The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Barrel for new gun, fluted or notGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Have the itch for a new rifle, and have a new 700 SS long action Mag action and was thinking of putting a Douglas Premium match 26" SS barrel on it in a #5 contour. I like the idea of the fluted barrels but have heard conflicting view points. Taking off about a half pound of weight is appealing to me but some say the fluting causes stress and may be accuracy problems. Any one have some experience with this. | ||
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barrels should be stress releived after fluting IMHO. If you order from say PacNor, Lilja, etc, they will flute the blank for you and stress releive before shipping. Difficulty is inevitable Misery is optional | |||
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I used to not really care for the look of a fluted bbl. Then I got a couple. I cannot back this up but I think a fluted barrel is the way to go IF IT IS FLUTED BEFORE RIFLING. My latest rifle wears a Lilja fluted #5. As I understand it, he flutes them, then button rifles it, thus, no stress introduced into a rifled preturned blank. Now, fwiw, I did send my 30.06 off to the same smith that built it and had some cosmetic work done, mostly for looks. He took off the barrel and fluted it and the bolt, then he blued the bolt. I have no regrets and the rifle did not shoot any different whatsoever. The barrel is a pacnor. Any future rifles I have built or rebarreled will wear fluted barrels. You can read what Dan Lilja says about fluting and stress here. Just scroll to the FAQ about fluting. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Thanks for the information Doc. I have no experience with Pac-Nor barrels, can anyone give me any information as to the experience that you have had with this company with sporter barrels. | |||
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Altough none of my PacNor barrels were fluted, all the work they have done for me is fantastic. Also, I have never heard of any complaints. I will send all my future projects to them. Lou **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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I've got half a dozen rifles with Pac Nor barrels on them... and they ALL are worth every penny.. they are excellent shooters.... some of the most accurate rifles I own... Pac Nor is not far from here, and locally there are guys who know Chris who owns it personally.. and I have heard several stories that have been repeated by guys who claim to know him... First, is that their super premium stuff is no different from their regular barrels.. just people want super premium, and are willing to pay extra for that documentation and since the competitors offer it, Pac Nor does also.. but if you go with a lower cost barrel from them, it is just as good as the super premium ones.. they have one set of standards over there... period.. all are highest quality... ( some of mine are rejects from his factory that a few locally connected guys buy off of PacNor at times.. and they are shooting excellently! for me)... Secondly, consumers want flutes... consumers think flutes make a barrel more rigid..... makes it cool quicker.. and they are willing to pay an extra $100.00 plus for it.. so they of course offer it.. why turn down an opportunity to make a fast C note? But do the folks over at Pac Nor think it adds any of the above hype to real world scenarios? NOpe, not really.. but they aren't going to argue with you if you want to pay an extra $100.00 to $125.00 to have them on your barrel..... Kinda like pinstripping on a sporters car.. makes it look cooler, but doesn't make it go any faster, or handle any better... But its your money... looks or just functionality? its you and your wallets decision.... But Pac Nor will definitely give you a very fine excellent and accurate barrel.. for a real decent price, good turn around and great customer service.. I haven't heard that second hand.. that part I have experienced... Life Member: The American Vast Right Wing Conspiracy Jan 20, 2009.. Prisoner in Dumocrat 'Occupied America', Partisan in the 'Save America' Underground Beavis..... James Beavis..... Of Her Majesty's Secret Service..... Spell Check Division "Posterity — you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it." John Quincy Adams A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him "Why do you carry a 45?" The Ranger responded, "Because they don't make a 46." Duhboy....Nuttier than Squirrel Poop... | |||
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ditto to seafire,...my PacNor tubes are every bit as accurate as every other top end manufacturers barrels I have. Difficulty is inevitable Misery is optional | |||
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I see no reason for flutes, they hold moisture and its a good way to cut your finger on some of them...I like a barrel heavy gun as it makes off hand shooting easier. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I like the looks of fluted barrels !. With that said . I've never seen any advantages to them .  I've heard all the Hype just like Cyro treating barrels . A top notch barrel from Lija or PacNor in a well bedded stock is as good as it gets ! IMO . How ever I'm NOT a Smith or a bench shooter either !. Just an excessive target banging bag blasting resting off hand hunter shooter !. Shoot Straight Know Your target . ...  | |||
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Seafire, I know it is a touch off topic, but do you have any Polygonal Pac-Nor barrels? I was talking to KC there the other day and he felt they were not as accurate....but might last up to 4 times longer. So I am up against the same barrel questions, whose, fluted or not..... Thanks, Dan | |||
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I like fluted barrels, I have a bunch that are, and a bunch that aren't. Either will shoot fine. Flutes increase surface area, and will technically allow a barrel to cool faster--with the proverbial caveat of 'all else being equal' It is not true that fluting always reduces weight. Typically you must go with a larger contour than you would with a non-fluted barrel, and therfore negate any weight savings. Having said that, some factory barrels I own are the same contour as the non-fluted barrels, and there is a weight difference....... Pick whichever you like based on the same criteria as the rest of you rifle choice, do you like the aesthetic or not, do you like the price delta or not, and lastly--but probably most important, is it a good quality tube either way!! | |||
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I would buy another PacNor barrel anytime. It is as good or equal to any other barrel I have which includes Lilja, Hart, Shilen, and Broughton to name a few. My 30.06 will shoot 1/2" groups or less with several bullets that I've loaded and with Federal 165 Btip factory ammo. If you go with a PacNor barrel you will not be sorry. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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I tried to get in contact with Pac-Nor today and had no, got a busy signal each time I called. Do any of you have any pic you can post of a fluted barrel they have done for you? | |||
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Fluted barrels are the way to go because of their high CDI factor... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I have recently shot some Blaser R 93 fluted barrels that were very accurate, VERY accurate. I also have a polygonal barrel on a 308 match rifle, it too is very accurate. I have also shot some polygonal bbls on H&K products that shot very well. The "PolyG" bbls sure are easy to clean. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I have a Pac Nor barrel on my 300 Weatherby that's in at Corlane's having the barrel fluted and it will be very interesting to see how it shoots the same loads after fluting. They said that they have done hundreds of fluting jobs and they have never had a barrel shoot worse. The accuracy has generally improved with the fluting. It will be interesting. It will be a light weight 300 Weatherby for sure. Take good care, Dave | |||
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Shilen voids their warranty if their barrels are fluted, but didn't Benchrest Hall of Famer Tony Boyer shoot Shilen barrels that were fluted after chambering? Perhaps it just matters who is doing the fluting. | |||
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Oh I think the voiding of the warranty is just a reasonable precaution..."I can't be responsible if you change my product"...I would expect every barrel manufacture to void their warranty if you flute their barrel. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Tim North at Broughton Barrels was very specific about wanting to do the fluting on any barrel of theirs before they did the final hand-lapping to finish diameter. He feels it is important to the last bit of accuracy from their barrels..... Pac-Nor and Lilja don't seem to have that same concern. I guess the when and if discussion will continue..... Cheers, Dan | |||
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Fluting the barrel is normally thought of as a means to increase cooling ability(not sure that is relevant for if it cools faster, it would probably heat faster???) important to those shooting strings of 20 or more in a long range match, but one could argue that it adds to rigidity/stiffness of the barrel. I use Douglas and Krieger barrels, both fluted and non fluted and have been told that a button rifled barrel should not be fluted after it is rifled?? Both brands shoot fine, but would definitely give the edge to Krieger. Give Krieger a call, give Douglas a call and then you would have a fair idea as to the mfg's viewpoint. Good luck. | |||
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Dan, I know John Noveske here in town, who is an AR 15 Gunsmith, really goes for the polygonal barrels... as was said, they dramatically increase barrel life... Can't attest to their accuracy or lack thereof.. But if I was doing an AR barrel, it would be polygonal for that durability reason alone... Life Member: The American Vast Right Wing Conspiracy Jan 20, 2009.. Prisoner in Dumocrat 'Occupied America', Partisan in the 'Save America' Underground Beavis..... James Beavis..... Of Her Majesty's Secret Service..... Spell Check Division "Posterity — you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it." John Quincy Adams A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him "Why do you carry a 45?" The Ranger responded, "Because they don't make a 46." Duhboy....Nuttier than Squirrel Poop... | |||
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Seafire-- Thanks for the feedback. This is a Mini-14 accurizing project, so similar rules might apply. My smith has had excellent results with these often-bashed rifles and McGowen barrels, getting consistant results under 1 MOA. I don't want to throw too many wrenches into his system, but a poly barrel is tempting. Either way, I am not expecting benchrest results. Thanks, Dan | |||
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Hey Seafire, Noveske is the smith that built my 30.06 and did the other work I mentioned above. He also built my brother's 270. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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yeah John N. can be a little strange at times.. but I think that is a trait of those that are really brilliant... He is definitely a good guy.. he has done several barrels for me.. and I recommend him very highly... Excellent gun smith.. and definitely an AR guru... Life Member: The American Vast Right Wing Conspiracy Jan 20, 2009.. Prisoner in Dumocrat 'Occupied America', Partisan in the 'Save America' Underground Beavis..... James Beavis..... Of Her Majesty's Secret Service..... Spell Check Division "Posterity — you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it." John Quincy Adams A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him "Why do you carry a 45?" The Ranger responded, "Because they don't make a 46." Duhboy....Nuttier than Squirrel Poop... | |||
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I have 4 rifles now w/ PacNor bbls. & they are great for the money. You can spend more for sure & there may be an advantage to Liljs or Hart but for a hunting rifle, I am happy w/ my PacNor. I would only go to a fluted bbl. if I was trying to cut wt. & still get a reasonably stiff bbl. v a ft.wt. Although the ft.wt. bbl. on my .280 is a pretty darn good shooter. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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