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Thinking about moving up to a bigger, harder hitting cartridge for hunting black bear over bait in grizzly country. I am thinking something with a 20" barrel, but enough heft to help absorb recoil. Something in .338 WM or .375 Ruger is my current thinking. Any ideas? Thanks, BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | ||
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I have a 9.3x62 and love its recoil not bad at all and works very good with a 20in barrel. | |||
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BH63 The Ruger Alaskan completely fits your bill. Add some weight if recoil is an issue. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Much as I love the 338WM, such a short barrel needs something with greater expansion values to burn more powder before the bullet exits. Therefore, the 9.3x62 might make more sense. | |||
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There's a reason Winchester named their M70 .338 win Mag the Alaskan and Griz was part of the question. | |||
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Another one for the 9.3x62mm. In fact I used my CZ 550 FS this spring in northern Alberta black bear hunting. I do own a .338 also but I would think you would loose too much velocity with a 20" barrel. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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I would buy an old Remington 600 in 350 Remington Magnum or one of the 700 Classics from the run in the 80's. The 700 Classic was 22 inch if I remember correctly. I had a pair at one time and it was a light, nice handling rifle. | |||
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My .375R Guide model pushes 300 gr old-style Silvertips at 2575 fps with 80 gr IMR-4350, WLRM, Hornady brass. Zero extraction effort, cases stretched just 0.004" after 3 firings. Primer pockets feel like new seating 5th primer. The old STs are not especially accurate, about 1.5" for 3 at 100 yds. Substituting Hornady 300s or 270s I get cloverleafs. The STs just look cool, and killing a deer out back with one is on my bucket list. So...... Thought first of the .338W version. Think it would be a great combination, but glad I bought the .375. | |||
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Thanks for all the good info. I've been thinking the .375 might make more sense. I will certainly look into the Alaskan. I will be using it almost exclusively over bait, so tack-driving accuracy won't be an issue. I tolerate recoil well (at least with my .416 Rem Mag, 45-70, and .300 Win Mag (Tikka Ultra-light no less, LOL), so I don't think recoil will be a big deal. I don't reload, so availability of factory ammo is very important. BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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Based on your use of the rifle apparently as ranges below 300 yards, Id go big and use the 375 Ruger or H&H with a short tube, you don't need much velocity with a 300 gr. or 350 gr. bullet...Im big on the .338 but at shorter ranges Id always opt for the 375 and that heavy bullet with the big cross section of pure knockdown power..Never believe those who say knockdown power does not exist! it do! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Based on your new post, why not use the 416? I opted for the 375 but based on that above post Id say the 416 is even better..and it will leave better blood trails on bear, and come in handy if a griz invites himself into your blind.  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ruger Alaskans would be preferred though difficult to find. Ruger Guide Rifles in those calibers are easily found. I have both. With the correct powders the 20” barrels are a non issue. Using H414 and 300 grain Sierras in the .375 Ruger I easily obtain an average of 2550 FPS with accuracy nearly match grade. The .338 Win Mag using RL22 with a Nosler Partition in 250 grains hits 2675 FPS with Sub inch groups at 100 yards. | |||
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Trouble is CC, Buffhunter doesn't reload. Buckeyeshooter's 350 Rem mag would fit the bill but finding rifle and ammo might be the rub. The 404 Jeffery used to have a following for big-bear hunting, but a 20-inch barrel would crimp it. However, since the OP concerns black-bear hunting with grizzlies just being a danger, the .404 might be a bit too silly. If the black bear are to be shot over baits, what is the need for such a short barrel? A 9.3x62 with a 24-inch barrel should be manageable from a hide and somewhat easier on your ears. | |||
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Yep, don't handload and it will be hard to find ammo in a 350. What you do find will be 200 grain, but handloaded you can go to 310 grain. | |||
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I can understand the interested in a new more powerful cartridge after wounding the bear in Maine. But from what I read it wasn't the rifle or the bullets fault. A rushed shot and improper bullet placement does not mean what you were using was improper. | |||
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Again, thanks for all the good info. The .416 would certainly have enough juice, but it is a little long for my liking. Still it would be nice to have if a big old grizz (or worse a sow and cubs) showed up on the bait just before dark, LOL. Would definitely punch through the shoulder without deflection. BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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I have two load that work really well with my 375 Ruger Guide Gun. 1. 78.5grs. of RL17 powder, WLRM primer and a Nosler 300gr. Accubond bullet. Chronographed at 2590fps average. 2. 73.0grs. of RL17 powder, WLRM primer and a Woodleigh 350gr. Protective Point bullet. Chronographed 2390fps average. | |||
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Nosler sells .350RM 225 grain NP ammo directly and through Midway USA. My M673 Rem is one of my favorite black bear rifles and it could certainly handle an unlikely grizzly encounter. But the 9.3x62 does all the .350rm does and is currently available from several ammo manufactures. Plus it has a bunch less recoil than a .375 or above would have and can be had in a 20" barrel rifle. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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Whats wrong with your 45-70 and 300wm? | |||
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This is an excuse to buy a new gun! | |||
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Take a hacksaw to your .416..I had a 20" 416 that I used for cape buffalo quite a bit, I really preferred it and I didn't lose much velocity, in fact with the right powder I was about the same as a 24 inch barrel..I like to knock a big hole in bear as the hair suckes up blood trails like a sponge. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The canadian rangers get their new dangerous animals protection rifle. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada...s-contract-1.3747107 | |||
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If I wasn't a handloader, such cartridges as the 9.3 x 62, .375 Ruger, .350 Rem Mag and a whole lot more wouldn't be on the menu.....unless some local store stocked and sold the ammo you want to use..... Frankly, for black bear, I can't think of a better cartridge than the tried and plentiful .30-06 The gun?.....years back Remington made a bunch of them in 20" barrels in their model 700 ADL.....an excellent rifle. They show up on Gunbroker with some regularity. Remington also made their 760 pump with an 18 1/2 barrel.....a bit harder to find....also a fine rifle. Howa makes a .30-06 in their model 1500 with a 20" barrel.....another excellent rifle......I wouldn't buy a Ruger if it was free....it's still too much! The .308 Winchester also is a fine black bear cartridge.....and it's quite possible that the shooter will learn to shoot it a lot better than a .338 Win mag..... /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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06 mod 760 short barrel probably the best walk around rifle for the 50 States and more.  roger  Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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I live and hunt in bear country, but not over bait. Anyway, I have a Ruger Hawkeye African that has a 22" barrel and no muzzle brake. The rifle looks somewhat similar to the one below. And you won't lose much velocity at such a short range, regardless caliber. Load it with factory ammo topped with bullets such as the 225-grain TTSX, or the softer 250-grain NOS. https://ruger.com/products/Haw...pecSheets/47120.html I replaced the stock with a McMillan one that was cut to my LOP at the factory, and includes a decelerator recoil pad. | |||
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I have a Win M70 SuperGrade in 338 Win Mag that has a 21" barrel. Points, carries and balances well and shoots 5 shot groups well under an inch at 100 yards. My load is maximum doses of IMR4350 and Sierra 225 grain bullet averages 2845 fps with FC brass and 2815 fps with WW brass. I've only recovered one bullet all others exit. Recovered bullet is 204 grains and came from the hip of a wildebeest that was shot in the shoulder at 350 yards. I'm thinking this load would be fine on any Bear. | |||
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I have 375 and 416 Rugers with factory 20" barrels. I certainly feel no disadvantage under 200yds. I am currently hunting with a 23.5" barrel 375Ruger. To me it could lose 1.5" of barrel and be near perfect for my hunting. The 20" barrels are handy (to me)in the brush / alders / spruce thickets, and handling in or on an off-road vehicle. Ground blinds, natural or commercial, they are damn handy. I would assume also in a tree type stand also. I use 270 grain Barnes TSX in the 375 and 350 grain TSX in the 416. No complaints. Unless ultimate type velocity is the goal, in a 375 and above, I prefer 22" max length. And for my use, I like 20's in tight quarters. | |||
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Snellstrom and you have made good points. There is nothing wrong with using any short barreled rifle for bait and any other type of hunting where the shots are taken within 250 yards. And bear-baiting shots are quite close. The OP is talking about bear-baiting, not sniping. | |||
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Looking at factory ballistics, the .350RM doesn't buy me much more than the .300WM. Taking a hacksaw to my .416 would be a big mistake. I can't even shorten a latigo without screwing it up. LOL The .375 Ruger seems to be the ticket. It gives me a .300gr bullet moving along fairly fast. Not sure about the Hornady DGX bullets though. Might be a reason to start reloading finally (about 40 years I was waiting in line at the cashier with a reloader in hand. The clerk was tied up with some guy about a scope or something, and I finally got tired of waiting.) Thanks for all the responses (the good ones anyways. LOL). BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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Simple. Find a nice used Whitworth in .375 H&H Mag and never look back. JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
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Supposedly the DGX are bonded now. How well they work I do not know.
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LOL. But animals can't read ballistic charts. The effect of a 225 or 250 grain bullet on a bear at short range pretty clearly favors the .35 from either a .350RM or Whelen. But if you think you need bigger (and a new gun) have fun with whatever choice you make. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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Buffhunter, I suggested the .416 because you already have one..otherwise the 375 seems more logical..but keep in mind that every cartridge mentioned in this whole thread would work just fine, from the 30-06 on up..and the 30-06 is a fine Grizzly caliber btw.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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None better for 'short-n-powerful' than Remy's model 600 in .350 Rem Magnum - ballistically a short-action .35 Whelen with an 18" barrel. A bit later Remy revised it to a 20" tube with the Model 660. But whether 18" or 20", the compact set-up gave you an easy-to-tote .35-cal blaster. A helluva woods or brush carbine that was decades ahead of its time. All The Best ... | |||
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Pick anything between 338 WM and 375 HH have the barrel cut to 21 inches by a gunsmith and call it done. Inside of 75 yards no bear is going to be able to tell the difference. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Well, when I was 14 years old my best friend and I ran into a black bear at the local garbage dump. I killed him with amy 22 Hi Standard auto..We bravely went fourth where no man had gone before, and I will never try that again, just got real close and emptied the clip as fast as I could in the shoulder, man can a bear being shot like that scare one, what with rolling jumping biting himself and giving us ugly looks, we proudly skinned him and headed home..Dad took the pistol away from me for a few years! and the dogs ruined my rug to be.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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A friend of mine who died a couple years back who was a bit older then you Ray. Told me the story when he and a buddy skipped school to go survive in woods. They had a few jars of home can goods. As they were walking to their camping area a bear stepped out in the logging road. My friend pulled up and shot him behind the shoulder with his single shot 22 rifle. The bear took off running and dropped dead after about a 100 feet. Now they had a problem because they were not big enough to handle the bear and they were skipping school. So they headed back to town. When they were just about there a neighbor stopped and helped them go get the bear. He didn't say if he got into trouble for skipping school but the family enjoyed the bear meat. | |||
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i have few 9.3x62s and still prefer the short barrel open sights stainless 375 ruger .... | |||
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I voted with my wallet and own 3-375s. One is the African w/23 inch barrel, one is the 23 inch Alaskan, one is the 22 inch very short Ruger 1. The Ruger Guide and Alaskan models come in 338 wm if that is your cartidge. If you want something different, Sako makes an entire bear series. 21 inch barrels in 375 he and 338 wm | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Recommendations for a .338 WM or .375 Ruger in a Carbine
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