The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles `The .308 !Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
300 savage is a great round too ! I think the shoulder is a bit steep for a machine gun. So we have the .308. It is just a little hotter Not enough to matter. I have had a few in the past. But .308 is a bunch more practical now. as in easy to find brass and or ammo. I would be glad to get my hands on a nice 300 savage in a light carbine with a nice old lyman type peep sight. ...tj3006 | |||
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My opinion on opinions. Years ago when I was in my 30's my doctor asked me what brand of rifle to buy. Owning a Ruger MKII at the time and not overly impressed and I told him to get other opinions other from hunters. 6 months later I asked what he had learned and his research concluded: What ever you own is the best SOB out there. Calibers are the same way, I basically have always went with conventional rounds. .223, 22.250, 6mm, .308, 30-06 and the amazing but unconventional 7mm STW. Now I only have .223's and .308's. I don't hunt anything larger than deer and many of you have gathered a wealth of hunting information on what works for you in your hunting areas over the years. I do target shoot out to 300 yards and these two calibers work great. He were go, my opinion: I think the .308 is up to every task in Kansas and Oklahoma where I hunt. Great round, superbly accurate and mild to shoot. The final opinion, I am not going to bash any ones calibers and I am sure that your calibers are the best SOB's out there.  | |||
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The .308 was a natural evolution for medium caliber military arms and in that regard was, and is, a better round than the .30-06. It also happens to be a fantastic sporting round, no question. But from my position, in the sporting arms world, actual and undeniable function often falls to about 4th or 5th place behind nostalgia and personal desire (where personal desire usually occupies at least 2 of the top 3 places). And while the .308 has spawned many successful variants, I still think the .30-06 is the king in this regard. Perhaps not so much with bullets below .25 caliber, but definitely on the larger caliber end of the spectrum. That's also why I think the .30-06 will always be the 'better' cartridge, because it has so many useful variants in the medium bore, non-magnum, spectrum. So for me, the .308 is a nice to have, but not a need to have cartridge. | |||
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35whelenman, Your spot on..I consider my .308 a wonderful gun for deer with the 150 gr. bullet, and I know the 30-06 is better with a 180, 200 and 220 gr. bullet for elk. I know the 180 Nosler, and better yet the 200 gr. Nosler will shoot through an elk lengthwise with a 30-06, and in the thick swampy black timber of Idaho you had better be willing and able to take that shot..I'm not comfortable with that shot with my .308 as I have seen the 180 fail to get that done on a couple of occasion when bone was encounter on entry.. I do however carry my Savage 99 when hunting horseback in the more open country and open timber, and have no qualms about it. I also know that elk broadside can be killed very easily within 200 yards with the .243, 257 or 250-3000 and yes even the 25-35 Win carbine. Its the angling shots that create these discussions. All that said, in the last 10 or so years if I,m on foot, I prefer the .338 Win. for elk. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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 The .308 was not a ""(modern)"" technological military design when introduced nor was the rifle that used it ( M14 ). It did not make any significant contribution to the sporting world other than available cheap, used brass.  It filled no nitch and there just wasn't any real need.  roger  Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Maybe the case was not so groundbreaking, But the ball powders that came with it were. And oh yea it works...tj3006 | |||
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The 308 kicks noticeably less than the 30-06 and kills just as well in the real world (not the imaginings of loquacious old frauds on the internet). I've used both multiple times on bull elk and can't find any real difference, other than the 308 is more fun to shoot, lighter to pack, and uses less powder...  | |||
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I'll concede that the M14 was an uninspired answer to a poor question, but it's ridiculous to say the .308 isn't modern. I would say the proof of that is the success of the WSM family of cartridges. The whole concept of shorter, more efficient powder columns has it's roots in the .308. With less body taper than turn-of-the-century cases (7x57, .30-06), and a longer neck with a more gradual shoulder plus more velocity than immediate predecessors (.300 Savage), the case was absolutely modern when it was released. Maybe in the sporting world it didn't offer anything new, but it was definitely a modern step forward for medium bore military arms. | |||
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Just call me old fashioned, but I believe I can do the best work in a 30 caliber rifle with my OM70 30 Holland Super... | |||
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Not quiet right. The 308 surpasses it's parent round the 300Savage. The 06 is not the 08's parent. That being said I believe the 300 Savage with modern powders would not be far behind the 308. As a military round the 308 might not of seen much use in the M14 but it surely did in the SLR/FAL, M60 and any other belt feed machine gun that used the 308 round. It is a great hunting round for Australia. When I feel I need something more than a 308 I just grab one of my 35 cals. | |||
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Since the army and marines have both put the M 14 back into use , as a designated marksman rifle, it is clearly still very useful... ...tj3006 | |||
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They just had a lot of them and didn't know what to do with them. rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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What we needed was some more range and terminal energy than the 5.56 provided. So we used the M14 because it's what was on hand and it fired a suitable cartridge. It's actual use would be nil if we had a service cartridge worth a damn. But that's a whole other debate. | |||
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 Right on the nose. rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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The 308 win is sexy. I have shot moose, black bear, dall sheep and a couple deer with it. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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I think the people over there are pretty happy with the M 14 in its currant form. And i think its safe to say that the .308 or 7.62 is very effective as a service round. I know its a small improvement over the .300 savage, but i just think it feeds better. Its my understanding that the 300 savage was tried before WW2 and was not deemed good enough. Never heard any soldiers complain about the &.62 nato round. ...tj3006 | |||
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tj, I'm right there with you on the excellence of the .308 as a service round. However, I've got to go with Bartsche in regards to the M14. It just doesn't have anything going for it in today's service besides the fact that it fires the 7.62 round. And while I greatly prefer the .30-06 to .308 as a sporting round, the ugly truth is that my gun safe currently has one .308 and zero .30-06 rifles. It's an unthinkable sin, I know. But the wife as this absurd rule about no new sporting firearms until I've taken game with the newest one. And dammit if I'm not overseas again with a new .257 Roberts waiting next season. | |||
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Whelen man you have good tastes. The Roberts is good ! i have 2 and an AI too. I cant see whats not to like about the M 14. its a little tough to mount a scope, but very adaptable. I have only shot a couple. I know an X green beret who used one on 3 Vietnam Tours. He would use the M 16 if he thought he might need to carry Extra ammo if resupply was liklly to be hard, but he has an M 14 now in his safe and cant think of anything he wouldrather have... Tj3006 | |||
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 .308 sporting --- NO NEED!!! .308 Military, BIG JOKE!! M14 Old technology for it's time. Should have copied the Russians or Germans. rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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There has been no need for any catridge in this class since the 7mm and 8mm mausers came to be. Still the 308 is my favorite. Easy to shoot and economical. I can see a whole lot other cartridges that really make the no need pile like Noslers two brainfarts. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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It is funny to listen to the argument over 08 and 06. The question that was asked was how do we get 30-06 performance without the recoil, weight, powder, and extra brass? The 300 savage when beefed up to support combat abuse does not have the same capacity and the shoulder is a problem. It was a good starting point though. Just from an economy of resources the 308 was a huge improvement over the 06 with very little drop in performance against personel and light armor. Same with deer and elk. Shoot 100 elk from here to 400 yards with both rifles and you will NEVER know which was which. For it's purpose less was definitely more. The 308 is a dandy. | |||
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Old technology , like the 1911 Mauser 98 and the mouse trap ! What Russian technology ? The AK ? Good for the jungle but not very accurate. Not many spec ops guys choose them. The AK is good but its main virtue is cheap , and ease of operation, a great choice for poorly trained conscripts. But a well trained professional soldier seldom uses one. ...tj3006 / / | |||
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Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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I hardly think submarines and tanks are relevant to rifles and cartridges. And it is true some GIs chose the ak over the M 16 , in jungle warfare the AK 47 is a great rifle ! But in the currant conflict the M 14 is a better rifle than either. IL 2 is that not a propeller driven bomber from the 50s ? And as you say if left as made in 1911 the government model lacks a bit. But as built today with tighter tolerances and better sights its still top notch... | |||
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The european nato countrys had a full auto modern FN fal rifle with a perfect suited .270 cartrige. But the US military wanted to stay with .30cal and a US made old semi auto design m14 and the cartridge was 7,62nato not suited for full auto assault rifles. | |||
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ABSOLUTELY ON THE NOSE!!! roger Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Why is the .308 not suited for full auto rifles. i will admit you can.t carry a whole bunch of it. But it feeds fine and recoil in the M 14 is almost none . ...tj3006 | |||
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Personally I don't care that is not best suited for military use. It is a great hunting round. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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I have 7 I think. I also have other 30 cals including 300 mags. The 308 is no 300 mag but it gets a lot done with little fuss. Once I started shooting it the more I liked it. My gavourite hunting load is the 165gr North Fork at 2650 to 2700 fps. I also like the 180g at 2500 to 2550 fps. It is easy to shoot well and easy to get to shoot well. I've used it at short range and in the Kalahari out to 270 to 300m (where a 300 mag is beter but with a rangefinder it seemed to kill as dead). I've also shot across mountain valleys and in bushveld under 100m. The 308 is one of the most underestimated calibres in my opinion. | |||
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I purchased my first .308 about a decade or so ago. Growing up under a '06 roof I had used them plenty of times and simply wanted something a little more compact. My purchase was a Ruger Compact weighing in at 6.5# scoped, loaded and ready to hunt. The short barrel doesn't give top end velocity but it has dropped deer and hogs ever since the first trip to the woods. I have something in a bunch of calibers but this little rifle sees the majority of the field time with me. Mike / Tx | |||
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THIS. 308, kicks a little, kills a lot. | |||
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