I am thinking about building a .358 STA (Shooting Times Alaskan), anyone out there using one, and if so, what are you using it in, and how does it perform?

Dave

Simpson did it at about the same time as he built the STW. Called it the 358 STA. (Shooting Times Alaskan)

It's a pretty powerful round but you have to be sure you like the bullets that are out now because no one is going to ramp up a lot of new choices when 95% of the use for them is 358 Win or 35 Whelan. The velocities of the STW really strain most .358 bullets.

OTOH, if you jump up to .375 (as in the 375 Weatherby/375 H&H AI) you get the same basic round with better bullets for the velocities involved. Just my opinion but I think the 358 Norma Mag is about the best .358 round based on the above logic.

loud-n-boomer I'm thinking of something similar.

I know about the 358 STA and think it beats the 358 Norma hands down.....but I still don't like belted cases for general reloading.

I'm thinking about building a 35/338 RUM or 35/300 RUM on a Ruger No 1.


I know the 35/300 will deliver more case capacity, but not sure I really need it, and it would be easier to neck up 338 RUMs than 300 RUMs.

I never load to top-end MAX anyway so believe a good 250 gr partition 35 cal bullet should perform well on a 35/338 RUM.

Barstooler

loud-n-boomer ----- I shoot two .358 STA's and have for three years now. There are several bullets that are adequate for the chambering. At this time you can shoot North Forks in 225, 250 and 270 grains that no other manufacturer can match, or Nosler Partition in 250 grains, Swift A-Frame in 250 and 280 grainers, Barnes Triple Shocks in 225 grains, Kodiak in 250 grains, and others. ----- I have taken my rifles to Colorado, Alaska, Canada and Africa and found nothing lacking on animals up to but not including Cape Buffalo. My PH in Africa said he would not be afraid for me to shoot a Buff with it using the 270 grain bullets. In my opinion it is better than the .375 H&H and compares to the .375 Weatherby, Ultra mag and .378 Wby. With my faster rifle I can shoot the 270 and 280 grain bullets an honest 3000 fps and with pinpoint accuracy at 2900 fps. I shoot a 225 grainer as fast as 3200 fps. Both of my rifles are custom jobs on Winchester Model 70 actions, one with the Winchester barrel and the other with a Lilja barrel. Layne Simpson had a great article about the chambering in the early 90's when he and Kenny Jarrett thought up the round, I will be glad to send you a copy. I had a .300 Winny and .340 Wby when I got the first .358 STA and was amazed at what it could do, then went on to the .416 Rem and Rigby when I started to think of Africa. The STA and the .416 of any kind were perfect for the African two rifle battery. Try one you might come to appreciate what it will do as much as I do. I know Lilja makes the barrels and the Magnum Model 70 actions will do, if you don't want to spend the big bucks for the expensive custom. Good luck and good shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
It's a pretty powerful round but you have to be sure you like the bullets that are out now because no one is going to ramp up a lot of new choices when 95% of the use for them is 358 Win or 35 Whelan. The velocities of the STW really strain most .358 bullets.

OTOH, if you jump up to .375 (as in the 375 Weatherby/375 H&H AI) you get the same basic round with better bullets for the velocities involved. Just my opinion but I think the 358 Norma Mag is about the best .357 round based on the above logic.

This is a good reply.

The problem with the .358 is that it's simply not a .375 H&H (legal requirement for many African hunts) and it's just a lot more than needed for run of the mill big game.

Simply stated it has no good use.

Not to be denied the reality that it's an extremely poweful round and load it with the 270 and 280 grain premium bullets it's easily as powerful as the old .375 H&H.

I disagree that the 358 sta is not really needed. You have obviously never had a shot at a bull moose 350 yd away down a cutline. With a 250 gr. Northfork @ 3100 fps. one can be very confident of a clean hit. I have 340wby and 375 wby. and a 35-404 imp. The 35's offer good downrange power with manageable recoil. You can shoot most everything with a 30-30 but why not take the best tool for the job?Mark

If I was serious about a .358 mag it'd be the .358 Norma. Having said that there's a reason why both these big .35 cal magnums are wildcats.....they do nothing the .338 won't do.

I agree with this statement.:

quote:

Simply stated it has no good use.

It's between two of the best magnums of all time...the .375 and the .338.

I have a model 70 classic in 7mmSTW. I have thought about having it rebarreld into an alaska and or African plains rifle. I think the .358 STA would be just dandy.
is it needed ? Who cares ? I am sure it would do great on grizly and most african animals too. Need has nothing to do with it. Sure a .375 would be as good. But the sta would be somthing out of the ordinary. And i have no problem with belts. they are not needed either but i never found them to be a problem ...tj3006

No good use?!!
Give me a break. How many different bulelts do we shot in each of our guns? I have a hard time dialing in two different bullet weights usually before I say "done."
All the Barnes X bullets will do fine at STA velocities, as will the NP, North Fork, A-Frame and the heavier Woodleighs if you give them some runway. Yes, you do have to watch what bullet you put in, but that's true for the 300 WM as well.
If you only get one rifle, and you want to shoot lots of stuff in Africa, then, no, this isn't for you. But a fast 270g North Fork or 280g A-Frame will hit hard, and an even faster 250g NP will go further than most of us will shoot and still hit hard. There is a use for big cases, and there are .358" bullets that can handle the task.
To get back to the Q, I don't have one, but from what I understand, Simpson's data is loaded pretty hot. There's plenty of people happy with hot loads, but I wanted 280g at 2800 fps with moderate pressures, so I too went with an improved 404 case. (The name, 9x72mm Bwana-be, takes on added meaning since you can't shoot DG in Africa with it!)
As it turns out, I was able to get 2900 from a 26" bbl without issue. I got up to 2950 before I got freaked out, but no major pressure signs. I'm certain this is at least "warm," but it's way more than I need for elk. I've gotten it dialed in a little lower than that, still crazy though.
If you like the ballistics of it, then go for it. Like any bigger case, you need to figure out gun fit, weight, etc, b/c it will kick you more than an H&H obviously.

quote:

With a 250 gr. Northfork @ 3100 fps

I've only loaded for one 358STA. We were blowing primers before we got even close to most of the velocities being quoted. My experience was I could get a 250 at 2900 - 2950 in a 26" above that was straining things. My 358Norma factory 250s with a 20" gave me 2700. The Norma would do anything I would ever need in a 358.

I pulled my STA barrel and sold it. Figured that if I needed something bigger then the 375 would be legal for african big game.

Everyone should shoot what they feel comfortable with. Having faith in your rifle is 80% of success.

My STA is on a Sako L691 action 28" Douglas barrel,Brown Precision stock.I have got 3170 from it but groups open up.You are entitled to your opinion but it will do alot more than any 338 including the 340Wby at similar pressures.Your experience with a bad barrel/chamber doesn't take any shine off the 35's. Mark

Have you checked out the 338 Rem Ultra Mag or the 338 Lapua. Either one does what your 358 stw does. Good shooting to ya!!

ramrod340 ----- If I had shot only one STA I probably would have experienced what you did. I have two STA's, one a Winchester Custom Shop product with the Winchester stainless barrel, the second the product of a rifle builder in Wyoming who made a rifle for his son, utilizing a Model 70 post 64 action and Custom Lilja barrel. The later rifle will produce 50 to 150 fps more speed on all bullet sizes with the same load (powder-primer-bullet) as the first rifle. I use a Oehler 35P chronograph and cronograph 98% of all my shots. I state this information to try to illustrate that I am not inflating speeds, in fact the speeds I quote are averages of as many as 40 groups of the same load. ----- Vapadog -- We all are entitled to our opinions and it is mine that the .358 STA will do many things better than the .338 Win, bigger bullets, more caliber diameter, faster bullets, better trajectories, more energy, etc. I have owned the .338, and still own a .340 Wby and .338 Lapua, still hunt with them and have taken many animals (Deer-Elk-one Moose) with them, and they are great but will not stand with a well loaded STA. I will state again that my STAs with my loads are superior to the .375 H&H, and equal to the faster .375's and near the .378 Wby, I have never seen a manual a good reloader cannot surpass. Yep, the STA is a wildcat, but factory produced by Winchester at one time through it's Custom Shop. I am not saying the mass of hunters will ever shoot it, but that does not take away from its status in the worlds chamberings that are extremely useful to an experienced loader and shooter-hunter of game. Superior Ammo now loads for it and with the North Fork bullets it is awesome indeed for a hunter going for the larger than Deer sized animals the world over. Good shooting.

Hey guys. I'm not saying don't use it. I'm not saying you aren't getting the velocities you claim. I'm not saying it isn't the cats meow for some of you. Yep the one barrel I had (lothar-walther) in a 26" didn't give me the velocties you are seeing. Yep one barrel can give higher velocity for the same powder etc. Usually because it is tighter and gives higher pressure. (again my opinion) For my hunting rifles a 28" is to long. Again that is my personal feelings. Like I said I could get 2900-2950 with my STA. Even if it had been 3000. It would have only given me a 30yd longer point blank range over my 20" 358Norma at 2700. To me the recoil, longer barrel, extra weight just wasn't worth it. Again my opinion. I'm not trying to talk you out of using it. Nor will you talk me into it. To each his own.

If everyone had the same likes and dislikes there would be only one or two rifles out there.

Phurley5, as one 35-nut to another, you ever wonder why the same load goes faster out of the other gun? I've heard the line about faster-more pressure, and it makes sense. North Fork mentions that you should get higher speeds with their bullets than a same-weigh conventional, but recomends lowering the charge to equal the other's speed, right? Sounds like he buys it as well.
It's true a handloader can beat published velocities, but so can the people that publish them. Why don't they? I'm sure any particular gun can take the repeated abuse of +P loads, but the curve goes up sharply on the right side. This topic's been beaten to death. Don't want to stray OT, but regarding STA performance, I'd set it right in between a similarly-loaded 338 Baer and 375 H&H Imp, since that's exactly what it is. If that sounds good, jump in.
Happy T-Day!

Bwana-be ----- I certainly have wondered why the Lilja barrel was consistently quicker on all loads and most people I talked to stated the pressure theory, and that is where I hang my hat also. I can take the brass shot from the Winchester barrel, resize, and then it is extremely hard or impossable to chamber in the Lilja barrel. I can take the Lilja shot brass, resize and chamber easily in the Winchester barrel. Because of this I keep all the brass seperated. Further evidence to this reloader that all barrels-chambers have a personality all their own and if you shoot them enough you will discover their preferences, then they will perform at their best for you. Good shooting.

Explaining the entire velocity differences on pressure differences is certainly safest way to look at things. It may not be quite that simple though--an extremely smooth, polished bore of the Lilja may very well have significantly reduced friction compared with a rough factory-quality tube. This could make slighly higher velocities at the same pressure level possible (like moly, etc, coatings on bullets can).

Jon A ----- You may have a very valid point. My grandson just said to me the other day as we were shooting, "I guess it just has a slicker barrel", he has a way of getting to the point with simple terms, and I try to overthink, according to him. It may be a combination of both to some extent. Good shooting.

Thanks for the feedback. Now that I have heard your general comments, here is what I have in mind. I do a lot of elk hunting with brand new or inexperienced elk hunters, and want a new rifle to use as a back up gun. My personnal criteria is a reasonably flat shooting heavy bullet in a reasonably large diameter on an H&H based case in a gun with a stainless steel action and barrel, with a composite or laminated stock. I have a .375 H&H Model 70, a .338 Winchester No. 1, and a .35 Whelen Browning 95 and love to hunt with all three. However, they each have their limitations. The STA seems to meet my requirements.

Dave

I have a 358 and there isn't enough money out there to make me sell it. My confidence level in this rifle is rock solid. I had one 8 years ago on a RH Remington. Beautiful gun to shoot. Moose and bears would roll over and play dead before you pulled the trigger. I'm left handed so I sold it and built one on a Browning Medallion. It shoots flat and hard. 225 Nosler Ballistic tips were my fave load with 94.5g Reloader 22. 3 shots would always go into a 3/4" group. It would shoot better but I couldn't. That is really good grouping for a big bullet. That load on a chrony was 3180. I tried 225 Barnes xlc. Same powder charge, 3250fps. 250 Nosler partitions are a good load too with 90.5 Re 22. I hit 3050fps on chrony. I am trying to find 280 Swift A frames to try them. I also tried a 180 grain Barnes and hit 3400fps! It shot so flat that 2" a 100 yards gave me 3" low at 300! But I found it too light for my kind of hunting. If you want a different calibre than factory and something to make your buddies scared to rattle your rounds off, then get a 358. My opinion says no one will ever convince me to trade my 358 in for anything else.

PS I have also had a 35 whelen, 350 rem mag, and 358 Norma. Loved them all.

Adam Ragan ----- You need to shoot the North Fork bullets in 225, 250 and particularly the 270 grainer and see how your barrel handles them. I have tried every .358 caliber bullet known to be produced except the GS (not sure if they even make it), and the North Forks perform in both my barrels in all sizes far better than all others on the market. I have shot the 280 Swift A-Frames you mention and they shoot well for me, but not as accurate as the North Forks. Your speeds match what I see from my rifles after I fireform the brass and load the second time. I also use RL-22 and when I change lots back off slightly and work back up. http://www.northforkbullets.com is where you can find them. Good shooting.

phurley5,
Out of interest, how did the Woodleighs hold up at 358STA velocity? I'll get myself a 358Norma or 358STA one day ... just need to talk my mate out of his Rem700 35Whelen first.
Cheers...
Con

Con ----- I have to admit to a mistake when I said I have shot all .358 bullets except the GS's. I should have said I have shot all produced in the states. I have not shot the Woodleighs, but all I hear about them are good things. ----- I use a tough penetration test for all my bullets that I hunt dangerous game with. I use a long box filled with old file papers that have been soaked. I also throw in a large Bison bone and a couple plastic covered notebooks to simulate tough tissue. You would be supprised how some of the supposedly tough bullets turn to mush or powdered lead and a few pieces of copper with this test. My point being, these fast rifles need really tough bullets to reach their maximum potential. Good shooting.