9,3-404, New big game thumper ?

15 October 2002, 00:32

<JOHAN>

Gentlemen

Our dear host Saeed has built quite a few rounds on the 404 case. I have been thinking how a 9,3-404 would be for big game hunting.

The 9,3 caliber is close to the 375 and you can find bullets up to 320-300 grains, which would have better or just as good SD as the 375. A new all around cartridge for big game/ African hunting

Is there anyone who have any experience? Has it been done before.

Cheers
/ JOHAN

[ 10-14-2002, 15:38: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

21 October 2002, 22:11

Flip

I have to agree, maybe we should ask Saeed to maybe try building one and see how it perform

22 October 2002, 02:29

packrattusnongratus

Saeed. I know you like to experiment. Have you done anything in this caliber? Packy

22 October 2002, 03:23

Dave James

Hope one of you jumps on it,after reading about the 9.3x70, 9.3x404 might just be the way to go.

22 October 2002, 04:39

DB Bill

Given that those who build and shoot wildcat cartridges don't need a "reason" to do it, I'm baffled a bit why the 9.3 over the .375. There are a lot more bullets of various types available in .375 than there are in 9.3 and of course for those not in Europe barrels are easier to get.

22 October 2002, 05:40

BER007

Dave James,

That will be pretty cool. Ilove the 9.3 caliber and think is a great and versatile caliber. just me 0.02 cts

22 October 2002, 07:40

<JOHAN>

DB BILL

There are quite a number of bullets for the 9,3. In USA, Nosler, Barnes, SWIFT, Speer. In Europe we have, NORMA, RWS, S&B, Hirtemberger, Blaser, Lapua, SAKO. I'm sure there are a few more. Not to forget the great Woodleigh from down under [Big Grin]

Most bullets in 9,3 are from 250-300 grains, which is in the same ball park as 375. I think you should get a 9,3 and give it a try [Big Grin]

Remember what we agreed on those gun vaults [Big Grin]

Start off with a 9,3X62.

/ JOHAN

[ 10-21-2002, 22:42: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

22 October 2002, 08:08

Ray, Alaska

How about a .338-404 instead? It would be a wildcat of course, but maybe close to the .338RUM (?). There is a .338-404 in the "Reloading pages," I believe.

There are a great number of .33 bullets from 160 grains all the way to 300, and as you may know some .33 bullets have great SD. The following is a partial list of Swift A-Frame bullets, but Woodleigh makes 300 grainers for the .338, and these should have higher SD than the 250 grainers below.

(CAL, WT, BC, SD)

.338 225 .384 .281
.338 250 .427 .313
.338 275 .469 .344

.358 225 .312 .251
.358 250 .347 .279
.358 280 .388 .312

.366 250 .285 .267
.366 300 .342 .320

.375 250 .271 .254
.375 270 .349 .274
.375 300 .325 .305

.411 350 .328 .296
.411 400 .375 .338

.416 350 .321 .289
.416 400 .367 .330

22 October 2002, 10:59

<JOHAN>

Ray, Alaska

Why? There is already a 338-404, a 338 G&A and a 338 ultra mag plus the 338 Imperial magnum . All are in the same ball park. Ross Seyfried and Tom Siatos has made several wildcats on the 404 case, but never a 9,3.

I have never been reading an article about a 9,3-404, soo why not. Woodleigh makes 320 grainers for the 9,3 [Big Grin]

The 9,3 would be a very close competitor to the 375 [Big Grin]

22 October 2002, 20:18

Ol Bull

I have a friend who has a 9.3 on a 375 Dakota case. It's a fine rifle built on an FN Mauser action with a Kreiger barrel. I've been trying for a couple of years to buy it and just last week he agreed [Big Grin]

29 October 2002, 03:43

mehulkamdar

Johan,

Harald Wolf has been experimenting with reviving the 9.3x70 and you can read about it on his website www.hataritimes.com He has put his experimental rifle on sale and should offer ammunition for it. Do check the site out.

Good shooting!

29 October 2002, 06:31

Customstox

Johan,
9.3 barrels are also very easy to get and readily available. Whether you order a .375 or a 9.3 makes no difference. sounds like an interesting one.

29 October 2002, 08:14

<JOHAN>

quote:
Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
Johan,

Harald Wolf has been experimenting with reviving the 9.3x70 and you can read about it on his website www.hataritimes.com He has put his experimental rifle on sale and should offer ammunition for it. Do check the site out.

Good shooting!

Thanks for reminding me..

I have read this article soo many times that I know it by heart. I guess, I have to start reading backwards [Big Grin]

I find it strange that hatari times never send me an complimentary copy, neither does this gentlemen replies to any e-mails. I wonder how the distribution of magazines are working, all issues once a year, at the same time [Big Grin]

/ JOHAN

29 October 2002, 20:12

Daniel M

Hola Johan

Really there is two options , love or hate Harald Wolf , I'm in the last option , I can't understand that one person made the rifles , develop the ammo and rifles , reload ammo , work as PH in Africa , and have time to be the publisher of a magazine to let know the rest of the world the GOOD , Ammo / Rifle Maker , gunsmith , PH , reporter HE is , ( as I can't remember he give credit to other persons )

Saludos

Daniel

30 October 2002, 02:44

mehulkamdar

Johan, Daniel M,

If any of you knows Harald Wolf, I am a magazine editor on a sabbatical since I resigned my last job early in 2002. [Big Grin]

If he needs an editor who could keep the magazine going regularly, I could definitely do it for him and if he lets me shoot the guns he makes, it would be a bonus! [Big Grin]

If all the disappointed subscribers to Hatari Times would only recomment me for this post, they are assured of getting their copies regularly. I have a good record and anyone who wants to only has to speak to my employers if they like. [Big Grin]

Good shooting!

30 October 2002, 05:52

<JOHAN>

mehulkamdar

I suggest that you contact mr Wolf. perhaps he need some help.

Daniel M. I have nothing against Senior Wolf personally, but I hate to wait for some things [Big Grin]

I guess he are in need of some help with his magazine. It's good that he tried to beath new life in this old cartridge. I guess he's a nice chapp. I think the magazine is great compared to the other raggs

Adios

/ JOHAN

30 October 2002, 08:32

D Humbarger

What case is the 9.3x70 made from?

31 October 2002, 04:07

mehulkamdar

JOHAN,

I took your advice and did mail Mr Wolf and he replied rightaway that he cannot consider my aplication due to "budgetary constraints".

Wish that he would somehow overcome them! The man is a genius and he probably has very exacting standards and believes that no one can do anything better than himself. If he ends up killing his enterprise, the loss won't be his alone! [Frown]

31 October 2002, 05:19

<JOHAN>

quote:
Originally posted by Bear Claw:
What case is the 9.3x70 made from?

A slightly shortend 404 Jeffery.

09 November 2002, 20:55

Atkinson

I can tell you right now the 320 gr. Woodleigh will come apart like a bomb when stressed to the velocities capable of the 9.3-404...that bullet was designed for the 360 #2 double rifle for goodness sakes, just because a bullet is heavy does not mean it is heavly constructed...Sure it will work in a 9.3x62 or perhaps even a 9.3x64 but never in a 9.3x404.

I don't know of a 9.3 bullet manufactured today that will stand that velocity except perhaps the Barnes X and I am betting it blows all the peddles off them...

Better the 375-404 with the available bullets and I bet saeed will tell you to use Barnes X.

12 November 2002, 07:51

<JOHAN>

Atkinson

I guess you are right. Swift, Barnes and some south african companies makes bullets that should perform well in this velocity.

I think the 320 grain sold would be the most interesting to use.

/ JOHAN

15 November 2002, 14:53

Atkinson

Since you live in Sweeden and 9.3x64 is probably available, then that would be my choice..

Actually if I wanted an interresting Wildcat I would neck the 300 H&H up or the 375 H&H down and take advantage of that sloping case for sure extraction of an overload or stressed brass..Yes, the belt still has a place in the scheme of things and that is on the sloping 300 H&H case to be applied for dangerous game.

17 November 2002, 15:08

Curtis_Lemay

anyone ever tried necking a .416 rigby down to 9.3 cal?

20 November 2002, 10:09

Atkinson

We are pushing the over bore capacity of the 9.3 on this thread...A point of deminishing returns.

21 November 2002, 07:43

<JOHAN>

Why no 9,3-416?
Becuase it is to much powder in that case to performance is not a deal better than the 404. Alot extra powder for very little extra gain in velocity.
Or in other words, it's well over the level for overbore.

27 November 2002, 01:34

finnwolf

Johan!
Have you heard of the new Sako 9,3x66 cartridge? The performance is quite equal to 9,3x64. Sako will offer four factory loads for thier 9,3x66 with Nosler ball.tip 250 grs, Barnes X 285 grs, Barnes 285 grs Solid and Sako 285 grs Hammerhead bullets. Promised velocities with 285 grs 2560 fps. The 9,3x66 will of course be available in the Sako 75..
The advantage over the 9,3x64 is that the 66 has the same diameter that a 30-06, 9,3x62 etc.
and therefore fits a standard bolt without modifications.

The new 9,3x66 isn't in Sakos catalogue yet. I read about it in a Finnish guns&hunting- magazine("Ase&Erï¿½") aprox. 2 or 3 months ago...

-finnwolf-

27 November 2002, 04:24

ALF

27 November 2002, 06:16

HunterJim

There is a left-handed bolt action rifle in 9.3-.404 for sale as part of the Col. Charles Askins estate sale (by his son).

He was a well-known American gun writer for those who don't recognize the name.

Check this URL for the list of firearms, including the 9.3-.404.

http://www.colaskinshunting.com

jim dodd

28 November 2002, 13:31

<JOHAN>

quote:
Originally posted by ALF:
It is interesting that one would attack Mr. Wolff for making a rifle in a known pre-existing caliber
or for his lifestyle for that matter?

I think you missundestood me. I sent a few e-mails to Mr. Wolf without any reply and asked for a copy of his magazine and had to wait three months. I find it most hard to consider it an attack against Mr. Wolf in any way nor his lifestyle. I simply stated how I were treated, nothing more or less [Confused]

Soo, whats the problem?? [Eek!]

/ JOHAN

14 May 2006, 23:43

mr rigby

OTHER BULLETS THAT WOULB BE PERFECT IS 300 GRS SWIFT AFRAME AND RHINO WOULD BE FINE. BUT THE WOODLEIGH 320 GRS HAS A THICK JACKET AND IT WOULD ALSO BE FINE FOR THE 9,3X70 THAT HERMANN GÃ˜RING ALSO USED.

15 May 2006, 05:01

lawndart

DWM did such an experiment in 1928.

It is called the 9.3 Expert Magnum.

Brass is available from Reimer Johannsen.

Reamers are available from Dave Kiff.

Dies are available from Treibel.

You need a 26" barrel.

Plan on 2,900 fps for the 286 grain bullets.

LD

15 May 2006, 06:16

willmckee

as hunter jim noted abt col. charles askins rifle, the colonel wrote up that wildcat near 30 years ago so don't nobody go thinking they just hit on somethin new. i've still got that article but forget which book it's in, maybe one of the old G&A annuals. my recollection - and it hasn't been too long ago i read it - is that at that time he'd not yet had it to africa but had killed i think a brownie, a grizzly and a moose with it.

roger

15 May 2006, 08:39

Bren Mk1

Gents;

I'm a long-time fan of the .404 Jeffery, so please don't take this amiss.

When Remington created the RUM series of cartridges, they were all basically an improved and necked-down .404 Jeffery. If that's the "case" (and it IS), then it seems that the .375 RUM is almost exactly what the thread is discussing--an improved, necked-down .404, with the variation that the 9.3 is nominally .009 inches smaller in bullet diameter than the .375 RUM. Might's well call the proposed round a 9.3-.375 RUM, n'est-ce pas?

That is, unless the intent is to retain the long, sloping shoulder of the original .404, but I fail to see much point in doing that. Case volume does represent horsepower, and restricting it seems sorta dumb. .404 feeding is exceedingly slick with the tapered case, but I've seen some RUMs that were pretty danged smooth, too.

There ARE bullets which will work at higher speeds, and I'm thinking of the new Barnes 9.3 TSXs. However, when I think about the proposal, I keep bumping into the fact that the factory .375 RUM will do precisely the same job. Of course, it's not "different", and many wildcats have been launched which delivered very much the same performance as factory chamberings, but WERE "different", even so.

I'm the last guy to criticise anyone for wanting something different, too. If you like the idea, then GO for it!!! Just wanted to point out how close the proposed wildcat is to the existing .375.

15 May 2006, 23:11

jeffeosso

cheaper would be a 9,3x375 rum...
factory would be the 375 rum, loaded down

another choice is the 9,3x68 or 64

the last 2 don't require huge mods

jeffe

16 May 2006, 01:58

George Semel

Its been done, 330 Dakota is a slightly shorten 404 Jeffery necked down to .338. Why would you want to go thru all the BS to make a 9.3 - 404 is byond me. Sort of like what Weatherby did with the3 375. First the 375 Weatherby, but it was not enough so Weatherby came out with the 378. A cartridge that is at best useless. To much of a good thing some say. Saeed has a .375-404 that he shoots and shoots very well. Me I never saw the need, the 375 H+H is about perfect as it gets, the 9.3 x 62 or 64 or 74 is about as good as it gets.