Hello
I am in a dilema, My son turns 12 this summer and wants to hunt deer with us this fall. I need to buy him a rifle and am having a heck of a time finding one. Where we hunt in early deer season, there is a good population of ruff grouse so I was looking for a combination gun, Savage model 24f in 3030/20ga. That way if he doesn't see a deer to shoot (at) he won't get bored or discouraged if he can shoot a few chickens. I would prefer a used one as the budget is tight and new ones are almost $800(CND). Do any of you guys know of any of these around your areas or in gunshops you frequent. It will have to be in Canada.

Thanks
Shawn

In my experience the Sav. combo gun was never very accurate and I have worked on several of them for various problems.
I have owned fine European combo guns, drillings etc. but still I find them to be neither fish nor fowl. If it is a good rifle it is a poor shot gun due to the rifle sights in the way etc.
'Just buy him a nice 260 Rem or 7/08 of your choice let him whack em and stack em.
If he needs both bbls. then you might look at something from New England Arms or T/C.
I think he will be unhappy with the 24 C and that you will be too for the amt. of time it 'might' spend at the gunsmiths.

What Harry said
"Get him a 260 or 7-08"
By the way one of the valuable lessons that hunting teaches kids is that "instant gratification" doesn't always happen in life.

Some smart guy once said,
"The Harder You Work, The Luckier You Get."

The 3030/12g Sav I shot was surprisingly accurate with 165gn Horns! But I would not recommend that Sav rifle the combos have some serious ignition problems that Sav warrenty in Canada can't seem to get fixed. I would also recommend a .250-.260 rifle & let him shoot it a lot. I would also download it a little unless he's quite stout as at the age of 12 it would be very easy to get a flinch started. Also use ear protection anytime except hunting.

I started when I was 12 with a 270. The first couple of shots were a little rough, but after that I found out that it wasnt going to hurt me, and became very comfortable with it. I wouldn't suggest going with anything larger than a 270. You don't want to scare him off by giving him a sore shoulder.

The combo guns are a poor way to teach a kid to shoot a rifle, and an even poorer way to learn a shotgun.

Buy him a plain used bolt action .243, 7/08, or such and put a good 4x scope on it. If he needs a shotgun, look for a used 20 guage single shot or even a bolt action-- they'll be cheap but serviceable.

Thanks guys
I completely agree with the advise of not getting too big too early so as to prevent flinching, make it enjoyable to shoot. Maybe a 250-3000 savage or something like that? I was kind of leaning toward a single shot as I want him to think and aim every shot, especialy that first one.
He shoots the 22 lots, doesn't like scopes. He also has a 12ga SS that I buy light loads for (I don't reload - yet). He likes the shotgun, hard on pigeons here around the farmyard!
Also advice against the Savage combo is noted.

Thanks
Shawn

I would suggest a T/C Encore single-shot rifle with a .250 savage barrel(24"). It has inter-changeable barrels that can be bought separately. They're not cheap but do have a lifetime warranty much like leupold.

I believe that New England Firearms offers what you are looking for in a single shot. I think they have interchangeble barrels also. I priced about a month ago: $225

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don't cuss farmers and ranchers with your mouth full

Most of those combo guns are really to heavy for a lot of 12 year olds!

I would opt for any one of several calibers that have been mentioned including a favorite of mine the 25-06, 7mm-08. These are rifles that can double as varmint guns too. Also don't forget the time tested 7 x 57 Mauser, which is a great game caliber with very little recoil.

I would look at a model seven in 260 or 7mm-08.They are light to carry and recoil is quite mild if you stick with lighter bullets.No matter what caliber you decide on I would suggest a bolt action as they are simpler and don't encourage shooting too fast as many beginners often do with pumps,levers or semi's.Shooting grouse to avoid boredom will only ruin the deer hunt and will not teach him the patience that being a good hunter requires.

I carried a shot gun at moose hunting for two years before I could hunt alone with a rifle. (18 year limit.) I shot bouth grouse, woodgrouse and black grouse and it really got me into hunting. Last year I shoot my first moose during my first hunt with a rifle. I got a lot out of hunting with a shotgun together with the rest. So shooting birds during a biggame hunt isn't so dumb a idea for young people. But I would say that if he can hunt with a rifle with you from the beginning thats okay. A combi gun can't be the right thing for a "fresh" hunter. I'd go for a rifle with a mild kik like other have suggested.

Johan

Start the young lad off properly. A Winchester Compact Classic 7-08. It is exactly what my 10 year old son has. He loves it. Well actually he likes my Bushmaster AR-15 the best, but it's not a deer rifle by any stretch.

If you've got an $800 budget, why not two guns? A Remington 870 will cost you around $250 in 12 or 20 ga., and a NEF HandiRifle is $150. For an extra $100 you can get a 12 ga. barrel for the NEF gun.

I like the idea of break open guns for kids, because you don't need to look closely to see if the action is open.

H. C.

Oops, my mistake. I read $800 and was trying to leave room for a 1911 (or a Glock if he must have a repeating shotgun).

BTW, it is awful commendable starting him out this early. A lot of guys would wait until near opening day to put the gun in the kid's hands.

Good hunting.

H. C.

quote:

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Originally posted by Slapshot:
Hello
I am in a dilema, My son turns 12 this summer and wants to hunt deer with us this fall. I need to buy him a rifle and am having a heck of a time finding one. Where we hunt in early deer season, there is a good population of ruff grouse so I was looking for a combination gun, Savage model 24f in 3030/20ga. That way if he doesn't see a deer to shoot (at) he won't get bored or discouraged if he can shoot a few chickens. I would prefer a used one as the budget is tight and new ones are almost $800(CND). Do any of you guys know of any of these around your areas or in gunshops you frequent. It will have to be in Canada.

Thanks
Shawn

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Just a thought here, but why not one of the many fine Swedish M-94/96/38, or Spanish M-95 military surplus rifles? The 6.5X55 and the 7x57 are two of the finest deer sized game getters on the planet, the rifles are cheap enough to be a great first time father/son sporter project, and will leave enough money in the budjet to acquire a modest reloading setup which will allow for a great deal of practice.

7x57 is the real ticket. you shouldn't have any trouble finding a used bolt gun.
I started just shooting with a ruger m77 in 7x57 when I was 10. Just re barrelled it to 7mm-08, because of better brass avalibility, and I feel like I have deserted my favorite cartridge.

where in canada are you?

Thanks for all of the input guys
I have been re-evaluating and have kind of settled on something in the 6.5x55, 7x57 or even better yet a 257 roberts. But I am having a terrible time finding one! I am in Saskatchewan and the gun laws in this country have all but killed the firearms industry. Years ago it would have been no problem to find something reasonably priced but now everyone is camped out on what they have and nothing is trading around. If anyone here can help, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks
Shawn

This is a list of Canadian gun shops and clubs etc.
http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Recreation/AMA/AMA-Links.htm
Good luck.

You may want to look on this site. something might come up that will meet your requirements, or something you didn't know you needed, until you saw it.
http://gunscanada.com/

if your gonna get him a regular bolt action I agree you can't go wrong with a 25-06. kills deer as well as anything and hardly recoils. also will shoot plenty flat enough to be interesting at any age.

if you handload a 270 can be loaded to recoil pretty light too and still pack a decent wallop. 130 grains at 2800fps and around 12 or so ft lb recoil.

Here is something that may fit your needs.
http://www.gunscanada.com/auction/lot.cfm?lotID=2135

Then all you have to do is find a single shot 410

Slap, you mentioned a couple of things that made the little dim bulbs in my head come on. First, you said your son doesn't like scopes? (Why, I can't imaginge...but anyway.) If he doesn't care for scopes, possibly a military surplus 7X57 or the 6.5 in mil surplus would be a road to take? Keep the cost down. Won't make you cry if he dropkicks it out on his first hunt. Yet, all plenty effective on deer. I'm afraid your son may find that when the excitement of that first deer kicks in it is HARD to align two things with iron sights and may blow a shot. Just a thought.

As far as singleshots go, the only good single shots I can think of quickly are the Ruger #3s. But they won't be cheap. A very simple solution is to just give the boy ONE bullet...or insist he only LOAD one at a time. You can turn any gun into a single shot. I taught my son to shoot with single shot .22 and when I sent him hunting with shotgun only gave him ONE bullet. He always brought back game and turned into a ninja assassin caliber of shooter.

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A well placed bullet is worth 1,000 ft/lbs of energy.

I agree with the idea of too much power creating flinching in younger kids. My cousin just turned 12 and is scared of anything bigger than a .223 until I let him shoot my 7mm08 with a muzzle break. They are just wonderful inventions.

I would also go for the 7 x 57 Mauser , simply a great cal. Never had a days problem with the calibre , I have shot game up into the kudu size game with 154 gr & 175 gr, 140 gr works great on smaller game in the impala class , I think it is pretty close to your deer sized game.

Regards
Rudie

I have to ditto the 6.5 swede, easy kicking and I haven't seen any that weren't very accurate and deadly to boot. Milsurps can be picked up cheap, and sporters for not much more. I also would start him shooting with irons whether or not he likse a scope, just only seems natural to me. And have to applaud you on getting him started right. Another thought if shots aren't gonna be too long (and you really don't want a youngster trying those long ones anyways IMHO) how bout a levergun in 30-30 they have taken more deer than any other out there. I know I did quite a bit of damage with a savage 340 carbine in 30-30 in my younger days. gabe

You should be able to find a "sporterised" 96 Mauser in 6.5 x 55 for less than $100 CDN. Then you can chop and whittle until it fits your son. Very versatile caliber, and he can use the iron sights on the rifle until you figure he's ready for a scope. Drill 3-4 holes and you're off for a few more seasons. If you have no luck getting one in Sask. let me know and I'll root around here and see what turns up. - Dan

Thanks again guys, All of your assistance is greatly appreciated!
Dan
That is exactly what I have been looking for here in Sask. but nobody seems to have one. If you know where to look there in Edmondchuk,I would be grateful!
Just a note, if I can't find something else for him, My Uncle has a Model 94 in 30-30 that fits him well that he can use, but I hate borrowing rifles.

Pecos
'ninja assassin caliber of shooter'?!
I like that, can I use it elsewhere?
The one bullet idea has alot of merit, kind of like a self imposed single shot, then whe he is ready, give hime 2 or 3 even. That may even work for me!

Alstro
I will keep an eye on that auction, that one looks like it would work and it is kind of unique too, I like that. (probably why I'm the only guy for 50 miles any direction that shoots a 280 Rem!)

Shawn

I agree with the 6.5x55 Sweade. They are top notch rifles for being used surplus guns. Especially as your son don't want a scope. Here in the states they bring a better price than the other surplus stuff but still can be had under $200 US. I guess getting one shipped from the U.S. is not very do able?

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Don Nelson
Sw. PA.

Slapshot
Most have been said alredy, but I like to throw in my two cents as well.
Been through the same prosess as you some years ago, I would reccomend a 6.5x55.
Shot placement is as we all know critical, and I would like to give him a little edge with a caliber that penetrates, and that the Swede does !!

I would not go for a surplus ex military arm but by a proper hunting rifle.
Thats because the surplus armes often have long barrels and are rather muzzle-heavy.

About sights, I agree learning him to shoot open sights, but in the fields, the advantages of a scope must not be overlooked.
I guess you like to give him a smoot start as possible??

A well balanced rifle in 6,5x55 with a fixed 4x Leupold, loaded with good bullets, and he has a flying start.

I have seen to many youngsters starting off hunting handicapped with laid off "hand me down" rifles.

Lots of them work, thats true, but why introduce a young man to shooting / hunting with a rifle that we, in all honest, would not take to the woods our selves??

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Arild Iversen
~ Ad spes infracta ~

The best values can be had with used guns in nearly new condition for at prices much lower than the cost of new ones, as there seems to be a glut of used guns on the market now with prices depressed for nearly everything except certain collector items. Also, some older guns are of much higher quality than most of the current mass-produced guns. For instance, many private label brands used commercial FN Mauser actions on their bolt rifles which can be bought nowadays for $200-$400US, often with a scope. I'd look for something like that in a rifle, probably in 7x57 or 270 caliber for a youth. In a shotgun, best value by far is the Remington 870, around $150-$225US in like-new, used condition.

This is a link for Shooters Choice in Ontario. Used guns http://www.shooterschoice.com/used%20guns/usedcenterfire.htm

The Savage 99E in .243 for $450. asking price would be a nice rifle for the lad.

other links , www.milarm.com http://www.gagnonsports.com/html/guns.html

I agree with Applefarmer in the .243 caliber.
I have a 700 BDL that I bought because it is enough for Deer in all centerfire states and also small enough for me to use on varmits.
A good cross-over caliber.
Good Luck in finding your son a rifle.

Greg

a good 7x57 should work very well, fine cartridge

Milarm has ; 02-358 Lee Enfield No5 MkI 303 Brit $150 Very/Gd
just put some lock tite on the front sight to keep it sighted in. I really enjoy mine and can be used for moose or bear as well.

Milarm also has Norinco JW-103 7.62X39 $295 New. this is a 200 yard deer rifle and cheap to practice with. very little recoil.

Just checked out LeBaron Sports, they have the Remington model 7 youth 7mm-08 or .243, on for $531.94 , www.lebaron.ca

The Winchester Classic Compact 7mm-08 is $849.63 at LeBaron .

Thanks again guys for all of the help. I think that I have it nailed down now. Shooters Choice has spoterized Mauser 98 in 257 Roberts that I really like. Price is $395 CND. Looks nice but I am having trouble buying something that I can't hold in my hand. Plus, I can only find a few factory loadings for it, all with a 117 grain bullet. Does one have to reload to get versatility from this round?
Shucks, that means I'll have to get some relaoding gear too!
Have to justify it to the wife somehow!

Shawn