Does anyone have any information on how well this cartridge is selling? Is its future absolutely secure?

I find the choice of available ammuntion rather dissappointing. Because of this, I half regret having invested in this round. That said, I think it is the absolute perfect whitetail deer round where extreme long distance is not required. My wife owns 2, and I own 1. Mine is a full-custom rifle, my pet deer rifle. Probably should have made it a .308.

Mike,



The reloading die makers keep and sometimes release the die sale records for various calibers. This could be the source for facts about the 7mm-08's popularity you are looking for.



I called RCBS and the last chart they had handy was from 2002 and the 7mm-08 was ranked 21st so I guess you have nothing to worry about.

No offense, but your comments didn't answer my question. I do reload, and I am aware of every factory round that is available, thanks to the internet.

Many major mail order companies that sell huge quantities of ammo carry only limited selections of 7mm-08. This indicates to me that they are not selling much of it.

I have not been able to improve on Federal's Premium 140 gr Nosler Partion load. But I'm wondering how long Federal will continue to make this particular load. Especially if suppliers are not stocking it.

There have been many great rounds discontinued over the years. My concern is that the 708 could be one of them in the future, especially with the hysteria over the new short magnum rounds. Or, even if 708 is not discontinued, it could become available in only 1 or 2 loads. Remington has already discontinued their 154 grain load, they have only 1 load available, and this round is their baby.

I don't want to own an orphan round, not matter how good it is. There are too many good alternatives.

Mike, I'm having trouble understanding your reasoning. I doubt that the 7-08 is going by the way side for a long while but even IF factory ammo were to get scarce why not just reload for it and be happy with having, as you stated, the perfect whitetail round!?

I think you will see some of the short mag gone before the 7-08 but do think alot of interest in the 7-08 has died off. When I was shooting a 7-08 about 15 yrs ago ammo was always hard to find and bet now almost impossible to walk in and buy a box. I also shot a shorten version of the 7-08 called 7x47 kind of got rid of the extra case capacity. I also think things go in cycles who knows when new shooter will rediscover the 7-08. I don't think any of us can really say what the future hold for the 7-08. When the 7-08 first came out and think it's like the 260 you had to order one. When I lived in calif it was great for local deer but not my chioce when moved to Colorado. Well good luck!

I could go online right now and buy every load combination the factories make, or go out the door and between 2 local shops find about 10 different loads. I think your just not shopping around enough.

OK, I guess I'm getting grouchy in my old age. I know I can reload, and I know I can find factory ammo. I don't want to get into my gun owning philosophy, my purchasing habits, my reloading experience, or my life history. Good grief, all I want to know is the original question: Does any one know how 7mm08 sales are doing?

I promise to give everyone opportunities to give me patronizing lectures in the future, but for now, I'm just looking for some facts.

That is interesting information Kevin. Thanks!

21st place is pretty good.

Well Mike, I don't think anybody was "patronizing" you.

No, I don't have exact sales numbers, nor do I much care.

The answers that you got all said that the 7mm-08 is a sound cartridge, with a secure future, and ammo is readily available.

I guess you're upset because nobody came back and said "Remington sold 453,974 boxes of 140's last year, Federal sold 325,857 boxes, etc, and the major manufacturers will be producing x-number of rounds and rifles for each of the next 20 years...".

So, to your "original" question of "Good grief, all I want to know is the original question: Does any one know how 7mm08 sales are doing?"... I'd say "good".

Happy?

If you reload you can make all the ammo you want by resizing 308 cartridges, and .243. I shoot two of these really neat rifles. I know of people that have never bought a 7mm-08 round that shoot them all the time. Just make sure you trim the resized round to spec. I bought a bunch of boxes cheap when total sports went out of business in Austin Texas. My own walkaround load for my Model 70 compact is 42 grains of H4350 and a 175 grain Hornady pointed soft point. 2350 fps, and is for short range hog hunting.

ColdBore, your original answer, and those of Tom Holland and MikeTheBear were all thoughtful answers.

SteveM70 says: "I'm having trouble understanding your reasoning". Jay Gorski says: "you either need to start reloading or do some shopping". KevinNY says: "you just aren't shopping enough".

You would think that I was attacking the 708, even though my first post stated I thought it was the best whitetail cartridge. Those comments do nothing to answer my question of how 708 sales were doing. They only imply that there is something wrong with my thinking or my buying ability.

You even saw fit to tell me that you "didn't care" how many sales of 708 ammo there was. I guess I knew you didn't care or you would have already posted the question yourself. I guess I do care, since I asked. In fact, you say you "don't know the exact sales numbers". Does this imply that you know "approximate sales numbers"? If you do, I would love to hear them. In fact, when you say "sales are good", do you know that, or is it an opinion?

21st on reloading die list is helpful. It would probably be even more helpful to know if that position was increasing or declining. What would be great would be for a dealer to say "15% of my bolt action sales are 708". It would tell me something if a dealer said "they sold great for awhile, but now I can't get rid of them", or "they sold great until the .260 came out".

Apparently, not many people care about this question. I have an inquiring mind and would like to know. Personally, I think we could all learn something from this post. It could be an education to learn similar stats from a long list of cartridges, especially newer ones. I think its a shame that manufacturers of rifles don't give out imformation on percentage breakout of all calibers.

"I think its a shame that manufacturers of rifles don't give out imformation on percentage breakout of all calibers"

How many manufacturers of ANY product give out that kind of info?

I guess the simple, straight forward, answer to your question is that no one except perhaps the Remington marketing department knows the precise answer. Several folks tried to give you some insight...that's probably the best anyone here can do.

Incite is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm sure that there are some people using this forum that can provide some answers besides KevinNY and RCBS. All it would take is a clerk at a gun sales counter with some curiosity, a person in charge of ordering inventory for Cabelas or Bass Pro, a firearms distributor, an employee at Midway, Dillon, Mid-South, a gunwriter with a good friend in the industry, etc.

This is not a rocket-science question. This should be a very good forum to garner some information of this kind, because you obviously aren't going to get it from Remington. Apparently the gun magazines don't want to provide this info either, so what better forum to learn from than right here?

I think that if people didn't get the idea that I was somehow attacking their favorite cartridge, or that some information was going to come out that was unfavorable to their pet, this question would have been better received.

Mike:

Fair enough, sounds like what would satisfy you is some "quantitative" data. Hope some clerk will help you out.

Meanwhile, I think the reason that you might not have gotten answers that satisfy you is that your questions seem confusing or there seem to have alternative solutions.

If you feel it's a "perfect round for whitetails" and you already have a a 7-08 and you are a reloader, then most people would not worry whether the round is a commercial success, since reloading will always be an option.

If the choice of available ammo is dissapointing, but you have found one choice that works, you can always stock up on that product.

And the obvious answer to "is its future ABSOLUTELY secure" is no. But several have answered that, based on their observations, that it is likely to be ok for a long time.(and I'm not sure that data from one or 2 sales clerks would be any more valid).

Lastly, if, in fact, you really "don't want to own an orphaned round", then sell your rifle and get a 308 or 30/06.

I have a M70 Featherweight in 7mm-08 and I think it is my favorite deer rifle, with the 257R running a close second. The 257 has been around for 70+ years, so I doubt the 7mm-08 is in much danger.
Another point is that at the local gun shops, when a 7mm-08 hits the shelves, if it is in any kind of decent shape, it's gone before ANY other caliber, except it's stablemate the .308. Those two calibers are without a doubt the top sellers in deer rifles around here. You had better act fast and have money in hand if either one hits the shelves in the local gun shop where I volunteer. Even though the .270 and 30/06 are great guns, and I have and '06 I love, they simply do not sell like the '08s do.

Mike, if you are really concerned, then why not contact Federal, Remington, etc. & aske THEM how many boxes of 7-08 ammo they sold last year? Tell them you are writing an article on deer cartridges & want some info. I'll just bet someone in sales will offer you what you are looking for.
I would think the 7-08 is more popular in the deer camps than the .280 & there are still enough co. making rounds that you should be happy for awhile.

Go here 7mm-08 and look up each set of reviews where you see the stars. Look at the number of posts, the quantities of brass ordered, and the dates. This should give you an idea as to the current appeal of the cartridge.

It will die an agonizingly quick death just as soon as the major arms manufacturors release their new 7mm X 57mm factory rifles to which the 7-08 can not hold a candle. roger

That's a tongue in cheek good point though, the 7x57 is alot older & even though there are few new factory rifles available, you can still get factory ammo. I shoot alot of wildcats so availability of factory ammo is never a factor.

The 7mm-08 will be a dead duck as soon as my 7mm-08.5 pagrismaster hits the marketplace this fall. With its non-existent recoil, 8000fps muzzle velocity and its arrow-straight trajectory from 0 to 10,000 yards, ammunition factories will soon convert all of their production capability to this new wonder cartridge and Wal-Mart will stock it and only it.

Now excuse me, but it's time for my medicine .......

(The 7mm-08 will be around a lot longer than any of us will be, IMHO. Enjoy it.)

I shoot a left handed Browning Stainless Stalker in 7-08. I do reload but have no problem finding factory ammo. Gander Mountain sells all kinds.
My favorite factory load is Federal 140gr. Ballistic Tip, it has taken many deer and two bull caribou.
My reloads use 139gr. sst Hornady, dead nuts accurate with IMR 4895

Cartridge survival is a legitimate concern for anyone. I don't know which is worse, Remington or Winchester. Both companies have been deliberately cutting their lines of ammo, brass, and bullets over the years. Consider the 300 Savage, 35 Remington, 30-40 Krag, 35 Whelen, 8 mm Rem Mag. Neither company sells 338 bullets.

Now all of a sudden they are proliferating cartridges all over the place. An it is my perception that the Rem short ultra mags are going nowhere. The super short Win 223 and 243's heat up barrels so fast they are almost impractical for repeated firing such as prairies dogs and the like. The 300 Rem U Mag has way too much recoil for what it does. The 375 Rem U Mag is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and African hunters want controled feed that Rem 700's don't provide. If you're going to have that much recoil, you're usually better off going up in bullet diameter--416 in this case. But Rem appears to have thrown in the towel on the 416 Rem. Again the push feed problem and too small a case, too high a pressure, jammed into too short and action just like Win did with the 458 Win.

One of these days, maybe a year or two from now, these companies will look at the inventory monster they have created and start cutting the line again. Don't get caught with a cartridge whose case cannot be made from something else likely to survive.

At least the 260 Rem and 7-08 can be easily made from 308 Win which will be with us for another hundred years, or until peace reigns on earth. Don't count on the latter.

I certainly would not get rid of my 7-08. But I am begining to worry about my 8 mm Rem Mag--one fine elk cartridge.

I no longer have a 7mm-08 but I reload for my buddy's. As long as the 308 Winchester stays alive and well we will have brass for the 7mm-08

By selling your 7mm08 and buying a 270 Winchester you will not only stop worring about the death of a factory cartridge, but also will support my cause .

What Smallfry sez is true. Then you wouldn't be having silly arguments about which is best the 7-08 or the 7x57. You could have really serious arguments about the .270 and the .280.
I currently own three 7-08's. I also, for some unknown reason, bought 1000 308 cases even tho I've never owned a .308. 7mm bullets will be around forever and, if not, I guess I'll have to learn to cast my own bullets. Thus the viability of the round is of little concern to me. I just think its the only rifle a fellow would need for hunting east of the Big River.
I know this doesn't answer your question but I do think your angst is ill founded.

What a breath of fresh air, I'm finally getting some good posts with thoughtful answers. The first posts seemed more interested in being critical than in being helpful.

I'm 54 and I find that I have less and less time for reloading. My life gets more hectic every year. Though I love reloading, when I get some free time, I'd rather hunt or shoot.

In spite of olarmy's advice, I'm not about to sell my 7mm08. I thought I made it clear that I believed it to be the best whitetail round available. I've invested several thousand dollars in a full custom rifle in this caliber.

I did own a .280 at one time and sold it because it was so difficult to get ammo. If you go on a hunting trip, forget/lose/get stolen/airport problem, your ammo, you need to find a store with factory ammo.

I really hope this doesn't happen to the 708, but if it does, a rebarrel job would be quite easy on a bolt action rifle.

I still think it was a valid question, and I do have a consensus developing in this thread by many that the round is probably doing OK. A little knowledge beats sitting in the dark, doesn't it? Strong opinions aren't much good when they are not based on evidence.

In controdiction of my last reply Final answer )

1. If you are 54 you probably will have passed on before the 7-08 and than your concern has no validity.

2. Before the finality occurs for you or the cartridge, you will get in the 60+ catagory and if your priorities straighten out you will find a lot more time to reload rather than make enough money to support your expensive gun habit.

3.I'm sure that Groverner Woytkins & Ned Roberts had similar concerns.

4. You certainly present a spirited post.

roger

Roger (bartsche), your 4th comment was very generous. Or should I say "tactful".

Really, I'm not normally an obnoxious person at all. I think I got irritated because I did not ask for any advice. I wanted to know how "healthy" the 7mm08 was. That is all I wanted to know. That is all. At the age of 54, and having been an AVID gun reader and gun practioner for 40 years, I have opinions that are firmly entrenched.

The last thing I need is for some greenhorn or opinionated-as-me gun-nut, telling me I need to reload / shop more / sell my guns / or that I'm crazy. I'm doing what I want to do, and as much as I'm able, right now.

I Just Wanted To Know How Well The 7MM-08 Remington Was Doing !!!

My biggest mistake was trying to explain WHY I wanted to know. If I'd left that off, there would have been no problem. I apologize to everyone for being such a jerk, however, I'll admit that I kinda like myself the way I am!

First of all you were not a jerk.

There were those that were trying to make you look unlearned in a field which they consider themselves to be expert.Makes em feel big I guess. I am guilty of trying to have a little fun at your expence and displeasure.

Your reaction was understandable and most on this forum, who are stought hearted lads,will agree you owe no apology. I'm a 7x57 kind of guy but if someone had given me a 7-08 I'm sure I would have enjoyed it. roger

I am having Pac-Nor rebarrel a Model 700 in 7mm-08 as we speak.

Given my predilection for buying and hoarding components, if I were the only 7mm-08 shooter in the world it's future is still pretty secure.

Okay, seriously - I have no empirical data but when did that ever stop the spouting of an opinion? My take is that it will never be at the same popularity level as the .243, .308, .270, .30-06 et al, but since it is in the "middlin'" range like those others it will continue to be with us for a long time.

As a previous poster has suggested, it will probably wax and wane like the .257 Bob (a current "darling" among some) or even the .280 Remington. That one almost died for a while then back in the mid to late eighties it was the most popular caliber for custom rifle makers and now you can't hardly find a new rifle so chambered. Heck - I've been a gun nut/rifle loony since the early sixties and I only started seeing 6.5X55's in the last few years. That one was pretty moribund outside of a small circle for a long, long time, now it's chambered in at least two big name maker's rifles that I know of.

Bottom line - the 7mm-08 is a modern cartridge loaded to it's full pressure potential, "inherently accurate" whatever that means, suitable for medium to large game, and works in a short action. Barring the sudden popularity of plasma rifles in the 40 watt range, I think it will be with us at least through our grandchildren's lives.

This thread has been very interesting to me. I've been gathering info for the purchase of a very light weight brush gun for eastern whitetail. I'm wrestling with matching the right SS or Ti gun and cartrige. I one of those that find the M.7's brl. is too light so I'm now considering a Rem. Model 700 Ti in 7mm08 or .260, or a Browning A-bolt SS or Ti in 243 or 25 WSSM. I've got a Model 700 and an A-Bolt and I like them both. I'm tempted by the WSSM because the shorter action can make the gun lighter and I suppose stiffer, but I doubt if action stiffness would really matter much inside 200 yrds. The trade offs seem to boil down to ammo availablilty vs. lighter weight. I don't reload so I tend to lean toward the Rem.

I understand the concern about possibly being stuck with an "orphaned" cartridge. Just ask the people who still own the 5mm remington rifles. (And maybe some of the people buying the .17 HMR rifles in a few years) Another way to analyze the future availability of a cartridge is to check to see how many gun manufacturers are offering the caliber in question. The 7mm-08 is being chambered by Ruger, Remington, Browning, Howa, Savage and Winchester, not to mention the smaller manufacturers. If you are considering a .250 Savage, forget about it, unless you special order it. The .257 Roberts is offered by Ruger, but good luck finding one in any other manufacturer. The .260 Remington is available from Remington and Ruger, but isn't offered by Winchester or Savage. I figure those cartridges are in more in danger of extinction than the 7mm-08. I just bought a Model 70 Super Shadow in .270 Winchester Short Magnum. Mainly because I had always wanted a short action .270. I would have been just as happy with a 270 based on the .308 Winchester case, but figured why not get the extra performance, too. I had a 7mm-08 a few years ago, and it never shot as well as I felt it should have, so I traded it off. If I could find a good deal on a new 7-08, I would consider one for my boys, but my 15 year old prefers my short mag with its' nice Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad and hodgdon youth loads to a friends 7-08 Model 70 lightweight carbine. I hope my .270WSM will be around for years to come. I guess if it looks like it is declining in popularity, I will just lay in 1000 rounds of brass for it and I should be able to enjoy shooting it for the rest of my life. As for factory ammo availability, I would never hunt with a rifle that I had not worked up the load for and carefully sighted in with it. And I would have enough of that load with me for any eventuality. But that's me.