Gentlemen,

I've shot and loaded for a few 350 Rem Mags w/ 1-16" twists and usually settle on 225PTs. I've ordered a factory Ruger w/ the faster 1-12" twist to hopefully use for heavy bullets only for close range bears. I was looking at the Woodleigh 250RN SN(weldcores) at maybe 2400-2500fps but have no experience w/ this bullet. Anyone out there work up a good load w/ this bullet in the 350 or maybe one of the other 35s near this velocity in a fast twist barrel? I'd appreciate any help getting me in the right direction.

Thanks,
Gary

Since you will have a 1-12" twist, do yourself A BIG FAVOR, and FORGET THE WOODLEIGHS!!!

Go with Northfork Bullets. Your 1-12" twist will stabilize their 270 grainer, if you want to go that big.

quote:

Originally posted by woodsracer:
Since you will have a 1-12" twist, do yourself A BIG FAVOR, and FORGET THE WOODLEIGHS!!!

What is your basis for the woodleigh thumbs down?

I'll consider the 270NF but I had thought they were designed for a much higher velocities than the 350RM can afford. I may also look at the Swift 280 A-Frame as it is actually shorter than the NF but I'm unsure if it will work at 350RM/35Whelen velocities either.

I had thought a 250grain bullet would stabilize well w/ the 1-12" twist and I was looking at the Woodleigh because it is short and has the highest SD in its class. Also, it is designed to perform at 350RM/35Whelen velocities. But, I've never loaded it so it may not work.

Thanks,
Gary

quote:

Originally posted by GaryVA:

quote:

Originally posted by woodsracer:
Since you will have a 1-12" twist, do yourself A BIG FAVOR, and FORGET THE WOODLEIGHS!!!

What is your basis for the woodleigh thumbs down?

I'll consider the 270NF but I had thought they were designed for a much higher velocities than the 350RM can afford. I may also look at the Swift 280 A-Frame as it is actually shorter than the NF but I'm unsure if it will work at 350RM/35Whelen velocities either.

I had thought a 250grain bullet would stabilize well w/ the 1-12" twist and I was looking at the Woodleigh because it is short and has the highest SD in its class. Also, it is designed to perform at 350RM/35Whelen velocities. But, I've never loaded it so it may not work.

Thanks,
Gary

Woodleighs are WAY TOO SOFT (both the lead and the jacket), IMHO. Tried a few through my .416 Rigby and they looked like a .54 cal slug out of my muzzle loader during some bullet tests that I did and with much less penetration than the other two mentioned below. I can't personally say that I recommend them.

When I mentioned the 270 grainer, I was just trying to point out that it would stabilize with your twist. I have a 1-14" twist in my .35 Whelen, and I wish that I had a 1-12" twist for more stability at longer range. I did say "if you want to go that big."

If you want a 250 grainer, I'd use either a 250gr. NF or a 250gr. Barnes TSX. Both can be used down to Whelen velocities.

BTW, I almost exclusively shoot Barnes X bullets.

The main reason that I recommended the Northforks is that you seemed to be looking for a Premium lead cored bullet.

Speer's Mag-Tips and Grand Slams are also good lead-cored bullets. Speer makes a 250 gr., .358 cal Grand Slam. I haven't tested any Grand Slams in my Whelen, but the Mag-Tips sure work well in my Rigby. Just a bit more of my $0.02.

I think Woodleigh revamped their .416 bullets a few years ago. I remember reading about it on their web site. The newer .416 softs have a thicker jacket. They were receiving complaints about them being too soft, IIRC.

I've had excellent results with Woodleigh RN bullets on African plains game. Complete penetration on Kudu, Gemsbok, Red Hartebeest, Warthogs, etc.

I've used the following Woodleigh bullets in these cartridges (all handloads) on African plains game:

.30-06 - 220 gr RN at 2460 fps
8x57JS - 220 gr RN at 2400 fps
9.3x62 - 286 gr RN at 2390 fps

All three loads worked great. Woodleighs probably won't penetrate consistently as much as a Barnes X or a Fail Safe (I've never used either) but I've found them to be an excellent hunting bullet. I've been very pleased with their performance.

Personally, I think the .35 caliber 250 gr Woodleigh RN would work just fine out of the .350 Rem Mag for bear. (GaryVA, are you talking about black bear?) I have a new Rem Model 700 CDL in .35 Whelen. I plan to work up some loads for it with the 250 gr Woodleigh RN. I just haven't gotten around to it. However, my 9.3x62 is very similar and the 286 gr Woodleigh RN bullets work great in it.


CZ 550 in 9.3x62 using the 286 gr Woodleigh RN at 2390 fps
Complete penetration on a slightly quartering away shot. The bullet hole visible is the exit hole. Range was approximately 145 yards.

My two cents....
-Bob F.

GaryVA,
The current crop of Ruger's in 350RemMag have a 1:16" twist dont they??? Mine likes the 250gr RN Woodleigh accuracy wise, but getting it to feed is going to require 'smithing work. At 350RemMag velocity, it should be a great projectile.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
GaryVA,
The current crop of Ruger's in 350RemMag have a 1:16" twist dont they??? Mine likes the 250gr RN Woodleigh accuracy wise, but getting it to feed is going to require 'smithing work. At 350RemMag velocity, it should be a great projectile.
Cheers...


Con

Con,

To the best of my knowledge all of the 350RM Rugers being sold now were actually built way back in 2003-2004 when they were first announced but not made available. I do not think Ruger is actually building them now and they will probably be no more once their inventory is sold. Mine was ordered yesterday and yet in hand but those I've examined so far were all 1-12" twist. If anyone has a current stainless version w/ 1-16"twist speak up but I've yet to see one.

As far as the mag box goes, the current Rugers I've handled were long and you could seat the bullet out beyond SAMMI 2.8". If needed, one could easily modify the box to feed longer but I didn't think this would be necessary if using a 250gr bullet that has a round nose and a flat base and you are loading for 2400 - 2500fps. Are you saying this is not correct??

Gary

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:

Personally, I think the .35 caliber 250 gr Woodleigh RN would work just fine out of the .350 Rem Mag for bear. (GaryVA, are you talking about black bear?) I have a new Rem Model 700 CDL in .35 Whelen. I plan to work up some loads for it with the 250 gr Woodleigh RN. I just haven't gotten around to it. However, my 9.3x62 is very similar and the 286 gr Woodleigh RN bullets work great in it.

-Bob F.

Yes, the main purpose is for a fast handling 350RM to shoot Black Bears at point blank range in thick cover that are charging in on a predator call. After three nice bears in the past four years at point blank range I've decided to dedicate one 350RM to heavier bullets. Cats will also come in on a rip and a tear which is another reason I like the 350RM for this.

Thanks

In the past year I have loaded 225gr and 250 gr loads for my ruger, and my rem with a-frames, woodleigh, partitions, and northforks. Triple shocks would not load due to the long nose, not filling the neck at the crimp. The biggest problem with 250gr bullets is getting the full load of powder to fit under the bullet. I have pictures of the rounds fired into my test media box. the a-frame has a good small dia mushroom, holds its weight and should be a great penatrater. The woodleigh has a large mushroom, is the shortest (most room for powder), and holds its weight. The northfork has good mushroom, holds its weight, and is very accurate, might have to use ball powder to get the full charge in. I've used 5 powders. lee factory crimp. E-mail and I will try to find the photos. dan@farrknives.com
I have settled on the 225gr northfork and 4895 for now. I think the woodleigh would hit very hard.

Also chrony'd many loads in the Ruger

Dan

quote:

Originally posted by farrknives:
I've used 5 powders. lee factory crimp. E-mail and I will try to find the photos. dan@farrknives.com
I have settled on the 225gr northfork and 4895 for now. I think the woodleigh would hit very hard.

Dan

Thanks!! E-mail sent to you

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:
I think Woodleigh revamped their .416 bullets a few years ago. I remember reading about it on their web site. The newer .416 softs have a thicker jacket. They were receiving complaints about them being too soft, IIRC.

-Bob F.

That's good to know!!!

I am currently having another 358 Win built and I speced a 1:14 barrel because that's what I have on my custom Sako in 358 Win. I don't shoot bullets heavier than 225 and it seems to work great. Will a 1:14 work for 250s at 358 Win velocities?

woodsracer,

I dug this up using http://web.archive.org/

It's part of Woodleigh's home page back in 2001.



Cheers!...
-Bob F.

Now that's a HUGE difference! COOL search engine too!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Lou:

Will a 1:14 work for 250s at 358 Win velocities?

That's probably pushing things a bit. In the Hornady Handbook, they listed 250gr loads for a .358 Win with a 1-12" twist.

Thanks, I may ask them to change it. Lou

Well, just to throw a log on the fire, my Ruger 77 in .358 has a 16" twist and stabilizes the Hornady 250 gr.SP-IL quite well. I assume it will stabilize the Round Nose version as well. Know this is counter to conventional wisdom for the twist, but felt it necessary to ask if you've tried the Hornady RN-IL in your .350 Mag. It's tough enough for bears, elks, pick-ups...whatever.

If all else fails what's the problem with the Partitions in either 225 or 250 grains? Thinkin' there is a lot of discussion here tending to embellish black bears with Kevlar armor or something like that... If a Partition won't do the trick get yourself an RPG.

quote:

Originally posted by DigitalDan:
Well, just to throw a log on the fire, my Ruger 77 in .358 has a 16" twist and stabilizes the Hornady 250 gr.SP-IL quite well. I assume it will stabilize the Round Nose version as well. Know this is counter to conventional wisdom for the twist, but felt it necessary to ask if you've tried the Hornady RN-IL in your .350 Mag. It's tough enough for bears, elks, pick-ups...whatever.

If all else fails what's the problem with the Partitions in either 225 or 250 grains? Thinkin' there is a lot of discussion here tending to embellish black bears with Kevlar armor or something like that... If a Partition won't do the trick get yourself an RPG.

To make sure I'm on track, you are refering to the older (now discontinued) Ruger 77 350RM as being 1-16" twist not the current run of All Weather mkIIs in 350RM, correct?

I do use 225PTs now in a Remington 350RM which are good all around bullets and they do add a bit of effective range due to their shape (BC) and they do perform well. I actually like the PTs and think of them as a step up in performance, but I prefer simple roundnose flatbased bullet that will open up at standard velocities when I'm only shootin a very short distance. The weldcores may be little different than the RN Hornady other than I'd prefer the bonded core when hitting bone.

Thanks

Gary,

Some information on twist rates and the Greenhill Formula that you may find interesting:

http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/July01.htm

Also, I used to have a Ruger M77 Mk II in .35 Whelen. (The Mk IIs in .35 Whelen were a special run for Davidson's a few years ago.) It had a 1-16" twist. It stabilized 250 gr Hornady round nose and spire points just fine. I think the 1-16" twist in the .35 Whelen and .350 Rem Mag only really becomes an issue when trying to shoot .35 caliber bullets heavier than 250 grains; especially 300+ gr bullets. But, I never tried anything heavier than 250 grs in my rifle. (I haven't found time yet to work with my new Rem Model 700 CDL in .35 Whelen.)

-Bob F.

quote:

you are refering to the older (now discontinued) Ruger 77 350RM as being 1-16" twist

No, it is a .358 Winchester. Yes, it is a 1:16 twist.

GaryVA,
Ruger doesn't list the twist rate on their website but I assumed its 1:16". Your right! I measured it twice and its 1:12" Looks like I will give the Woodleigh 310gr a run in it just for fun. Mine shoots the Woodleigh 250gr very well for an untuned out of the box rifle... much better than the 225gr Nosler PT. I've heard some Ruger 350RemMags may baulk at feeding RN projectiles and mine is certainly one of those. Both Remington 200gr and the Woodleigh refuse to feed from the right side of the magazine.
Cheers...
Con

Dr Lou,
My 358Win is fitted with a 1:14" and it shoots the 250gr Woodleigh just fine. When I can work out a load and find some time, I'm going to see whether I can squeeze 2000fps from the 310gr Woodleigh in this cartridge.
Cheers...
Con

Everyone, thanks for the info. I spoke with Casey at Pac-Nor this morning and he assured me that the 1:14 would stabilize a 250 with no problem. Con, although I don't plan to shoot anything heavier than 225s, I would be interested to know if a 1:14 twist will stabilze bullets heavier than 250 grains

The Ruger All-Weather 350RM was delivered. I took it apart and gave it a good inspection.

Serial number is a "790" prefix and was manufactured in 2004. So as I said before, I don't think Ruger is actually building them anymore but only selling off their inventory.

Barrel is 22", 6-groove w/ 1-12" twist. The mag box will easily take cartridges up to 2.900" and appears that it has room to be modified to take and feed a bit longer than that. My particular mag box slightly binds when the action screws are torqued and needs a bit of hand fitting.

One thing I noticed about mine is that the box holds 4 down (one more than advertised). Mine will feed from the box w/ four down but there is not quite enough room to clear the belt to get the 5th round on top. It appears that I could easily remove a slight amount of material from the bottom of the follower to make it feed and function loading 4+1 for a total of 5 rounds.

Out of box weight is 6-pounds 15-ounces w/ an overall lenth of 42". The trigger pull has a very slight amount of creep but otherwise very crisp w/ no overtravel. It breaks cleanly at 6-pounds 8-ounces. I can easily get this trigger where I want it.

Fit and finish is pretty good for a production line rifle w/ the exception of the magazine box needing some additional fitting. The factory synthetic stock appears to be more than suitable for a hunting handle.

I'm going to recess the crown, install sights and try out some 250gr loads. I'm shooting for 30-31 KO Value w/ 200 yard KE above 2000ft/lbs and reasonable accuracy. I'll post my results.

Thanks,
Gary

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Lou:
Everyone, thanks for the info. I spoke with Casey at Pac-Nor this morning and he assured me that the 1:14 would stabilize a 250 with no problem. Con, although I don't plan to shoot anything heavier than 225s, I would be interested to know if a 1:14 twist will stabilze bullets heavier than 250 grains

1:14 should be good to about 275 grains, if you're going bigger than that, a 1:12 would be a better choice.

Some of the replies are backwards thinking to me. If a bear is coming in to a call, extreme penitration is not what you need. I've broke bears shoulders with 150 grn corloks in a .308 and 130's in a .270 and recovered the bullets under the skin on the off side.
I've used a Rem 700 classic 350 since they first came out. 1-16 twist, but a long throat. I shoot 250 Horn rn, old speer rn, barnes original and speer spitzers with the nose filed off flat with the jacket to seat them out farther. IMR 4895 and the 250's at 2610 fps. I've shot alot of deer, bear and moose with those loads and they just go flop. A called bear you want a good bit of expansion to mush him up good, who cares if it ends up in the back ham or not? Go with the woodlieghs, or any of the ones I mentioned, they wont let you down.