I am getting ready to order a new rifle for my 15 year old son. Of course, I have budget constraints and have narrowed the choice down to either a Howa 1500 package or a Savage package, both are available for less than $450 with a 3x9 scope mounted and bore sighted. They have cheap synthetic stocks, but I believe will suffice for our purpose. I am still waffling over which one and which caliber. Torn between the 25-06 and .243 win. (Unfortunately both rifles have 22 inch barrels, I would rather have a 24" in both calibers) My son is recoil sensitive, even though he is very tall (about 6�4"). He is also somewhat sensitive to muzzle blast. He did not like a Savage .270 with factory muzzle brake that he got to try last weekend because of the excessive muzzle blast due to the brake. (I was impressed by the lack of felt recoil with the brake, but it was loud) I know the .243 would work great, and and have used one myself at length over the years. My first hunting rifle was a model 70 Westerner in .243. But I believe the 25-06 would be a better deer round, but am uncertain about the recoil, as I have never fired one. Any input would be greatly appreciated since I hope to get the new Howa/Savage ordered on Monday. I am googling for additional info as I type. We are planning to use the rifle for deer, varmints and targets, probably in reverse order.

I would get the low end Weatherby Vanguard ; same action as the Howa , but has a 24 inch barrel . If you can afford a little more , do your self a favor and forget the package deals , the scopes are little more than junk .



A Vanguard can be bought for $360 .



Weaver bases and rings about $30 .



A Weaver K4 or K6 for about $120 .



In my opinion , a .25/06 does have a bit more noticable blast and recoil than the .243 . If you are stuck with factory loads you may want to get the .243 if the boy is very concerned about the kick. If you can reload , the 06 can be used with mild loads to start off and there no noticable difference.

I just purchased a Savage 110 FP in 25-06 and it's giving me 1/2" groups at 100 yds. I was looking at the Savage 111 in 25-06 which is well with-in your price range. Both the 111 and 110FP come with the accutrigger. I opted for the 110FP because of the heavier barrel at 24" vs. the light 22" barrel in the 111. I only gave up a pound of weight for the heavier barrel. I have a friend with the Savage 111 (pre-accutrigger) and he likes it very much. Recoil is much less than a 30-06.

EAR PROTECTION!!! Why am I yelling? So you and your son will get used to it....that is what everyone is going to have to do to get you to hear if you shoot any of those rifles without muffs/plugs! If your ears ring after shooting you have just damaged your ears and they won't "heal". Ok enough lecture...on to the good stuff......I've shot about 9 deer with a .243 and never lost one...but they DO run about 20-50 yards...much more so than my 30/06, and yes I use muffs when I'm hunting also.I leave them pulled up on my head and push 'em down over my ears when I'm about to shoot. It might look dumb but it works. If your in brush country that might make for some father/son tracking/bonding haha. But in open country its not a factor. Not sure you'll be gaining very much by going with a 25/06 over a .243 in a 22 inch barrel except lots of flame and muzzle blast. I would vote a Savage in .243 if you could find one or have them order you one. I'm disabled and have brittle bone disease and weight 120 pounds and a .243 recoil doesn't bother me at all. Try some muffs and I bet it won't bother your son either. More than likely its the muzzle blast that is what is really hurting him. Its hard to be a Savage for accuracy but that short barrel would kinda scare me off. I would get a .243 and not look back. FNMauser

I second the ear protection, but I learned this too late...

I'd normally say 25-06, as I have issues with the 243, but since your son is quite senstive to muzzleblast and recoil, the 243 would be a better choice. It will kill deer just fine.

Savages, while inexpensive, can be capable of pretty good accuracy. Perhaps this is true of Howas as well, but I've not heard too much about them.

Good luck.

Appreciate the feedback, guys. And as for the ear protection, we were (and always are on the range) wearing plugs and muffs! That .270 with muzzle break was still loud. A reply on another forum suggested we consider the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser for him, since the Howa is offered in that caliber. I am not that familiar with it, but checking my loading manuals, it looks promising as a low recoil, yet very effective on deer cartridge. Since I had lamented the scarcity of value priced (cheap) new rifles in the .260 Remington caliber, it just may be that the 6.5 Swede may be a viable alternative. As for the scope, the Howa includes a Nikko Stirling 3x9x42 scope with adjustable objective. Sure sounds like a step up from the Simmons 8 Point that came on my Walmart special Super Shadow in .270 WSM. I read a very favorable review of the scope on an Aussie web site. Apparently the Nikko scopes are quite common and popular down under. So unless someone talks me out of it, the 6.5 Swede in the Howa Lightning package is starting to look like the winner. I even discovered I have a shell holder that is supposed to work with it. (The 6.5x55 uses the same shell holder as a 30-30 winchester?) Appreciate all the responses, keep 'em coming!
Chuck

Get a .243, excellent target, varmit, and light deer caliber. Resale is better on a .243, ammo is everywhere, and if he doesn't like recoil, he will just do better with the .243.

Given those choices, I'd get a Howa, but I'm a Remington guy. Have you considered a ADL, less than $400? One more thing and I'll shut up. Many people, including myself consider the 243 at best a marginal deer rifle. Please let's don't flame or let this be a 243 debate. I certainly agree about the 260/6.5. I Would get one of those or a 7-08 which is universally considered an excellent deer caliber. capt david

6.5x55 is a great round - I'm a big fan. It will, however, kick more than a 243. However, the lame factory loads (a 140 @2550 fps) will keep recoil down a bit - this is a very comfortable and effective load. It is also a better choice (than the 243) if it will be used for larger deer, black bear, or wild boar.

Better yet, load up some 120 Speers @2700-2800fps or so and have an excellent deer load that will be nice and mild. I've had excellent accuracy results with Re15 in moderate loads like this - Re19 and H4831sc work well for stouter laods. For more open country and/or for smaller deer and antelope, load the 100gr partition at 3000+ fps and you have 25-06 performance, if needed.

For Rem 6.5x55 brass, I use the RCBS #3 shellholder - same as the 30-06 with no trouble. The Lee #9 (41 mag) also works pretty well.

One other thought: Are the 700 ADL synthetics available in 260?

Between the two rounds you listed I would go .25-06. You can start him shooting the lighter 87gr loads & then work up to 100-120gr loads for deer. A .260 or 7-08 would also be a good choice. I have just heard too many horror stories about the .243 to recommend it as a deer/antelope rig. There are just too many other better choices IMO. Bigger holes are ALWAYS better when hunting any kind of game.

If you handload, or would like to start doing so, the 25-06 makes the most sense. It is very mild in the recoil department anyway, and with handloads you can tailor it to suit your son's requirements. Bullet weights go from 60 to 120 grs in increments of 10 grs or less.

You can drive a 120 gr Nosler partition 2800 fps with only 38 grs of IMR 4895 for the exact same level of recoil as a 243 with a 100 gr bullet at 3050 fps. Later, you can go up to 3050 fps with th 120 gr 25-06 if he wants a bit more rnage with a little recoil increase.

If he is recoil shy, do NOT under any circumstances buy a 7-08. I love the round, but they seem to kick more than a .308. The .243 will easily kill deer, I use 38.2grs of IMR-4320 with a 100gr Hornady boattail interlokt, does 3000fps in my 24" M98. Never recovered a bullet from a whitetail. You might want to consider a .270 win, Remington has a new reduced recoil load, a 115gr bullet at 2700fps, that would recoil like a .243, and you can step up to some hot 150gr loads, and shoot elk! I repeat, do NOT buy a 7mm-08 for a recoil sensitive shooter!!

Update:
Thanks for all responses. Our new Howa Lightning in 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser has its' cheap Nikko scope mounted and is awaiting its first trip to the range. We would have already been out there if my 18 year old son would have gotten home last night before 3:00 a.m.! I loaded up 19 rounds of winchester brass (would have been 20, but one of my new unfired cases arrived with a split neck, so it became my dummy seating round) using 44.0 gr of Accurate XMR 4350 and the Nosler 100 gr Balistic Tip and Federal 210 primers. We will hopefully get the Nikko 3x9 scope dialed in and shoot a group or two. It is supposed to be very hot today, so we probably won't do that much shooting for groups since barrels have a difficult time cooling off when the temperature is 102� F. BTW the Nikko Stirling Golden scope that came with it was not their adjustable objective model and is comparable to the cheap Simmons 8 Point that came with my Walmart Special Model 70 Super Shadow 270WSM. It may have to be replaced. Will try it and see.
Thanks again for the input!