Well, I finally took my 9.3x80R (see Collath Double ) to the range today. The good news is that I was able to calculate loading data using Quickload to try as a starting point in load development. I backed off the calculated max load by three grains and loaded four rounds to try. I loaded two more rounds with some old Norma 286 grains at about ten grains less powder to try as well. Since the target frame had been placed at 40 yards I left it there and intended to fire a four round group with the 250's. After the first two shots(a right and a left) I could not bring myself to fire at that target again, so I pulled it (see below).



I then fired the other two shots at the second target (pictured below), and I don't think that I will have to do a lot more load development .



Now for my problem, I was using some 250 grain Speer 9.3mm bullets that I have had for many years. I used these since I don't have anything lighter, and this rifle was proofed with 12.7 gram (192 to 196 grain) bullets. I did try the 286 grain Norma bullets with my last two shots, but they were not stabilized with the twist of this barrel (at least at the velocity of the starting load which was very conservative), so I need to stay with 250 grain or less bullets. I am hoping that some one will have some of the old 250 grain Speers that they would be willing to sell, as I only have around a hundred left, and the newer Speers are 270 grains. How about it guys, can you help a needy vintage double that will soon be without bullets ?

I know about Hawk and Old Western Scrounger for lighter bullets (200 grain from Hawk and 193 grain RWS from OWS), but the 250 grain Speers shoot so well that I certainly would like to find some more if I can. HELP !!!!!!

Thanks,
Jim

Mbogo375
Good shooting/loading. If you cannot find any more 250 Speers I would try the Hawks in 250gr. I have found in my doubles that bullets of the same weight and similar construction shoot about the same.
I would also have to try the 270 Speers because they are so inexpensive. You might even try and reduce the weight of the 270 Speer to 250grains with a Forester Hollow Pointer Tool or similar device.
What velocity are you getting?

Mbogo:

I have two boxes, one still sealed. The boxes read: 250 grain .366 9.3mm #6 made by Vernon Speer. I have no idea what the #6 is for or means. You are welcome to them.
Maybe this time you need to come see me?

Check out Norma. They should be offering a 232 grainer.

Woodleigh also make a 250 grainer

I would bet the 250 gr. Swift would approximate the Speer and be a better bullet at the same time....Also try the Woodleigh 250.

I personally would want a heavier bullet and would simply go to work trying to get the 286, 300 and 320 gr. bullets to shoot by uping and lowering the powder charge..

The beauty of the 9.3 lies in heavy bullets at slow velocity, lots of penitration and bullet integrity is seldom challanged...

I've got 185 or so 232 gr Norma Oryx's that I no longer need. Let me know if you're interested and I'll make you a deal.

Ray,

Unfortunately the twist seems too slow to stabilize the heavier bullets. The 286 Normas were actually hitting the target sideways at 40 yards. I also had some 250 Nosler Ballistic Tips on hand, and even though they grouped pretty well at 40 yards they did show signs of being slightly unstable (but they are actually longer than the 286's).Both of these loads were in 9.3x72R brass, but with the bullets seated out to proper length for the 9.3X80R. The 286 load was VERY mild, so more velocity could help but I am not optimistic (even the 250 Speers showed slight instability when I backed off to 35 grains instead of 40, but they hit point of aim). I think that I may try the 200 grain Hawks or the 250 grain Woodleighs, at least for range use, to conserve my meagre supply of 250 grain Speers.

Jim



[ 07-27-2003, 07:15: Message edited by: mbogo375 ]

double post

[ 07-27-2003, 07:08: Message edited by: mbogo375 ]

mbogo375
Hawk makes 9,3 bullets in 200gr, 235gr. amd 250gr. I have been very happy with Hawk's 285gr .035jkt. on deer and pigs in the 9,3, and their .408 dia 300gr .025jkt in my 450/400. Big mushrooms and excellent penetration.

Mbogo,
I'm wondering if RL-15 might get you better stabilization in that caliber??? It seems to lend itself to those type cases and most all double rifle loadings.??????????????????

You should take Ed up on his offer and buy those 232gr Norma bullets.

They have been extensively tested, and mushroom very well, but almost never fragmen (even on moose). I have the test report somewhere, but it is in Swedish...

jpb

Update on the 9.3 situation: As I was afraid Old Western Scrounger no longer has RWS 193 grain 9.3 bullets. So far I have been unable to locate any current source of under 250 grain bullets other than Hawk (Thanks Ed for the offer of the 232 grain Norma Oryx bullets. I have sent a PM).

NE 450 No2,
Hawk will probably be the ultimate resolution to my problem.

Ray,
I have since tried 40 grains of IMR 4320 with the 286 Norma, and with the increased velocity there is still some tipping with these bullets. I am at the maximum pressure that I would feel comfortable with here, so the twist rate is just not adequate for longer bullets.
On a more positive note, I also tried 270 grain Speers with 40 grains of IMR 4320 at 50 yards and got a group that was just under 2 inches for 4 shots with only slightly out-of-round holes. I might be able to work with this bullet to get decent performance by trying other powders and seating depths (if I can get the velocity up slightly).

jpb,
Thanks for pointing out Ed's post. Somehow I missed it originally, but I just sent him a PM). So far I have been unable to find more of the Norma Oryx 232 grain 9.3 mm bullets . If anyone has info on US suppliers of this bullet please let me know.

Thanks everyone,
Jim

I ordered some Graf 9.3x62 brass a month ago, called them yesterday & was told that they expected the brass to be available by the end of August. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

1894,
Thanks for the info. Unfortunately I know of no supplier for the 232 grain Vulkan in the US either .

Jim

I would get them shipped direct from the continent or ring Norma who are very helpful over such matters. They may still have 232 oryx on the shelf at the factory.

Mbogo375 check out www.customreloads.com that have a listing for 193 gr 9.3mm bullets. Forgot to post this info the other day when I found it. Also www.Sellier-Bellot.cz list them to.

Good Luck and let me know how it turned out.

[ 08-13-2003, 03:51: Message edited by: CoonDawg ]

CoonDawg and 1894,

Thanks for the help. I will check it out soon.

Jim

Mbogo375 glad to help out. I'll be calling them soon also, since I'm trying to build one of Judson's .366 D.G.W.s.

They had 9.3x74 brass listed to. Found this stuff while doing a Google search.

Don't hesitate to use the Hawks for a minute. Andy can make them with thinner jackets so they expand well at lower velocities, and they are way deadly. They are also quite short for theur weight and will stabilize well.

Swift also makes 250 gr. bullets and they sure work terminally on game...they should shoot well in your gun, base on the targets you displayed...

I still think you should shoot some 320 Woodleigh RNs...

mbogo375, forgot to let you know about Montana Precision: contact Russel M Dugdale 406-782-7502 and DKT Chuck Richardson at dktinc@aol.com.

Those were the other places I found when I did a web search, they are custom bullet makers and do 9.3mm/.366 caliber stuff.