I went to the range today and was shooting 5 shot strings, cleaning the barrel between them. I used a brush on the bore with Sweets solvent and followed up with a clean patch. I was shooting Berger bullets (190 gr). I was working up load and chronographed each round. I fired almost 50 rounds during the course of the day. When I had fired about 25 rounds, accuracy went right down the toilet. I couldn't even keep them on the paper. When I got home I gave it a real good cleaning and found the it took about 15 cleanings to get all ofthe copper out of the bore. The question: Is it possible to get the bore so fouled with copper as to make the gun perform that poorly?

Yes it is.

What kind of barrel are you shooting?

Not only copper fouling, but powder fouling can be a problem as well.

Try using some JB.

the barrel is a Shilen Match grade. I have never had this problem before. I was wondering if it could be the Berger bullets. I did use JB to clean it at home.

You may well have a coppering problem, but to have the accuracy extremes you mention, would suspect other problems?? Off the paper is a "bunch" and would check all torques of action screws, scope mounts, etc.
Shilen makes a good barrel and have used them over the years and normally have not had a copper build up problem with them, but stranger things have happened. As to the Berger bullets, give some Sierra's a try and see if any difference. May not be your first choice for hunting, but at this stage, trying to eliminate a particular problem and Sierra's will generally give idea as to potential accuracy. Just a suggestion.

I have never had this happen before. I read several entries in the Gun cleaning section of this Forum and got some pretty good info there. I checked all of the screws for tightness and all were properly touqued. I cleaned it pretty well and I'll try it next Tuesday. Wish me luck. Elk season is just around the corner.

quote:

Is it possible to get the bore so fouled with copper as to make the gun perform that poorly?

Heck yes, between Copper and Carbon fowling, Carbon ring ect.

I own more than than a few rifles that will stop shooting good between 20 and 35 rounds. A good bore cleaning and things are back to normal.

Reading some of the entries in the Gun Cleaning section, there seems to be some disagreement about JB Bore Cleaner as to whether or not it is possible to damage the rifling by using it. The stuff works great, but I don't want to screw up the barrel by using it too much.

With a Shilen Match Grade barrel, I can't imagine needing anything more than Butch's Bore shine for cleaning. I'd call Shilen and explain your problem.

Thanks, SST. I'll call Shilen.

quote:

Originally posted by Quinault:

quote:

Is it possible to get the bore so fouled with copper as to make the gun perform that poorly?

Heck yes, between Copper and Carbon fowling, Carbon ring ect.

I own more than than a few rifles that will stop shooting good between 20 and 35 rounds. A good bore cleaning and things are back to normal.

I never had much luck with Shilen barrels and have seen that before..its just a rough barrel..I don't mean to but thats been my experience with them...

If you read Shilen on grades of barrel they use a match grade barrel in SS it's hand lapped if it's in CM you have to pay extra for the lapping. Select match is SS and hand lapped and I just got a 30 cal barrel from Shilen in select match it's a good barrel.

I'd sure call Shilen and see what they say about the Berger 190gr VLD bullets.

Ray if your getting hand lapped barrel from Shilen and they are rough have you send any back or talked to them.

I have experience with a few Shilen bbls, one in 223 and several in 308.

All have been most excellent.

Several of the 308 bbls were shot quite a bit, not babied, shot long and hard in hot weather.

They were shot a lot. Never a problem, always very accurate.

Problem solved. dsiteman was right on. The rear scope mount windage screws were either loose or I managed to screw them up when I mounted the new scope a couple of months ago. Thanks anyway for your input, guys. Good to know there is such a pool of knowledge out there to help. I appreciate it.