I've always had a hankering for a 358Win as a scrub gun. For me, the SMLE, with a 10 round mag, fast action (I grew up with SMLE's) would be the perfect option.

I do know that #4's have been rebarreled to take 308, so would they handle the 358W without any hassles?

Or should I just stick with the 35/303 (35 Epps)?

I'd prefer the 358Win because of availablity of inexpensive, quality brass, and if I'm going to re-barrel anyway, I might as well get what I want...
Any thoughts?

An action that will handle the pressures of the .308 should have no problems handling the .358 - but - why not go 'native' and change it to the big brother of the .303, the .375 2-1/2" Flanged? Same head size, same rim, esoteric but useful. Or even a .35 Winchester...

I wouldn't be so hasty as to beleive the SMLE is worthy of .308 pressures.

Maybe.....but there has to be many better alternatives!

The SMLE´s that were converted to 308, had specially made actions in a higher grade steel.
Be carefull ! If you dont have one of those, you can chamber to 375 win or 45 70 or....well,I would stay with 35 epps. In terms of cases, one of the other two sounds better.
boet.

RugerUser,
The NO4's converted to 308Win and 223Rem range rifles I believe required testing of the receivers to ensure they were sound before rebarreling and use on a NRA range. Once that was done the conversion was good to proceed... so the No4 action will accept a 308Win or 358Win. But ... is it worthwhile given the Ruger 358Win shoudl be available about now???
I'm unsure however whether the No4 308s were set up as single shot range rifles or retained magazine function, I reckon some tweaking would be required to get them feeding etc...
Talk of the 303/35 is timely as a mate is just beginning the process of converting a No4 sporter to 303/35. He's a bastard as he bought the $70 donor clunker I located with Singer and battle sight, but I bear him no ill! I wont tell you the price to convert as it'll knock your socks off how cheap it is , but there will be change left out of $400. Process is basically ... ask Sprinter for the barrel, profiled, chambered, blued but not threaded. Any backyard 'smith/machinest can then cut the threads and fit it for nominal cost. Headspace being controlled with appropriate bolthead. For dies ... either ask an engineering shop to open a set of 303British dies OR use a set of Simplex 5/8" dies with expander removed in any 35cal to size your necks and then keep pressures sane so FL resizing isnt required.
Mate should have his in the next few months ... I'll report on it once its up and running ... but a 356Win equivalent with 10shot capacity is what we're expecting.
Cheers...
Con

Thank you all for your input...

Con, you're speaking my language!!

A cheap, knockabout 10 shot with good thump power at short range (ie pigs in lignum) is exactly what I have in mind!!

I'll follow up on your suggestions - cheap #4's aren't hard to come by in Sydney, and as barrel/stock condition is irrelevent, it should keep the price down... this won't be to look at, it'll be treated the same as a shovel...

Look forward to hearing about your mate's project, and if I get mine off the ground, I'll keep you posted.

The British Army took no. 4 Marks 1/2 and 2, rebarreled to 7.62 Nato and modified the action body (receiver) and magazine to feed the cartridges. This rifle was designated the L39A1 and was used for target shooting. The action body may or may not have been tested and/or re-heat treated. The info I have is found in the NRA publication titled "British Enfield Rifles" and does indicate one way or the other regarding the matter of testing of actions.
Said rifle was used successfully in competition including in Palma matches at Bisley by Brit, Canadian and US teams one year.

quote:

Originally posted by rugeruser:
I'll follow up on your suggestions - cheap #4's aren't hard to come by in Sydney ...

Rugeruser,
Cheap No4 ... yes please!! Need to find another one now as I'll end up doing one too. Love the idea of a knockabout 303/35.
My thoughts were along the lines of do the rebarrel first using a 18" to 20" barrel ... then add a Ramline synthetic stock and then a forward mounted scout scope on QD mounts. Battle sight to remain and charger clip loading to also remain. Ask for Sprinter's 1:14" barrel and then use the 200gr Corelokt for plinking pigs with Woodleigh's 225gr for Sambar/Reds and the FMJ if you ever get to chase a buff. If you catch Keith on a good day ... I reckon he'd do you a rebore too as the No4 barrel has enough meat in the profile to allow it.
Cheers...
Con

This is a long shot, but your project would be much easier if you could locate one of the arsenal converted 7.62 Nato SMLEs. Then, all you'd need to do is send the barrel off and have it rebored and chamber cleaned up. It will already come with a geometrically correct ten round magazine and will already feed the .308 sized case.

Rebore, reblue, restock...go hunting. That is what I would do if I could.

Con,

where are you located?

If we both keep an eye out, I'm sure we'll find what we're after... I know Lowrance (Sydney) had a few clunkers a while ago, but they may have been offloaded by now... if you're in Sydney, it might be worth checking out HPGS's 'backroom' for bargains... either way, I'll put the word out to a few friends of mine...

I'm not going to worry about a new stock - a battered original is fine by me.

btw, I'd be cautious about the forward mounted scope - mate of mine had one, and at dusk with the sun at your back, the reflection off the lense stopped me from seeing anything, and if I was shooting into the sun, the glare did teh same thing.

I'm sticking with the battle sight set up.

Tex, I hear what your saying, but they tend to be more expensive than crappy originals - AFAIK, reboring here in OZ is not a good option... we don't have the plethora of gunsmiths you guys seem to have Stateside....

Rugeruser,
Shepp, Victoria ... happy to keep an eye out for you ... when found a well used No4 is usually around the $100 mark here.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
Rugeruser,
Shepp, Victoria ... happy to keep an eye out for you ... when found a well used No4 is usually around the $100 mark here.
Cheers...
Con

Con,

good to know.

I'll put the word out in Sydney, and also in the New England area - its amazing some of the stuff that turns up out there!!

Cheers,

Pete

No way would I want to put many 308 level loads through this action as even 303 brass life is limited because of stretching.

Bearhunter,

given my experience of SMLE's and #4's in particular, the mot common reason for short case life in 303's is because of chamber dimensions - they were built as battle rifles with overized chambers, designed to work under any conditions... mud, dust, you name it. And they did that very well.

A #4 with a chamber built to 'normal'tolerance, and loaded to normal pressures will not degrade brass much quicker than a front locking action.

And #4's have been rebarrelled in 308 and used as target (and hunting) rifles for years...

I have a M39A1, a No 4 Mk2 action converted to a 308 Winchester target rifle. Has all the British reproof marks, correct barrel, etc. The action is springy. I have to keep 168 Sierra loads no more than 2500 fps or I have resistance to bolt opening. The obvious reason is that the backthrust of the cartridge sprung either the bolt or the action.

A rear locking lug rifle is not as rigid as a front locker. I would not try to convert any Lee Enfield to any cartridge that operates in the 50,000 psia range.

Regarding the strength of the No4 action ... note the MIA M10 (not sure if available in US/Canada) is a modern rendition of the No4 and is available in 308Win. The action will work as a 308Win as will a Rem788 ... both rear lockers ... as long as sane pressures are maintained.
Cheers...
Con

Why not just have it rechambered to the 303 epps
load a 215 grn woodleigh over51 grns.Ar2209 and thump anything that you feel the need.mag capacity will drop down to bout 8-9 rounds tho.i have been using 57 grns 2213 under the woodleigh 174 grner on sambar it works a treat so well in fact i am having another done on a p 14 action

How about a 35 Remington?

I'm in the process of doing just that except I'm using an Ishapore 2a action for the 358 W.

But first, I am also doing a 450 Marlin on a MKIII 303 Brit action. They both are almost identical except I don't know, for certain, the profing on the Mk III.

The MAIN THING TO REMEMBER is both these actions were designed for the ORIGINAL calibers and as long as you load to the OEM caliber pressures, or less, you won't have any problems, and still have an excellent knock around shooter. Just the reason for my conversions.

The rear ghost ring type sight will be adjusted to "zero" at 125 yds then locked down and a very stout front sight installed so where won't be any sight problems encountered when you're in the shi*, and the stock will be reinforced where needed.

The 303 is a 45 Kpsi cartidge and so is the 450 Marlin so don't anyone go nuts on me here. It feeds slick as snot using the OEM 303 Brit 5 and 10 round mags after the mag ears are spread slightly to handle the larger dia case neck and there isn't any need for bolt or action mods. Maybe a bit of extractor work after I get it all together.

The 358 is an inexpensive rebarrel and maybe a bit of magazine adjustment and is an excellent conversion. There are actually several larger caliber cases that will work or the 358 case necked up to 9mm, 9.3mm, or 375, but each one has problems that need to be addressed and gets into higher costs for dies, reamers, and 'smithing if you can't do it youself.

AGAIN...AS LONG AS YOU LOAD TO OEM PRESSURES....these caliber conversions are very desirable for a "grab and go" gun.