What is the upper limit for a good 270 bolt rifle with 24 inch bbl in the hands of a skilled, patient and ethical hunter? Please include range and conditions in you feedback. Thanks!

Not exactly sure what you mean by "upper limit"--type of game? Distance?

On elk, I would be selective with my shots, but for a skilled shooter with Partition or A-Frame bullets of 150-160 grains, the .270 is an elk cartridge out to 250-300 yards. On a calm day, with a good rest, further. It will kill any deer you care to name at any distance you care to shoot, and is a nasty (but heavy recoiling) varmint round.

I would never carry one for brown bears--for me, that requires a step up to something in the .338Win class or better.

I don't think Fireform is far off the mark here. The 270 is great rifle for almost anything with hooves and also an excellent varmint rifle. It has more recoil than the lighter varmint calibers certainly...but I don't think of a 270 as a "heavy recoiler"...especially with the lighter varmint bullets.

I think anything from elk on down a 270 is an excellent choice.

Anything bigger and I'd move up a to .30 cal.

I just had another thought. As much as I admire and enjoy hunting with a 270, I have to ask myself what will the 270 do that a 30/06 won't do? Answer is "nothing." But I can think of several applications where I'd rather have a 30/06...which is why so many people rate the 30/06 as the best AAR of all times.

Not that this is the case here, but it's funny how some folks submit grave warnings about shooting elk with the .270, yet those same folks are silent when someone plans to use a 7x57mm.

For the record, I don't buy the "heavier bullet" argument, either. A .270 sporting a 150- or 160-grain pill is just as much rifle (if not more) than the 7x57mm with its 160s or 175s.

Food for thought.

RSY

Sabot... I am glad you asked. The 270 is one of my most used big game rifles and I have taken many game including moose with it. A "a skilled, patient and ethical hunter" can take any game with a 270. IMO.
I guess like many I have gone through a "ballistic maturation" process sorta speak. In a nut shell... the only difference I see between the 300s and the 270s is that at longer ranges... the 300s CAN at times penetrate farther after hitting bone. I see no difference in killing power in regards to distance traveled after shot. But this goes for many calibers also.
Too me the 270 represents the smallest "serious?" rifle cartridge for deer-moose size game. By "serious" I mean... suits most peoples range requirements and most penetration requirments. Though not ideal to me... I would have NO problems shooting a brown bear with one. In fact when I lived in AK, there where many many hunts I was toting my 270 in and around brown bears, and on two occasions took moose with it.
I use mostly the 150 gr partition and the 130XFB. I dont give two hoots about the 160 gr partitions or ANY 140s, and have never been able to prove the 140s penetrated better then the 130s or that the 160 gr Nosler penetrated better then the 150. The plain jane 150 grain Hrndy is pretty serious in itself and will exit most of the time on elk broadside on both shoulders, not the knuckle (150-250 yards). The only bullets I have not played with much are the ones under 130, and thats fine by me. I should also say that the 130 grain partition is a great bullet, I have never "raked" an elk with one but I have shot them broadside with them. There can be an awfull lot of grass in an elks belly and in certain states of digestion, it can make all the difference the 130 partition might not make it . They can/do exit hogs on a lengthwise shot, but can be recovered on them to. Maybe someone with even more experiance can contribute? Rays probably shot a cape buffalo with one

Pooper(the nephew)shoots a lot of 270 ammo. Every year it seems we try a different load. He tells me his rifle won't shoot 150's. After many large holes, we setteled on the 140 grain Hornady BTSP.

What we've learned over time: there is no questioning the power of the 270; factory ammo is overated; premium bullets are desirable.

Give the 270 a 130 grain bullet at 3100+fps and no deer or antelope will be safe at any reasonably sane range. It is the weakest link in the 270. 140's at 3000fps give up nothing, and are probably the best single bullet choice. 150's and above give up some of the vaunted long range capabilities of the 270, but are effective and potent.

The power is there, just pick a premium bullet that will do the job, practice, practice, practice, and you will be successful.

The real answer to your question is skill, and only you have the answer. As others have stated, the 270 will take deer and like-sized animals cleanly at lo-ongish ranges, but massive ammounts of energy are needed to take elk and other critters in the 400#(+)class. Translated, this means 400+ yards, as energy levels drop off at longer ranges.

Pecos 45 -

I agree with you on the '06...I just wanted to see how far up the game scale the 270 could go on a reasonable basis. I don't know how many shooters know this, but muzzle brakes are VERY effective on the 270 because of the slow powders and light bullets. A 100 grain spitzer at 3500 fps is easily tamed to recoil levels below the 243 and close to the 22-250. The key is the new Rem recoil pad which takes the hit during bullet travel down the barrel. The '06 can't effectively use powders in the 4831 and R19 class with such light bullets, and one does not get there until the 165 grain weight range. These slower powders are the key to the effectiveness of the brake because there is so much gas pressure when the bullet exits the muzzle.

A 100 gr 270 has a BC of .186, same as the 125 gr '06 and 87 gr 25-06 and is not overstabilized by the 1 in 10 twist rate. It will, and does, get way out yonder with remarkable accuracy. Once you tune it up and dial it in, it gives up nothing to any of the very best varmint rounds available.

So...this is where I am coming from. I use a braked 270 for varmints and that is my most frequent use of the round. Just wondering how far up the scale one can go with such a good "varmint" set up.

[ 08-13-2003, 19:27: Message edited by: Sabot ]

Wow, a muzzle brake on a 270 for varmint hunting! Muzzle brakes are becoming more common at our club and there is no more annoying rifle to me than a 16" AR type gun with a 30 round clip and a muzzle brake. I could not get to my ear plugs fast enough when they were in the shooting case so now I carry them in my pocket so I can put them in before I get out of the car.

Of course rifles are so interesting as there are so many trade off and options. I see where a brake would reduce recoil and also muzzle rise and so that's a benefit but one that I avoid due to the noise.

Well, that about takes the cake. A *&%$#@ muzzle "bark" on a .270. What a clever way to turn a first class, classic, mild-recoiling game rifle into an obnoxious, head-pounding ear-splitter. And for what? A tad less muzzle bounce?

I guess it proves that anything can be marketed if it's hyped enough.

270 in the hands of a skilled rifleman can take any deer or antelope that the shooter desires. It is also a first class sheep and goat rifle! I personally have issues with it for anything larger, specifically elk. Loaded with premium 150gr bullets it is very much at the bottom end of the "adequate" spectrum. I've taken several elk with one and I don't care to take any more with it. I truly believe elk hunting is where a 30cal or larger definitely has the upper hand on this classic old round.

I appreciate the objections to muzzle brakes...I never use them at the range and wear double ear protection when hunting varmints.You can see the hit on a chuck, but then there is a lot to look at. I would never leave it on for big game hunting since you need to hear to know what the hell you are doing. The brake does cut recoil on my 270 with light bullets using slow powders by 70%. I can completely remove it in 15 seconds.

Packrat: You think that 140 gr. Hornady will do it's job on an elk if I do my job? I've got nearly a full box of them and am deciding on using them or a 150 gr. partition this elk season.

johnnyappleseed-
Just thought you'd like to hear what happened to one of those bullets before deciding to use them on elk. Two years ago my son shot a whopper of a mule deer from about 35yds as it trotted away from us at an angle. Bullet entered the near side on an angle and blew up halfway through the chest cavity. We found about 6 pieces of jacket and bits of lead in the nearside lung. Yep, it killed the deer alright but showed both he and I that it ain't no elk bullet!
BTW, the latest issue of RIFLE magazine has an interesting article by Ross Seyfried on boattail bullets and why they aren't as reliable on game as flat based slugs. Worth a read and some thought before choosing your elk bullets.

John S - You didn't say what weight or make of bullet your son was using. And at 35 yds, which is slightly unusual, the bullet had to still be SCREAMING. I can certainly believe your story but I've seen 150 gr 30/06 do exactly the same thing in almost identical situations.

johnnyappleseed, I do think the 140 grain Hornady will work. It is a good, tough, all around bullet that holds together. It will deliver just shy of one ton of kenetic energy at 300 yards. I don't like the Speer bullets(too soft), and the Sierra's shoot well, but are also soft. But I do think it is the only bullet one needs in a 270, unless varminting.

But when compared to the Nosler Partition, I'll take the N.P.150's every time. I'm partial to premium bullets: this is doubly true when using less than .30 calibre on tough game. The semi-spitzer 160 doesn't fly as well as the 150, but it is a terrific bullet that is too often overlooked. It is a freight train in the 270WBY with a 26" barrel.

All said and done,I'd take the 150 N.P.

P.S. I saw John's post, and that has been my experience with almost all 130's in the 270 Win. Holes you could drive a Mack truck through. I've seen deer that acted like they were struk by lightning, when infact I'd swear the 130 grain bullet failed. It could happen with the 140 at such close range. I would not be overly concerned, however, with using BTSP bullets made by Hornady: they are tough, accurate bullets

Originally posted by RSY:

quote:

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Some folks submit grave warnings about shooting elk with the .270, yet those same folks are silent when someone plans to use a 7x57mm.

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You make an excellent point here RSY! And I would take it a step further, you can find posts all over this website praising the little 6.5 X 55 as a wonderful MOOSE rifle!

Yet as you say, suggest the 270 for elk or moose and many people start scratching their heads and saying, "Well, I don't know about that!"

I haven't shot the 6.5 much, but I've owned and taken deer with 7 X 57 and I'll choose a 270 over either one of them ANY DAY of the week!

The 270 is more gun than either one by a good percentage. Which is not to throw stones at either of these two fine cartridges.

I think the bottom line is a hunter can "do it wrong" with any of these guns...and bigger ones as well!

It always comes round to the age old bit about picking the right shot, placing your bullet where it needs to be.......and having the right bullet for the job. But that "right bullet" doesn't HAVE to be 350grs or more.

If the 6.5 is a grand moose rifle, then a 270 dang sure is as well. But personally I'll put the 270 in the rack when we go above elk.

pecos45-
the 140gr bullet my son used was the 140gr Hornady...too frangible at any range under about 200yds. They will deliver some lightening bolt kills on antelope and deer with broadside shots but I'd never consider using them on elk under ANY circumstances. The 150gr Nosler is hands down the better elk bullet. I killed my first elk with that bullet in 1973, and several more after it. These days I think the 140gr Fail Safe is superior due to weight retention and better penetration.

[ 08-14-2003, 05:42: Message edited by: John S ]

John S... The story you told interests me. I have had great results with the 150 HRNDY flat base, even on elk (though nothing closer then 150 yards). I absolutly have no use for the 140s, but am now interested in sectioning the hornady 140BTSP next to the 150 to see if there is much of a difference in jacket taper, hardness of core, and overall jacket thickness.
I believe you, I have seen great bullet failures in my own 270s. One great example is winchesters power point, which I had penetrate 8" into a whitetail.

The two things that worry me about the HRNDY 150s are... that 1) I havent tried them close. and 2) They were in bad shape when recovered in elk. I think they would be fine on deer at any short range, and have never recovered one from a hog.

smallfry-
I have used Hornady bullets in various calibers for a lot of years and game but the one thing they all seem to NOT do is hold together when shots are taken at close range. I used to love their 130gr flat base in the 270, it would just flatten antelope and deer while leaving fist sized exit holes.....as long as the range was 150yds or more. Same for their 30cal bullets in 180gr from my 300mag. Up close is a whole 'nother ball game! For my own use and that of my son I have quit their products, and those damned Nosler Ballistic Tips for this reason. I can't predict at what range we will get to take an animal, sometimes it's at spittin' distance and next time it's 300yds. There are better bullets, they're called Nosler partitions or Fail Safes or North Forks or Swifts. They're better because they stay together at 30yds or 300yds. I like that.

All in all a .270 is about as good as it gets as a Deer Sheep and Pronghorn cartridge. That says a lot right there. With some of the really good bullets that are around, Elk and most of Africa's plains game would not be out of the question. For years my load of choice in the .270 has been what Jack O'Conner loaded a 130 gr Bullet and old 4831. But old 4831 is gone and I been using IMR-4831 around 57 grs. with either a 130 gr Speer SP or Nosler Partition. If I was going to re do my loads for the 270. I'm the kind of fellow that finds one good load and stick with it. I would go to a good 140 gr. Flat Base bullet. I think that you could shoot for the rest of your life 140 gr Fail Safes for every thing and be a very happy camper. As for range, I like to keep my shots on the inside of 300 yds. With a resonable 200 yard spot on zero. My 270's shoot well enough and I shoot them well enough that a 350 yard while its getting out there , is doable on Mule deer size game. And yep I would hunt Elk with a 270, make note I said hunt.