You can add the 338 Winchester into that group as well. A 250 bullet at 2600 fps doesn't usually require a premium bullet, and it won't stop until it runs into dirt on the other side of the target.

Seems to me K Bell killed about 10,000 elephants, and he used the 7X57 for quite a bit.

Ray has a point about energy...
s

I use 42 grains of H4350 in my 7mm-08 Winchester compact with 175 grain Hornady spitzers. I get an average of 2350 fps with 20 inch barrel. No sign of pressure, and resonably accurate, but slightly compressed. I could probably get another half grain, but not worth it. Short range hog load.

Ray, A 220 Swift at 4000fps and 48 grain bullet is about 1750 foot pounds of energy.

The basic formula in physics is F = M x A. Where M is mass, A is acceleration, and F is force. When a projectile hits something the A is decelleration. How much force there is depends upon how fast the mass slows down. How deep it will penetrate depends upon how fast it will decelerate. Somewhere in all that is a better way to describe killing power, but I can't figure it out. People who do wound analysis say that what is important is the volume of the hole left after the bullet.

JB, I feel that you must be 24 years old and don't get to hunt much there in France. At the very least, you have never gotten to use the 7X57. Don't be so disenchanted... being old isn't all that bad.....
You are right in that the 7 mauser is not a blown out case with large capacities and extreme velocities. It is up to the user to hunt appropriately to the weapon he chooses. I personally butchered a 1400 pound moose taken with one bullet from a 7x57 thru both shoulders and the heart/lung. Furthermore, I can attest to the weight of the animal because I had to pack it 4 miles for my 12y/o son.
Yes, KARAMOJO is nostalgia... for a time that we can only imagine but will never see again. But my offspring is the present.... And the 7X57 has transcended the timegap. Yes, we handload to modern pressures. We also select bullets that expand yet still have 95% weight retention and have a ballistic coefficient of .540. Tricks, maybe, but the results are still the same, a rifle that is capable of taking large North American game at distances.

Have you ever sat around a campfire after a long hard cold day, having eaten a good steak and baked potatoe, with a little brandy to warm your stomach and bring back memories of the best things that happened to you in your life. Those stories aren't lies, they are simply memories with the bad stuff left out. It is good that we remember that way, otherwise we would never go back for an occasional visit to our lives as they were.
Hope your campfires are good, and that you will come to Alaska some day for a hunt. It is a nostalgic place.

I see the 7x75 as the lightest recoiling caliber that I would hunt any animal in the world with...That sez a lot for it IMO...
And Ray, it really hurts to post this up for two reasons: 1) I have to agree with you in total, and 2) I think we have about two hundred replies to this post and not one mention of the 7x57 being the favorite caliber of one Eleanor O'Connor. I think she killed everything on the planet with this caliber. I still have Jack's favorite load for this caliber on a 3x5 card somewhere around the loading bench.
The load mentioned by RA is a bit hotter than I like for my current 7x57 which is a Ruger M77. BTW, this is the rifle and caliber I chose to pass down to my five year old grandson just as soon as he is big enough to handle it.
I once bought a custom 98 Mauser in 7x57 that is one of the horror stories of my mis-spent youth as I no longer have it. It was a war trophy and I bought it for a song. The fellow that I got it from had a a box of some 300-350 bullets that he gave me. These bullets were a round nosed design but look almost like the TUG bullets from Germany and they weighed 172grs - and boy, would they shoot from that Mauser! As I recall I thought IMR4350 was the real deal and they would all go in the same hole if I did my part. I wish I had that gun back today and try it with some H414 - heck, I wish I had it back period!
In my opinion, for what it is worth, the 7x57 is in a class of calibers that should never ever be abandoned - period. It ain't a magnum, it ain't brand new and it ain't likely to be the topic of conversation at the next SHOT show. What it does do is shoot well with little recoil and perform well on animals up to medium size. I wouldn't want to take on old griz with my 7x57 but if you go look at the little flyers Sierra used to send out you will find couple years back a Dr from GA killed the largest brownie harvested that year with one shot from a No 1 Ruger chambered in 7x57. Nuff said???

You mean this skag here?



http://www-scf.usc.edu/~kristena/

Wow, I can't believe this post is still going.
I really love this forum. You guys are fantastic.
Thanks so much for all the wisdom, insight and experience each of you shares every day. It sure is wonderful to have a community like this, even if we don't all agree all the time.
Thanks to all.

I'd be really interested to see if there was this big of a discussion about the 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser. There has to be as many or more people that like this round too.

The narketing gurus at Remington decided several years ago that there was a market niche, and money to be made, by re-introducing two fine old rounds, the 6.5x55 and the 7x57. The engineers are not dummies! They recognized these fine calibers for what they were.
This gave life to the .260 Rem. and the 7mm-08.
Now, IMHO, the older 6.5 and 7x57 rounds were never broken, and certainly didn't need fixin. But one can readily see the effect that all the advertising, and hype has had on these wonderful old rounds. In the interest of "making things better" money is a strong motivator...and The Green Box Gun Company is a driving force in "new" and "inovative" products....maybe.
Just my thoughts.
Russ

Well, "hot" might be an oxymoron when discussing the 7X57mm, if not for the fact that a lot of 7mm Rem. Mag. loads these days hadn't been reduced to what I can do with a 7X57!!!!

Trapper P,
Yes my loads as stated are probably too hot unless the rifle has a 30-06 magazine and is throated to match such as some Mausers and the old Brnos M-21 and 22..that in effect is the same thing as Improving the champer, as it makes for more powder space, about 7% as I recall...

The 7x57 is a great rifle, low on recoil and hell for leather in killing power, its all about penitration and that long as a no. 2 pencil 175 gr. bullet just gets in there and does the job, much the same any long for caliber bullet such as the 200 gr. Nosler in the 30-06, it will kill about anything on earth...

The secret for killing very large heavy boned animals is long for caliber, properly constructed bullets, caliber is far less important...although the advent of monolithics has changed that somewhat, but then again they can be applied to the 7x57 also, and Lord knows how far they will penitrate in game out of that little caliber...

Just some thoughts for whatever they are worth...

Ray, would you have a starting charge and a primer for the H414 with the 160 gr bullet. I'm running a short barrel, and my imr4350 is just a bit too slow. Am also going to work up loads with Varget because of our cold weather. Have you tried that yet ??
(PS Isn't it a beautiful round, all long and slender)

Quote:

---

[It ain't what you say, it is what ya do. Rocky Marciano]

Well,
I'm not Ray,but I can tell you that 45 grains of 414,and a WLRMP worked pretty well in my M-77 in Graf & Sons brass with a 160 Grand Slam.
Mike

Grape, I used to shoot a 160-grain Nosler Partiton from my 22" 7X57 Rugers at 2820 FPS, but have switched to the 175-grain Partiton at 2700 +, with good accuracy too! I first developed such a load using Norma N205, switched to MRP when it replaced N205, and now use RE 22 to get 2720 FPS.

Russ,

Unstylish? You should be flogged for that comment. A 7x57 cartridge exudes classic style Comparing it to some of the whiz-bang modern rounds is like comparing Audrey Hepburn to Pamela Anderson.

Jeff

"I believe that penitration is number one in killing power, that equates to sectional density, whatever you can add to that is just iceing on the cake and this applies especially to the big animals that are immune to "shock" for all practical purposes...destruction of lungs, heart, and the stoppage of oxygen to the brain is what kills animals..Energy is for folks that read too many gun magazines IMO...."

Mr. Atkinson........
I'm with you one hundred percent on your recent comments on the 7x57. I realized, perfectly well, the point of your statement regarding the .220 Swift and the Nitro Express rifles, and I FULLY understand your comment on published energy figures being for those who love to read and spout off numbers as being the gospel and final word.
Anyone with experience, and I mean hands on field experience, will have to agree with your statements on this old, antique, outdated, un-stylish, caliber.
It has, it was, and it will, kill...way beyond it's paper ballistic potential. This cartridge alone should tell us there is a problem in how we calculate (and accept) ballistic formulas as being the final word in killing power.
These "paper values" that we value so highly just ain't a true picture......Plain and simple.
As the old saying goes "I'm smart enough to realize there's problem, I just ain't smart enough to fix it".
And, untill it is "fixed", we will continue to hear the Subject Matter Experts spout off numbers that have very little meaning in the real world of taking game.
Respectfully, Russ

The real advantage with the 260/7-08 is their avaliability in strong modern short actions. I have a 7-08 VSL. That said if I can ever find a small ring intermediate 98 action I'll build a 7x57. capt david

The Eternal Myth of Bell and his famous 7x57 !

Though Bell did shoot a great many Elephant with his 7x57's, yes more than one there is proof and therefore proof to the contrary that John Taylors assertion in a few what would be seemingly "immortal words" was flat wrong. The Taylor assertion then perpetuated annually and verbatum by Frank Barnes's COW

Bell shot some of his elephant with 7x57's but not all !

Other calibers, notably a 6.5 MS, a 303 and some were used as well.

In a well researched article in Man Magnum Gregor Woods explores the myth under "For Whom The Bell tolls".

The article exposes what Bell hunted with and when, it shows the discrepancies in timeline as well as his own contradictions in the books he wrote and finally looks at Rigby ledgers of when his famous rifles were ordered and delivered. Some of these rifle were of the No2. variety, ie for the 120 gr bullet and thus not suited or used in elephant hunting.

eldeguello.... Yes!! I hold my shots down to under 300 yards (or much less if i have the option).... 2700 fps in that very heavy and VERY LONG (thank you Trapper) bullet is exactly what I am looking for.
Starting dose of the Reloader 22 ??
........... THANKS ................

O Connor used H4831 with a 160 grain bullet at about 2660fps, not really a weak load in his wife's rifle. He probably used the H4831 for the same reason everyone else did in those days, it worked and was cheap as hell as military surplus. Loading the 7x57 to 2700-2800 fps with 160's isn't a stretch and my H414 load shoots .75-.9 in a beat up old Ruger 77 MKIi and has worked in all of them I've tried.

The load that gives me 2720 FPS is 54 grains of RE 22 with Federal 210 primers. I'd start at least 5% lower than that, or more, since I understand that there's some variation from lot to lot. In addition, my Rugers have long throats!!

I load my cases in three increments, about 1/3 of the charge each time, and tap the case a number of times between increments in order to settle it enough to get it all in. If you just dump it from the scale pan into a powder funnel, it overflows the case! It ends up leaving about 1/2 of the case neck empty to start the bullet after you have settled the charge. (Remington brass). It is of course a compressed load, but doesn't swell the case shoulder any. As I've said before, I'm convinced it is NOT POSSIBLE to get enough RE22 into a 7X57mm case to be dangerous with any bullet up to 175 grains. I don't know if this would still be true if you were using the Barnes Original 195-grain bullet, though!

Good Luck!!

My favorite all-around light recoil rifle and has a rather exotic history to boot. I can load mine to 2800 with 160 Noslers and have shot bunches of deer, as well as a kudu, gemsbuck, etc. in Africa. It's just one of those that just keeps stacking up game with good velocity, but not so much that bullet performance becomes a problem. i've always thought that's why it and the .30-06 as well as the .375 H&H work so well, as there velocity range kills well with standard type bullets, even better with the premium ones.

With my "long throated Brno", I have shot a 175 gr. bullet at 2864 5 shot average, with x grains of H414, and I shot one case 14 times without ruining the case with that load...

My standard load is not that hot however, but it is 2800 FPS with a 175 gr. Nosler with H414...This load also chronographed the same out of a G33-40 Mauser I built with a long throat and 06 length magazine....

I have been shooting these loads for the last 20 years, brass lasts forever and velocity is way beyond anything else I have found...

I won't publish some of my tests on the long throated 7x57 simply because it would create a reaction from many who have not even tested the rifle/load etc, but I am confident that healthy doses of H414 in a long throated rifle will make a 280 and in some cases a factory loaded 7 mag. look pretty poor...

Ray,
I may have missed it somewhere in this thread but just how deep is your throat on that Brno 7X57? The reason I ask is because last winter I built a 7X57 on a Brno (Mauser 98) action and mated it to a very good Military barrel. I know it is deep throated but I've haven't measured it. I am probably jumping to conclusions but I assume the deep throat is what is keeping the pressure to a safe level in your rifle. I've only shot the rifle a half dozen time and it looks to be a good shooter. I cut the barrel at 25" and my plan all along for this rifle was to "see just what I could safely push it too". I will be working up loads with 140 grain Hornady Interlocks. Any thoughts or suggestions on a starting point for this one?

Ray
As one seventysomthing YO to another I have to agree on
all the BS about energy. Bigger holes is better.
Lyle

I believe that by the end of his ivory hunting, Bell had settled on the .318 WR with solids as his favorite. It had clear superiority to the 7x57 and still recoiled very little compared to such boomers as the .450 NE. Bell was not a large man and it appears that he was definitely recoil shy. He overcame this by constant dry-firing practice and by having the good fortune to hunt elephants while they were still fairly trusting. No one would be able to do the same thing today, no matter how good a shot he or she might be. So let's give the story a rest and restrict our use of the lovely Mauser to game under 500 lbs. (225 kilos) where it has been doing solid and reliable work for over a hundred years and will likely continue to do so into the misty future.

.

W.D.M Bell "killed a record 1,011 elephants, over 800 of them with the (British) version of the 7X57mm Mauser cartridge", using 173-grain Kynoch military ball ammo.

It's moving hearing from the 7x57. I feel it like an ancient calibre, the one my father in law used in his drilling. Lots of pals have inherited 7x57, but very few are using it. 7x57 isn't bad, but cannot compete with modern ammos.That's a sweetie, slow, accurate enough, but the punch is desperately not present.Don't deal with the shoulder of a medium size stag, don't pretend to stop a running boar. And God Gracious, grandpa will not feel at ease in Africa.
Nostalgia, nostalgia!!!!!!!
LARCHER

I must Disagree with jbd,
In its traditional rifles the old mausers and such what you say is true, but in a new modern rifle especially one witch allows you to seat the bullet out a ways, with good hand loads the mauser will beat the 7mm08 hands down and the velocity I am getting from my 20.5 inch CZ has me going to the gun show this weekend to sell my model 77MK2 .280, I have chatted with a guy who gets 2900 fps with 160s from his 98 mauser with 0 preasure signs and I have gotten 2850 with 150s using-414. The 7X57 is a excelent preformer and in my opinion in the right rifle gives up very little to the 7mm saum...tj3006