil absorbtion]



I think the biggest problem with many of the so called factory light weight rifles is that they are balanced poorly and handle terrible,For example Winchester Featherwights,Remington Model 7's etc.

I used to listen to the heavier 8 .5 Lb [or what ever]rifle theory that this is what a HUNTING rifle should weigh with the usual reasons, being easier to shoot when you are breathing hard etc.

{Even though your shoulder is stuffed after a carting it for 6 or 7 hours.}

This all changed when I picked up a Weatherby Ultra Light weight Accumark in 240 WBY.

It has a 24 Inch barrel,shot nice little groups,was a pleasure to take for walk and more importantly was easy to hit critters with in the paddock.

I have Moved on to an Ultra Light Arms Model 24 30-06 which is under 6 lbs all up and it is the BEST hunting rifle I have owned or used.

It has everthing I look for in a rifle that will be carried all day or carted in terrain that either goes straight up or straight back down again.

It has exceptional balance,accurate and points perfectly,I have never felt handicapped by its lack of mass.





For really long range shooting I will take my 257 or get another 30-378 but for general hunting this is the ideal rig.



Regards,

Charlie

I've never been bothered by the weight of a rifle under #10 yet, and prefer a rifle to weight at least #7 1/2. The "Ray Atkinson" theory realy holds true with me, but I'm only 33 and hoping I can honestly answer the same in another 33 years.

I primarily hunt in the east but hoofing it for the day on very cold, windy, and or snowy days, when most deer and other hunters are bedded down has been a productive strategy for me so I know how it feels to pack my rifle all day through the mountains.


What about barrel length? For most of my hunting, anything over 22" is far more cumbersom than a little extra weight.

Nothing anyone says on forums bothers me at all. I love it. Sometimes when a topic interests me I go back in and mix it up however but that's rare. This is one of those times.

There was a writer to the "American Rifleman" by the name of Jac Weller. Jac lived in NJ but hunted in the Rockies with a M70 Bull gun. That's a target rifle with a marksmans stock and a very heavy long barrel. He felt it was some kind of an advangage. The cartridge was either an 06 or a 300 HH. It does not matter to the analogy.

As I said before I used to run on my own and with the guys at the "Y". I was as good at it as anyone being very competative. Today arthritis has invaded my body just bad enough to cause one knee to give out sometimes. I am working on this and I have full medical coverage and a lot of motivation.

This is not a matter of pain. That's nothing. I played football and skied in competition. If you want to do those things then pain is part of it. Accept it.

What I mean is that if you step on a joint and your body shuts off and you fall it's another thing. Just pray that you get old rather than pass on at the normal life expectancy! I am proud and I will not hunt from a vehicle or ATV yet. So I am getting lighter rifles if you all don't mind!

Maybe I am wrong but and I stand corrected if I am, which is nothing new, but there have been a lot of posts since Hawky's that just seem to be average guys who can carry an average payload in the field. For game hunting where I want to get up and sometimes over the hill I need some relief. I hope you understand that.

I can certainly understand and empathise with the need/desire to use any piece of equipment that makes your trip more enjoyable and productive. I use a .338Win. Mag. in a medium weight rifle because I hunt alone in Grizzly country and must pack meat to where one can get a vehicle or horses; I would prefer to carry an 7-8 lb. .270, .280 or .30-06, but, these are pretty marginal in today's B.C. hunting, given our 6 pt. Elk regs., heavy cover and Grizzly problem.



Another aspect of this is the backpack one must carry. In the mountains I hunt in, only an idiot goes off the highway without top-quality survival equipment and the skill to use it. So, one starts out with a 20-25 lb. handicap and then adds the rifle. I have packed a number of 10 lb. .375s while running large forestry crews in big, bad BEAR country and find them a bit awkward, but, the 8.5 lbs. of my Dakota 76 or 9 lbs. of my pre-64 Mod. 70 Alaskans (4) in .338 are much nicer to pack, each to his own.



I am very interested in anyone who is backpack hunting in the western US-BC-Alta who has or is using an Ultra-Lite rifle in a larger caliber sharing their experiences with us.These things cost about 4 grand imported into Canada and although I am considering one, I already have a lot of fairly pricey guns I seldom shoot and I have a wife who I want to keep, so, some first hand advice would be most welcome.



I agree on the Dana Design Long Bed, at least when Gleason still owned the company, the Bullpac is even better for real gutbustin' loads, IMO. I am also looking hard at this new pack that he is building for the U.S. Navy Seal teams as they have told me that they will build it in a camo, Saddlecloth version, for those hunts where an internal is preferable to the rigid external and the noise reduction factor is appealing to me, as well.



I had two different Synergy Works expedition packs, from 76-83, I also had one of their Ventile Parkas. I was not very keen on the packs, but, the parka worked well from 40 below in the Selkirks to out on the open Pacific in a 14 ft boat. I wish I could get another one.

My post above was merely my personal thoughts but since you asked (in a round about way) I do have two ruptured disks, DDD, and arthritis in my back and shoulders. Surgury has helped my back but I still know the feeling of having my legs fold up, sending me to the ground without notice.

All that for the most part stems from a very physicaly demanding job, sorta like football, it will keep you in good shape and break you down at the same time!

It would take me much practice to accurately shoot a light rifle and I will readily admitt that,but for now the confidence of having a familure (heavy) rifle when the moment of truth comes outways the carry benefits of a light rifle.

SteveM70,

My life is quite easy compared to yours. Whatever heavy work I do is on an intermitant basis such as lifting dryway sheets for my son when he can't get help or plumbing etc which is not all that hard.

This arthritis is no joke. It seems as if my body and yours are attacking themselves. The so called medical profession still is somewhat disconnected between dispensing chemicals, surgury, mental health and holoistic remidies.

I had an MD who collected medical articles on low level non clinical depression and he was convinced that it was one of the causes of illnesses that had no other reason to attack us. He did not discuss arthritis with me at that time which was twenty years ago as I had no sign of it then. It was more of a preventive "medicine" discussion.

I have got off of my butt and started to work out on the excercise bike. This has made a big difference so far and my knees are now loose. They still hurt a little but that's nothing as long as they work. I think it's the release one gets from the workout. There is some action that happens in the body and in particular the mind when one gets the breath and heart rate up and holds it there for maybe ten minutes.

Some here have mentioned walking etc. Fine. Whatever works.

I used to think that heavy work would do the same but some of the time the heart and breathing may not get up to speed as heavy work does not always make one feel better.

It's normal for a person to jump to conclusions. This is how the mind works. It's not the scientitific method or even the socratic method but if I conclude the excersise bike works and believe it that may be enough to heal my body.

Today I am about to turn off the computer and put the Swift in the car. The old M70 weights over ten pounds what with the 26" barrel, 6-18 and Harris bipod. I am only going about half a mile one way with it and the climb is only hundreds of feet. Then there is a good chance I will fire it! Unlike big game hunting!

Nobody need start in with welcoming me to the forum. I've been here before once upon a time, but y'all changed formats and I had to reinvent myself. Maybe I should show up around these parts more often...

Anyway, this post caught my eye as I spent Saturday walking miles and miles of rugged colorado country for late season elk. The weather was beyond fridgid, the snow didn't help, I'd fogotten my sling, and my rifle weighs a full 10lbs!

My partner snickered at my oversight.

Long story short, I only regretted the absent sling when juggling gun and binoculars as I tried to glass things. I use binos a lot; but at the end of the day I was no worse for wear.

Now this is me, and here are my thoughts on the matter of rifle weight: For field accuracy, BALANCE is more important than weight for ease of carry and accuracy. Weight helps in recoil abosrption, steadiness, and control in somtimes adverse circumstances. Matching the physical capcaties of the hunter, with size/shape/calliber of the rifle, with the intended quarry, with hunting style, with the terrain to be hunted, with the skills of the hunter = the formula for the ideal rifle!

For those coping with struggles with age and injury, I admire your ambition.

I hate to say it, but, the "ideal rifle" does not exist. In the past 40 years, I have owned and used almost 100 big game rifles and I have some very nice ones now, 26 operational rifles on hand at present, more being planned on actions I have.

While the prescription given is correct in terms of what an "ideal rifle" should be, who has ever seen a real gunnut who was satisfied with just one rifle? Such a person is much too sane and may actually harbour unhealthy, liberal tendencies,(grin).

I find that my thoughts on this topic change from day to day, that's half the fun! Of course, I do not let my choice of using rifles be dictated by my offseason daydreaming, at least in Grizzly country.

I think it's all a tradeoff we make based on several factors. I'm 67 and recently purchased a Browning
Micro-medalion in .308Win. It's a cute little beggar, only 6.0 lbs. with a pencil thin 20" barrel. Damn
thing kicks like a mule. I wish I'd never seen it. I put a Pachmyer decelerator pad on it so at least I can
fire it at the range without it jumping clear of the front rest. My previous deer rifle was a Remington BDL
in 7mm Mag that weighed about 8.25 lbs. It was more accurate by far, but I felt the extra weight was too
much. For me about 7 lbs would be ideal. The ideal is already in my gun cabinet. It's a Remington Classic
in 6.5x55 that weighs 7.0 lbs., is accurate and a joy to shoot. I now use it on everything from moose on
down. What a swetheart. To each his own I guess. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

kutenaymtnboy

Ventile??? Yiiihaaa Tell me more about it. Is it good? Does this company have a website?

I know one guide in B.C. he is useing ordinary 8-9 pound 338, 358 Norma etc. He is one of those who enjoy's packpack hunts.

/ JOHAN

The fabric "Ventile" is an extremely tightly woven long fiber cotton that was, I think, initially produced for R.A.F. fighter pilots clothing during WW2. It was subsequently adapted for the parks and anoraks used by high altitude climbers in the Himalayas and so forth. I have had two of these and prefer this fabric, combined with Merino wool undergarments, or silk in warmer weather, to anything else for severe weather conditions in alpine and maritime conditions. This stuff is extremely expensive and a GOOD Gore-Tex parka will nearly equal it, so, it is up to the individual.

The last company making Ventile jackets that I know of is Barbour of the U.K., very pricey and difficult to obtain, I tried. You may also find this in German clothing, I do not have brand names. Fjallraven of Sweden may also use this, I am not sure.

Anyway, this is all a bit off-topic and that's all I can tell you. BTW, how common are those Husqvarna-Eckermann sxs double rifles in 9.3x74r in Sweden, I wouldn't mind getting one, some day.

Hey guys... please don't get all self righteous on me about waistlines (or are you referring to your self?) I'm 5'11" and about 180 and in pretty decent shape. Not bad for a nearly 50 year old.

It has been my observation over the years that pounds on your rifle are much more significant than pounds in your pack (or your waist). I've been doing a fair amount of guiding in the past few years and I find I can carry a much heavier pack and still be much less fatigued if I don't have to carry a rifle.

Try this... Put on a 20 pound pack and jog a few miles..... then the next day carry two 5 pound dumb bells on your 3 mile jog.... then tell me which was more fatiguing. If you say the pack, I'd be extremely surprised cuz it doesn't work that way with me.

And by the way... I've only taken about 4 off hand shots in the past 30 years and those were close (under 100 yards) so a rifle that "holds steady" may be less important to me than you guys who shoot off hand more frequently.