Why have people chosen the 270 WSM over the 7mm WSM?

I can't understand how a light recoiling caliber, which offers better bullet selection flopped while the 270 remains alive?

Has it Flopped? I just got one and boy is it a shooter.

i don't know if it has actually "flopped" or not, but, the same group of "gun expert" consumer types that buy into the new and fabulous short mag trendy hype are mostly the same group that don't/can't identify and/or never learned the differences between the 7x57 and the 7 rem mag. they are all "7-m-m's, one of those german army cartridges" to them. but they do know that a .270 is a good shooter because every store that sells rifles stocks what they sell in .270 and .30-'06, so they see the boxes of bullets on the shelves at deer season time and every field and stream type rag has stories about the .270 in them.
i once had a buddy at work ask me, "why one company call the 7-m-m a ( "7x57 mauser") and one company calls it a ("7-m-m remington magnum"), aren't they the same thing"?.... he was shooting a savage .270.

It hasn't really flopped. The WSSM's are flops. The fact that the 7mmWSM got a late start compared to the 270WSM and 300WSM hurt it some. Most did not take to the shoulder being pushed forward by .035" on the 7.

The 270WSM has very little competition with only two other factory chamberings offered.

Remington is the one who missed the boat, again. The SAUM case design is a better fit for short actions, but they only offered it in the Model 7 with 22" barrels to start with. Most Remington buyers want the Model 700 and a magnum lentgth barrel in a magnum cartridge. Instead of intrducing a 6.5SAUM and a 35SAUM, Reming-dumb re-introduced the 6.5 and 350 Rem mags. Nothing wrong with those, for they were ahead of their time, but they do not carry the "new" beltless factor that was the driving force of the short mags.

The 7-WSM is a good one. If I build a custom 7 short it will be a 7mm-300WSM so I can retain some neck length.

Why shouldn't it flop? it does nothing that hasn't been done a hundred years before it. roger

The 7mm WSM never had a chance. The 7mm Rem Mag has such a following and ease of finding rifle and ammo combinations, it just commercially overwhelms the WSMs. Availabilty was a BIG issue. The entire line of WSMs are a commercial flop in the Browning line and Winchester stopped producing rifles right in the middle of the WSM marketing campaign. It's really a shame as I firmly believe the 7 WSM case is the best of the WSMs.

The 7mm WSM slipped behind the 270 WSM because of a mistake by Winchester. When first introduced both cartridges had the same headspace and that means a 7mm WSM might have been fired in a 270 WSM.

Winchester forgot to do what Remington did right when making the headspace of the 280 Remington longer than the 270 Winchester so that it could not be chambered in a 270 Win.

The 7mm WSM rifles were recalled and the cartridge was redesigned. That set it way back in the market. Too bad as I prefer the 7mm bore to the .277.

the 7sm is a fine cartridge but, most who thought they needed it already owned the rem long version.
the fact win was going out of business didn't help.
the one i am looking for is a 7saum that is a good design,rem got it right.
just don't want it on a rem platform,too bad noone else will make it.
sure would like a new hawkeye in it.

it flopped because it was no real competition to the 7mmremmag and win dropped the ball in marketing/production. i have a fried who has a 7wsm and the only factory ammo he can find is 140gr rem, for alomost 40.00 a box. no other 7wsm stuff is available within 100 miles. i'd say it is about as dead as a factory round can get. too bad cause it is a decent round.

It really is a shame the 7wsm did not pick up sales like the 270 and 300. With the great selection of bullets in .284 it should have been a shoe in. But, its hard to compete with the 7RM....look at all its competitors just in the mag range....7STW, 7RUM, 3 Lazzeroni 7s, 7 Wby, 7 Dakota, 7RSAUM, not to mention slower offerings like the 7x57, 7-08, 280 Rem, 284 Win, 280 AI which comes dang close to 7RM #s....7mm is a crowded, fickle market. The 300wsm worked cause we Americans love our 30's and it seems there is always room for more! The 270wsm was more of an empty market, and it fit perfectly between the 270 Win and 270 Wby, having more range/power then the first but cheaper and more available rifles and ammo then the later.

I bought a 7wsm myself a few months ago. Its a Win 70 Coyote, and I bought it for long range antelope hunting. It will fit the bill perfectly, and the extra long magazine of the M70 will allow me to use the new 180gr Bergers and be able to seat the bullet farther out so I can still retain some velocity.

Gander Mountain has quite a few M70s in 7wsm on sale for the last few months, in many models. The 270, 300, 325s are all full price but it seems they are closing out the 7s. Plenty of ammo too, Federal and Winchester. GM has a TON of 160gr FailSafes for like 35$ a box. If this was an elk rifle I would be buying that stuff up left and right!

I have a winchester model 70 supershadow that I would part with. Shot the gun 5 times wasn't my cup of tea. I would have been happier with 7mm rem mag

If someone is happy with a 7wsm , it dont matter too much how many others buy one.
There was no great needy reason for the 270win to become as popular as it has, (with .264 & .284 already in exhistence), but good marketing can do wonders..
the .284 win never hit the heights either, but then neck it to 6.5mm and people take it onboard,...go figure
If someone factoried the 6.5/06, would it become well desired?

Flop? You want flop have a look at the Remington SAUMs...

i'm surprised all of the WSMs haven't flopped - reinventing the wheel usually isn't very profitable.

I for one am glad the 7saum flopped because I picked up a model 7 laminate in the 7mm variety for under $400 including tax.I love how the gun carries, handles and I like the looks too. Its just another 7mm mag to me, but it shoots well.

quote:

Why has 7mm WSM flopped?

Answer: 7mm Renington Magnum

Much as you'll see many people on these forums who almost literally "foam at the mouth" in their hatred for the 7mmRemMag, the 7mmRemMag is one of the five most popular rifle cartridges and has been for better than 40 years.

(It should be noted that many of those people would likely rant about the 30-06 if they were (justifiably) worried about getting burned at the stake for Heresy)

that being said, it's no small wonder that any other attempt at making a popular 7mm Cartridge has been a relative flop.

Not even remington succeded, they tried TWICE, if you don't count their legitimizing the 7mmSTW, and their own 7mmRUM, the "other two" are the 280/7mmRemExpress/280rem and the 7mmSAUM
so I guess you can say they tried FOUR times.

Ok Five times because the fifth attempt didn't fail.... the 7mm-08Rem is in no way a failure or flop.

the mystery is why the hell didn't winchester make it forty years earlier?

winchester tried several times as well, their 284Win (flop)
the 7-30waters (flop) and finally the 7mmWSM.

You'd think people would learn.

Hell, it almost makes me thing that the marketing people who think this shit up are liberal/Dumbocrats, because they keep re-trying things that haven't worked in the past

AD

If someone factoried the 6.5/06, would it become well desired?[/QUOTE]

For about two years roger

quote:

For about two years

ypu might be correct, but i would definitely be on that particular bandwagon.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:



Ok Five times because the fifth attempt didn't fail.... the 7mm-08Rem is in no way a failure or flop.

In your dreams Allan. That cartridge brought nothing to the table. roger

If I made you think, Whatever

Yes it really did fail 5 times. The first 200 rifles remington built in 280 were stamped 7mm-06.They recalled them but only got 40 back. So only 160 or so in circulation. A friend of mine has one in his collection. Might have done better if they left that 06 at the end.

I actually think the WSMs are fine calibers. I'm willing to bet if Rem and Win knew then what they know now, we wouldn't have the 7mm Rem mag or 300 Win mag if the WSMs came out first.

As far as various calibers bringing something to the table, well, I suppose we could exclude about 50% or more in existance.

I agree Doc, in reality though I love my old 270, we could have a 22-250, 25-06, 30-06, 300 Weatherby (for those long shots) 375 H&H, a 416, 458 a 500 and do away with the rest. But what fun would that be?

Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
I agree Doc, in reality though I love my old 270, we could have a 22-250, 25-06, 30-06, 300 Weatherby (for those long shots) 375 H&H, a 416, 458 a 500 and do away with the rest. But what fun would that be?

Chuck

I too love my 270s. I will never be without one (or 2). As far as doing away with the rest and what fun it would be, I was being "practical."

If it's all about fun, then we indeed have a caliber SHORTAGE!

Seriously though, can you imagine if we had at least 3 WSMs and the 2 SAUMs for the past 60 or so years?

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
As far as various calibers bringing something to the table, well, I suppose we could exclude about 50% or more in existance.

excluding almost all cartridges, and leaving only 20 left, would be a wet dream for me.

My point of view; If emotions and sentement are left out of the equation, If you bring out a devise to compete in an already BLOATED market, what chance of success do you have? Popularity is all about sales numbers and new witsits do not always generate increased sales.

I like this one:" When going through life brothers no matter what your goal, keep your eye on the donut and not on the hole" Anon. roger

quote:

Originally posted by merlinron:
i don't know if it has actually "flopped" or not, but, the same group of "gun expert" consumer types that buy into the new and fabulous short mag trendy hype are mostly the same group that don't/can't identify and/or never learned the differences between the 7x57 and the 7 rem mag. they are all "7-m-m's, one of those german army cartridges" to them. but they do know that a .270 is a good shooter because every store that sells rifles stocks what they sell in .270 and .30-'06, so they see the boxes of bullets on the shelves at deer season time and every field and stream type rag has stories about the .270 in them.
i once had a buddy at work ask me, "why one company call the 7-m-m a ( "7x57 mauser") and one company calls it a ("7-m-m remington magnum"), aren't they the same thing"?.... he was shooting a savage .270.

Your comments may have been true before the Internet but now people aren't so ignorant.

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
The 7mm WSM never had a chance. The 7mm Rem Mag has such a following and ease of finding rifle and ammo combinations, it just commercially overwhelms the WSMs. Availabilty was a BIG issue. The entire line of WSMs are a commercial flop in the Browning line and Winchester stopped producing rifles right in the middle of the WSM marketing campaign. It's really a shame as I firmly believe the 7 WSM case is the best of the WSMs.

Can't build a 7mm Rem. Magnum on a short action. What I can't understand is reasoning for the person who wants to build a light recoiling long range mountain gun on a short action. Why choose the 270 WSM over the 7mm WSM. The increase in recoil is negligable.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:

quote:

Why has 7mm WSM flopped?

Answer: 7mm Renington Magnum

Can't build one on a short action. I know, I don't care about short actions but some do.

I suppose that by using the word "flopped" you mean that it didn't meet up to some expectation, whatever that was. Did anyone expect it to replace the 7mm RM or 280 or whatever? They didn't ask my opinion, but if they had, I would have told them not likely.

In my book it didn't flop, because it filled the niche that was there - which wasn't much.

Sure it is a good cartridge, but if I am an example of the guys who like the 7mm, but already have what's needed, such as 7/08, 7x57, 280, and 7mm mag, then I have no intentions of owning a 7mm WSM, unless of course someone gives me one. Which ain't likely.

Actually I feel that way about all the short mags, except perhaps the Ruger, which I haven't made up my mind about yet.

KB

It's strange the cartridges people dislike. I'm not really a WSM fan, but I somehow wound up with a 270, 7mm and 300 WSM. The 7mm comes the closest to actually performing the way the WSM's where first advertised. Mine will slightly out perform my 7 RM with a 26" barrel. The 270 was supposed to perform as well as the Weatherby and the 300 WSM was to perform a well as the 300 WM, which they don't. This has been my experience anyways.

My idiosyncrasy is the metric cartridges. When the conversation turns to 7x57 or 9.3x64 I start to yawn. I'm sure their great cartridges, but I just don't have any interest. But if you want to talk about the 280 or 375 H&H I'm in there. For some reason I'm okay with the 7mm. It must be because I grew up with the 7mm-08, 7mm Remington and Weatherby mags, and they're American cartridges. I know it doesn't make sense and I'm not putting down anyone's favorite cartridge.

Hi Fella's, Don't know about any flop situation, What I do know from my own experience is, I own & shoot both the .270Win (Sako) & 7mm WSM (Howa-Hogue) have loads of brass for both, 130grain Remmy soft points thru .270 & 162grain V-max thru 7mm, Very happy with both, quite a few buddies have the Howa too!, Steve.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Why shouldn't it flop? it does nothing that hasn't been done a hundred years before it. roger

+ ONE

I think this is the best explanation right here.. mirrors exactly what I would say....

neat cartridge, but a "Me Too" cartridge...

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:



Ok Five times because the fifth attempt didn't fail.... the 7mm-08Rem is in no way a failure or flop.

In your dreams Allan. That cartridge brought nothing to the table. roger

If I made you think, Whatever

We're not talking "brought nothing to the party" the discussion is about commercial success.

Off your Alzheimers meds again?

Try to pay attention.

But the 7mm-08 sells, so do loading tools and materials for it.

It does "bring something to the party" 1mm more than the 243Win.

The WSM/SAUM etc tried to "repackage" the classic 7mmRem 300Win mags into a short action package.

Personally I have no problem either carrying an extra 0.4" slice of rifle through the magazine, receiver, bolt & Stock without suffering a collapased shoulder, and pulling the bolt back an extra 0.4" doesn't throw my elbow out of joint...

Yes, on a Rem 700 the difference between a short action and a long action is just under 7/16".

Hardly sounds worth all the bother.

the 270WSM beat the 7mmWSM because "270" is associated with winchester, 7mm isn't.

That's the condensed version.

AD

Ask this question over at snipershide.com and you will get the opposite answer. The consensus over there is the 7mmWSM is one of the best long range cartridges to come about and the 7mm RM is useless for these guys types of shooting. You know belt head space etc. It is far from dead with the tactical and tacticool crowd. I have 3 all with different twist Rock barrels for different bullets. Mine all shoot better than any 7mmRM I have ever owned.

so is that why the 300wm is so inaccurate, because of the belt, etc.?

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:
so is that why the 300wm is so inaccurate, because of the belt, etc.?

Notice I said these guys not myself. Won't argue with you about something I don't care about. Just offering a different view from a web sight more geared towards looong range tactical shooting as opposed to a more hunting sight like accuratereloading. And yes in my experience the 7mmRM is less accurate than the 7mmWSM just my experience. Have never owned a 300WM. Owned a 300 WEA it was ok. My 7.62 warbird shoots lights out. For me the beltless cartridges are still in my safe and the belted other than a 375 WEA are gone. Not for any real reason othe than preference.

Remember that most new calibers is not invented because of the need for a new caliber.
Most new calibers is invented by big riflemanufactures, without the capability to come up with anything new according to rifles.
Then the only way to generate publicity and get tests of their old slaves, is to invent yet another new "miracle" caliber. Now they have the chance for another another another test of the ancient remmington 700 or Winchester 70.

IMHO those calibers is deliberatly invented to flop, and next year all of the major companies comes up with yet another "miracle" caliber, and all the free testings continue.
Remember a free test is way cheaper as a similar add.

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:
so is that why the 300wm is so inaccurate, because of the belt, etc.?

Yeah, Somehow I don't see Carlos Hathcock giving back his Wimbledon Cup because he won it shooting a 300Winchester Mag.



AD

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bartsche:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:

We're not talking "brought nothing to the party" the discussion is about commercial success. Why Gee Whiz! I think I said that earlier in this thread

Off your Alzheimers meds again? Well perhaps a little of that also

roger