The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 338-06 problems!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Why are you using a powder charge less than the listed minimum? I've seen this cause problems. You might be getting detonation with too light a charge, which causes some really crazy pressure spikes. Have you tried the min. listed load? I had blown primers from trying to us a starting 30-06 load in a 300WM. Where full house 300WM worked fine. Roi P.S. If you want to PM me with a postal address I can send you a couple of Norma 338-06 cases to try. DRSS member Constant change is here to stay. | |||
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You're right Winchester 69...the shoulder points are the same in those two cases...BUT... the neck/shoulder junctions are different...that is the important point for consideration and why those cases work as I indicated. 270 Win - 2.1557" 30-36 - 2.1086" 35 Whelen - 2.032" commercial 338-06 1.981" The forming process starts pushing back the neck/shoulder junction earlier on the 270, 280 and 35 Whelen cases and you will end up with a nice rounded shoulder beginning that fireforming will fill out. The Whelen case is ideal to use as a reference case if the headspace isn't too far out of whack. The 280 case if the headspace is WAY out of whack...being that the shoulder point, neck/shoulder junction and length are WAY forward of the corresponding points on the 338-06 case. As I said, I tried them all during the process of figuring out why I was getting so few reloads with this particular rifle. I used Rem 35 Whelen cases the last time I reformed cases for this rifle. They also happened to have a slightly larger case capacity and I had to increase the powder amount a bit to bring the velocity back up to the original ~2750fs with the Hornady 225 bullet. The rifle has a 26" bbl which adds a bit of velocity. This case in my rifle really bites the heels of a 338 WM as far a most commercial loadings go. Actually...I had the chambered barrel installed in late 1964 now that I think about it, so it's been quietly and effectively doing it's job for just about 45 years. Hornady 200g for deer mostly, 225g Hornady and/or Nosler Parts for Elk(whichever is on sale when I need a resupply). It WON'T shoot Nosler 210 Parts at all, too short and stubby I think...wish it did tho'. There is/was also a hot 270/280 x 338 being pushed by at least one gunsmith with a very short neck and fully blown out shoulder at the timed I did mine. The velocity was claimed to be in the neighborhood of 2900-2950fs with a 225gr bullet. Maybe, maybe not...but I would bet it would do 2825 - 2850fs easy enough. Luck on you quest. | |||
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That's funny, my 338-06 will shoot 185gr, 200gr, loves the 210gr NP & just about any 250gr bullet. The best it will do w/ 225gr anything is about 2"-2 1/2" for 3. Everything else I can tinker w/ & get right to 1moa or a bit better on good days. Just goes to show you that all rifles are diff. BTW, I also like necking down the Whelen brass. I only shoot 06 in my M1 but still like having non 06 headstamps. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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As Foobar suggested, you don't need to waste bullets to get a fireformed case. Any fast pistol powder, like bullseye, will do. And cornmeal is cheap enough. I have always jammed a tuft of toilet paper in the neck atop the cornmeal just for good measure. I have the AI version of the 338-06. This procedure straightens the case walls and relocates the shoulder. However, the body to shoulder and neck to shoulder junctures are not sharp angles but more like the Weatherby radius. It is purely cosmetic and gets ironed out with the first regular power load. The point is, it forms the case to your chamber, whether it is exactly to SAAMI specs or not. 1. I would buy a box of 338-06 factory loads...couldn't hurt. 2. I would, as suggested already, increase my powder to the starting load level, not below. 3. Pics sure would be nice. | |||
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For my AI, I hate driving somewhere just to blow cornmeal in the air (if I could shoot at home it might be different) so I usually hunt or do basic scope adjustments/checks with my fireforming loads until I have 50 rounds of formed brass. I leave 50 un-formed until I need more. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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As mentioned, try maybe shooting some factory ammo - Weatherby has some to compare to your reloads. I was going to use 30-06 brass for my Sako m75 Greywolf 338-06 Ackley Improved with new 24" PacNor SuperMatch grade barrel- but decided to use 338-06 headstamped brass-Weatherby made by Norma. My gunsmith ordered me Redding dies. My rifle new shot like a dream just fireforming the brass alone / breaking in of new barrel. I used 58.5gr of H414 with Federal 210 primers for my fireforming rounds-225gr Accubonds and TTSx's. I have yet to find the time to do my reloads with fireformed brass. | |||
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As is usually the case, each rifle - just as each person - has individual tastes in components. AND...as is usually the case...each problem has many different approaches...each solution has many different ways of getting solved and each of US has different existances, needs and expectaions. The major problem with using factory ammo in an excessive headspace chamber is you could stretch the brass excessively and ruin it on the first firing unless you pull the bullets and then reseat far enought out into the lands to hold the bullet base tight against the firing pin strike... AND...by doing this with a full load case you are also jacking up the pressure way beyond SAAMI specs...which again stresses the brass beyond its spec limits. To solve the problem simply and quickly do the things I stated. I've been wildcatting and reloading a LONG time...this procedure is time tested and proven to NOT stress any of the components. This is the same procedure advocated by P.O. Ackley WAY back when he was doing his "improved" work. If you don't want a "cerealshower", just seat a medium to heavy bullet out into the lands...use a cheap jacketed bullet, lead bullets work just as well...I've use both in many applications... and a beginning load of ANY reloading powder listed in ANY reloading manual. The pressure will be low enough, 40-44KCUP, not to cause pressure spike problems and high enough to iron out the case in the chamber. 50-54 gr of 4895 and a 200 gr bullet works just fine in the 338-06. Check out the manuals first. Start on the low side and work up a bit anc check each case to see how well it is forming. You might need to increase the powder charge a grain or two to get a full form at the shoulder and neck junctions. Consider the fireforming step as the first step in your load/accuracy testing... My rifle has such a long throat I can't seat ANY 338 bullet made today in the case(maybe the Hawk 275 - 300g would, but I haven tried those yet) and it touch the lands. The throat is even longer than the famed Weatherby "freebore". That jump is partly the reason the Nosler 210 Parts "stubbies" won't shoot my required accuracy...along with the barrel vibration nodes being in the wrong place when the bullet exits the barrel...and the need for a slighly heavier powder amount. I could "tune" the barrel to shoot the 210's by shortening it a bit at a time intil I hit a null mode, but why bother??? It shoots the 225 Parts just fine...not at well as the 225 Hornadys but still hovers around 50 cent groups. Plenty good enough for minute of Elk or for popping ground squirrels out to 300-350 yds. I live way out in the piney woods and have a 150 yd range right next to my reloading shed. There are lots of open fields full of squirrels close around me...but they are also full of livestock during the squirrel season. And I setup a 1000 plus yd "range" next to one close fence I use on occasion...but the noise of my long range and large calibers make the ranchers a bit nervous.   I don't use it much during the cattle spring and summer months.The '06 case necked from 6mm to 40 cal is an excellent, non-magnum platform to use for a rifle battery. There is a caliber size for every application as far as hunting goes on the N.A. continent, as long as you stay within the hunters and bullets performance range. Luck on your projects. | |||
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FOOBAR, w/ that long throat, I would bet the 210grTSX would shoot well. The monometals seem to liek a bit more jump. My long throated 338x74K shoots the 210grTSX into rediculously small groups for a Ruger #1. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Unfortunately the magazine well of most repeaters won't allow bullets to be loaded that far out. I'm lucky in that the Sauer 200/202 magazines are single-stack and extra long. I get to long-load rounds that would never fit a Remchester/Mauser/Riuger without a bunch of mods or a magnum action. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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If i could count up the cases i've "fireformed" using B-eye and corn meal, it would number in the MANY thousands! It's really the "right" way to do it, and also the cheapest way to do it. Plus, it doesn't over work the neck or leave it lop sided, like using a tapered expander does! DM | |||
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It might, Fred. That's one I haven't tried. By now the throat is even longer now, but the 200-225 Hornadys and 225 Parts and IMR4320 powder loads just keep doing the job so I basically quit testing bullets. I go up to Bend Oregon to Nosler every now and then to re-up my supply of bullets and always pick up a hundred or so 225 g 338 Parts if they are available...one of these day I might try the 225 AB or the 200 g E-tip tho'. I'm running out of time so basically I'm just working through what I have on the shelf. Besides, one of these days I will turn out a few solid brass 338 bullets on the lathe to see how they work on a hunk of lodgepole pine. DM...basically I use whatever fast burning powder I have lots of or what I want to get rid of when I'm fireforming... but it's easier to post P.O.'s recipe and doesn't confuse the issue or add extraneous information...it is way to easy for people to get information overload on the net...and you didn't mention all the collapsed necks, crooked mouths, caved in shoulders from too much lub and stuck cases from not enough lub, crushed cases from missing the hole while having a "senior moment"...or all the various forming dies or hafazzed futzing around with making quasi-forming dies...hahahahahahah...Oh such fun... Trigger...I max out a 3.63" in the Rem as far as mag feeding goes. My 225 Hornady(1.315" long) load is ~3.55" COAL, roughly 0.250" seating depth. The 280 cases gave me a slightly longer COAL and slightly deeper seat. If I wanted to really get to the lands(maybe) I would use the Barnes 250gr TSXFB at 1.620" long, seated about a quarter inch deep or turn out some brass slugs somewhere around 1.75" long and get a REALLY long COAL...3.85" - 4" or so...but then I would have to figure out all the twist, velocity, etc, etc,...information and go to testing again...I already have a test todo list a mile long I will never get to the bottom of...   It's still all fun tho'. Luck on your projects. | |||
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Sloppy oversized chamber allowing too much case head expansion. Chamber was cut without dial indicating off the bore. What does the case head mike after firing?  Doug Humbarger NRA Life member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73. Yankee Station Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo. | |||
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I don't think that bright ring is an incipient head separation. Section a fired case to make sure that's what is happening. You cannot use primer appearance alone to tell you if pressures are too high. Are the primer pockets getting loose from too much pressure? How easily do new primers go into the pockets? "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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El Deguello, Sorry ... I apparently did not make myself clear ... one case has separated at the bright line, and several others have started to crack there. Very difficult not to call that head separation. Going to try the Bullseye fire forming and opening up to .366 then sizing down. Will shoot some cases done that way early in the week. Thanks Folk! Mike -------------- DRSS, Womper's Club, NRA Life Member/Charter Member NRA Golden Eagles ... Knifemaker, http://www.mstarling.com | |||
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Many of the things folks have suggested could be the cause...and solutions...time will tell. One relatively quick way to check the headspace... WITHOUT firing a round...is to insert a sized case into the chamber, cut some small shims(shim material is available as close as your soda can) and use a bit of grease to stick them to the bolt face, then start closing the bolt on the shims...add shims until the bolt stops closing. Measure the thickness of all the shims...anything over about 0.008" is excessive headspace. SAAMI spec's run about 0.008" between the different headspace guages...depending... Incipient headspace separation or cracks can start around 0.012" excess headspace...plus or minus a bit...depending on the thickness of the brass at the junction and the brand of brass. I've never experienced head separation with oversized chambers unless it was also in connection with excess headspace. The fireforming won't work all that well unless the case is held tight against the bolthead either by a claw extractor or by a bullet jammed into the lands. DON'T USE THE CORNMEAL/BULLSEYE WITH A BULLET JAMMED INTO THE LANDS. Use the cornmeal/bullseye with a claw type extractor and/or by using a false shoulder...OR...use a light load and bullet jammed into the lands with a push type bolt. Headspace is relative and can be adjusted out by adjusting your sizing die. Guages come in several flavors, GO, NO-G0 and FIELD and for some military there was also a "WAR"??? that was looser than the FIELD guage. As I said...my 338-06 has slightly over 0.020" "excess" headspace, but this being a wildcat when it was built, that didn't really matter after I got it figured out. If this solution proves the case then a Comp shell holder from Redding...last one I bought was $17.50 plus shipping...will get you back shooting. If, as you stated, the headspace guage that was used gave an accurate indication...and you want to shoot factory ammo...then the only other thing to do is adjust the length of the gauge to match minimum SAAMI specs(basically nothing more than turning a few thou of the face of the guage), get another gauge this IS SAAMI spec'ed then having the chamber re-cut using the new/adjusted guage. Luck on your project. | |||
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Foobar, Rifle in question is built on a commercial FN action. Was going to try two methods. I have taken some brass, necked it up to .366 then necked it down to .338 so that the bolt will just close on the false shoulder. Will shoot that with a starting load using 225 gr Hornady jacketed bullets. Setting up for this did demonstrate that the false shoulder was being placed at the correct point when the sizing die was placed at 0.031" above the shell holder. Certainly indicates that the brass was originally being sized too short thus causing the problem I've seen. Second method I'll try is the COW over Bullseye method. Will only put just a little toilet paper in the case mouth so the contents doesn't spill ... no bullet! What does concern me is that I've seen recommendations from 7 to 15 grains of Bullseye for the second approach. Is a heck of a range! Again Guys, thank you for your comments! Mike -------------- DRSS, Womper's Club, NRA Life Member/Charter Member NRA Golden Eagles ... Knifemaker, http://www.mstarling.com | |||
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This can be fixed by having a good gunsmith set the barrel back a thread or two and rechamber. Unless of course the original had wobble at the handle end of the reamer then about all you can do is chamber for a larger .30 cal that will fit that action size or I'd, personally, just at that point send it to Hart Barrels and have them rebarrel. Regards & Good Luck, The display of PURE POWER is nothing short of AWESOME ! 1 JOHN 3:18 | |||
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Ouch...0.031" IS a bit long... 1. The amount of bullseye can have a large range depending on the case size...basically you start on the low side 7-8 gr and see if the case if filling out, then add a grain or so until the case fills out well and stop there...15 gr would be near my stopping point in '06 size cases. I cut a sheet of blue shop towel into 1" squares, wad it up and stuff it in the case and I've used 1" synthetic cleaning patches, toilet paper, dacron fuzz, newspaper, etc, almost anything and everything that will burn and wad up easy. The last cases I formed were 308 size...I used a small dipper full of Hi-Skor 700, can't remember the dipper number but the powder weighed 19 gr, and three sizes larger dipper full of cornmeal. That combination filled the case to the neck and the wad topped it off. The case came out fully formed but with just a bit of rounding still left at the shoulder. 2. If this were my gun...and the chamber wasn't too oblonged... a. If it had sights on the barrel and it shot accurate enough I would just leave it alone, buy a Comp shell holder that set the shoulder back a couple thou, forget about commercial ammo and be happy. You will be moving the shoulder forward(in reality, because the shell case grips the front of the chamber first and harder from the gas pressure, you actually move the last 1/3 roughly of the case backwards) when you fireform the new brass so you won't be causing a problem with case stretch. The sizing button dragging through the case will stretch it enough as it is. I would also buy a set of full length bushing type sizing dies. There are so many good things about those dies I can't list them all. With that amount of difference I would also oil the case so it could slip a little and not lockup in the chamber. Not a lot of oil, just dip your finger in a good gun oil and wipe it on evenly. Use Imperial sizing wax also prior to oiling. Incipient head separation is cause by the forward part of the case locking against the chamber walls while the rear portion moves backward by pressure. The head separates at the junction because the thin brass cross section at that point exceed the elastic limits of the brass. I ran some tests way back and found a 308 size case could stand about 0.060" worth of stretch at that point before it started cracking. That's equal to about 10 firing cycles using a button type expander sizing die...measuring and trimming each firing. Using a bushing type die that didn't pull or stretch the case in addition to the firing stretching...I could get another 8-10 firings per case. Case stretch is greatest during the first 2-4 firings then it slows down. In another test I loaded and fired ONE 223 case using a bushing die that fit the chamber almost perfectly(or vice versa) 47 times with the most accurate 55 grain bullet load that rifle produced before the case gave up...another test, same load, different brand of brass went 58 and could have gone a few more but I ran out of that brand of bullets. b. If it DIDN'T have sights on the barrel I would make SURE of the measurements, pull the barrel, turn about 0.025" off the barrel face and the shoulder, screw it back on, make up another case to check the measurements again, re-adjust the sizer, test for accuracy and go be happy. Basically what I'm saying is just shorten the chamber back closer to SAAMI specs. ANY gunsmith can do this easy enough and you DON'T have to rechamber because the chamber is already TOO long. c. If the chamber is wobbled out in addition to being too long and I couldn't live another minute without this shooter or caliber I would just suck it up and install a new chambered barrel. For all intents and purposes just going the shell holder route will solve your problem cheaply, quickly and efficiently and if the shooter gives you the accuracy level you require...why go nutz over it. Besides most of the accuracy potential is wrapped up in the last 6" or so of the barrel and the crown. I've taken 2 "shot out" barrels, bobbed 1/2 - 1" off the muzzle and recrowned, cut them to 16 1/2" and turned one into a 6mmBR and the other into a 222 RemMag stub barrel on an NEF single shot SB2 frame. Both barrels now shoot in the 2's and 3's...great little potgut shooters off my ATV. Luck with your quest. | |||
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Foobar is right on. From all that's been said, this sounds more like a seater/sizer die prob than a chamber prob. I'd send the sizer, seater and 5 fired cases to the mfgr and tell them what you are experiencing. If it's RCBS, they will fix it or make you a custom die, can't speak for the others. Please let us know what the outcome is, I for one am curious. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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FooBar's post doesn't take into consideration that the die may be the problem, though if the chamber is long it is spot on. The chamber has been checked more than once for head space and has passed muster each time. Same gauge? Same gunsmith? If the die is the problem and its setting the shoulder back .031" too far, the comp shellholder or a replacement, correct die will solve the problem and factory ammo won't be a problem. The question remains: Is the shoulder set too far back by the die or is the chamber too long? No one knows, or at least MStarling has not provided the info to know. You need to measure to the false shoulder/neck junction and compare to the SAAMI specs to determine if the chamber is too long or the die setting the shoulder too far back. That false shoulder could be right on spec! Alternative would be to measure (to make sure it was to SAAMI specs) and then chamber a new piece of brass (chamber just to make sure it fits) and then size it in the die and measure to the shoulder again. If it comes out short, you will know its the die. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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Hi Guys, I tried fireforming some x1 30-06 brass that had been sized up to 338 with the Redding dies. I used 10 grains of Bullseye and COW. I could not see any difference in the cases before and after. I then tried taking some x1 brass up to .366 and then sizing it back to .338 with the Redding dies. I started long and progressively shortened the cases until they would just allow the bolt of the rifle to close. Space between the bottom of the die and the shell holder was 0.031". Seems to work every time. Fired 6 rounds with 45 grains of BLC-2 and the cases appear to be fine. Patterned rather than grouped. Tried a different 6 cases with 52 grains of AA4350. Brass looks fine and the last 3 rounds went into 3/4". Primers look fine at this point. Nice rounded edges. Better. Using 6 rnds of this brass after neck sizing I'll up the AA4350 charge to 54 gr and shoot it over a chrono. Velocities will be interesting. Hope to do that on Friday. Thus far I'd have to suspect the chamber is fine, and the die was not cut deep enough. Mike -------------- DRSS, Womper's Club, NRA Life Member/Charter Member NRA Golden Eagles ... Knifemaker, http://www.mstarling.com | |||
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Glad it's beginng to sort itself out! "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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You're making me crazy here, Mike...no really definitive measurements. Take a piece of hard material, aluminum, steel, plastic, etc about 1" square/diameter/thick and drill a .375" hole in it...size a case with a standard shell holder set to touch and remove all the slop in the ram. Measure the thickness of the "guage"...drop it over the case and measure the overall length of the case and guage...THEN do the same with a fired case. PLEASE POST THAT INFORMATION. I will post some pictures of how I've done this proceedure hundreds of times over the years and MY 338-06. THE DIFFERENCE between the two measurements is the DIFFERENCE between the chamber and the sizer die. The actual measurement isn't important only the DIFFERENCE between the two. It could be a problem with the sizer die or with the chamber or a combination of the two, slop in the press/ram or a combination of all those factors. Slop and flex in the ram/press can lead to inconsistencies in shoulder set back and bullet seating. This is a well know problem to many benchresters, but not all that understood to the average reloader. If the original chamber was cut with a SAAMMI MINIMUM reamer and the original guage was a SAAMI MINIMUM guage then it probably is a short sizer die...I HAVE come across a few in my time, it DOES happen even with the best of companies. Part of it could also be slop in the ram or flex/spring in the press if you DON'T remove all the slop by screwing the dies down past the break over point. Having the die contact the top of the ram hard also serves to straighten out the case and help remove run out. I've ran lots of test in that area also, over the years, but that goes way beyond the average shooters interest Anyway...you are working out the problem to your satisfaction and requirements and that is what matters. Luck on your quest. | |||
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It may have been mentioned but under-loaded cartridges can exhibit high pressure signs and even detonate and blow up your gun. Have you tried a starting load? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the 270 won't do it the .338 will, if the 338 won't I can't afford the hunt! | |||
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Low pressure loads such as are the rule with cast bullets will allow the cases to be "blown forward" in the chamber by the force of the primer explosion alone. Since the pressure is low, the cases will have shortened headspace problems such as the one you are experiencing. The pressures are too low to permit the case to be re-formed one firing. This is one of the reasons it is recommended that once you use a batch of cases for cast bullet shooting, that you only use that batch for cast bullets from then on. The sizing die has no effect on the headspacing, since the case head-to-shoulder length is already too short due to the low pressure load. "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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I'm lost on your comment on the die... I'd say you were pushing the shoulder back too far, causeing too much headspace. That means you should have had the die adjusted "out" further to begin with, so actially, the die is just fine. DM | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by El Deguello: Low pressure loads such as are the rule with cast bullets will allow the cases to be "blown forward" in the chamber by the force of the primer explosion alone. Since the pressure is low, the cases will have shortened headspace problems such as the one you are experiencing. The pressures are too low to permit the case to be re-formed one firing. This is one of the reasons it is recommended that once you use a batch of cases for cast bullet shooting, that you only use that batch for cast bullets from then on. The sizing die has no effect on the headspacing, since the case head-to-shoulder length is already too short due to the low pressure load.[/QUOTE Except that this is a Mauser with a claw extractor. Unless it is sloppy too, it should hold the base close to the boltface. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Now I'm lost. If the die were "just fine", you could screw it to touch the shellholder and full-length size without a headspace problem. If you have to screw a die out to prevent moving the shoulder to the degree that full case separations occur, the die is cut incorrectly as decribed. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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That just isn't true. EVERY size die should be adjusted off the shell holder for the chamber the cases are going into. DM | |||
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I guess we went to different schools. I only back the die off when neck sizing. On my big bores and semi-autos, I prefer to full length size and frankly, none of my 30 something die sets oversize when they touch the shellholder. And I load the same load for multiple rifles in the same caliber (223/30-06/300 Win/300 Wby among others) with the same technique and all shoot well under minute of critter to 300 yards. I suppose if I wanted to pretend they were bench guns I could be more anal about hand-fitting sized brass to the last ten thousandth of an inch for each chamber. But why? "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Seems like this thread is getting a bit askew...some of the information being presented is of value, but some is getting into the apples and orange thing. Until the actual measured DIFFERENCE between the full length, screwed down tight against the shell holder and ANY breakover at the top of the ram stroke removed to eliminate slop and flex, and a fired case dimension is posted there is really no way to actually start the process of identifying WHICH is the problem or if it is a combination of BOTH the chamber and the dies as a result of tolerances stacking up the wrong way...the rest is just conjecture or things to do to FIND the reason. I can tell you from personal experience I've had long AND short dies, and long AND short chambers and a MIX of both all having different solutions...there is no "generalizing" in the solution for this problem. The solutions were varied depending on what the shooter was intended to do...AND they included but not limited to new dies, recutting the chambers, comp shell holders, grinding off the bottoms of the offending dies, inserting washers between the shell holder and sizer AND inserting washers between the sizer die and press, resizing longer brass and trimming to size, forming shoulders, jamming bullets into the lands, polishing the inside of the sizer a few extra thou' to fit the chamber and the same with the chamber to fit the die...and a few other gyrations I can't remember at this point. A claw type of extractor DOESN'T ALWAYS hold the case back tight enough against the boltface either...as I already mentioned and the reasons why. I had a he**ofatime trying to get a RUGER 7x57 rechambered to AI with a long chamber to fireform by just holding the case by the claw...the firing pin strike would push the case forward and leave a headspace of about 0.015". The only way I could get brass to fireform correctly in this chamber was to jam a bullet into the lands...even then I didn't get a fully formed and correctly headspaced round until the second firing...with bullet jammed into the lands. This problem becomes intractable until Mike posts that measurment difference...in all reality. Luck on your quest. | |||
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Foobar, The press being used is a Corbin bullet swaging press that is very sturdy, very straight, and very concentric. Brass made by expanding the neck to 0.366 and then sizing in the .338-06 die with 0.031" free clearance between the die and the shell holder has gone through its seconding firing with minimum recommended loads of AA4350 and 225 gr Hornady bullets. Primers look MUCH better and the brass is not showing any distortion toward the base. Will shoot it once more and then section a piece to see how the insides look. Would like to use a mill to do that, but have to figure out how to hold the brass while cutting it. Mike -------------- DRSS, Womper's Club, NRA Life Member/Charter Member NRA Golden Eagles ... Knifemaker, http://www.mstarling.com | |||
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It has nothing to do with school, the fact is, chambers run from min. to max, so do dies... Mix all of that up, and you MUST adjust the sizer die to the chamber it will be used in. In fact, RCBS use to (and may still) have that info in the instructions that come with their dies. Yes, 99% of the time you can get away with not doing so, but it still isn't the "proper way" to set up a die, and the origional post proves this. As for backing off the Fl. die to neck size, your still sizeing the body "some". The only way you can truely neck size, is with a neck sizer die. I use to be an ammo mfg, and i still have over 50 sets of dies for reloading, i learned all of this many years ago... DM | |||
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Just drill a hole the size of the brass in a block of wood, shove in the caseing, and then saw through the whole thing. The wood will hold the caseing perfectly... You can do the same thing to saw bullets in half... DM | |||
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Corbin bullet swaging presses are probably stonger and closer in tolerances than most of the other available "standard" presses. I would accept that 0.031" differential in this case. I would also...now...be looking at the sizing die as the culprit and would send the die back to the maker. 0.031" differential is too much to just use a comp shell holder to make up the gap and you really need to run the ram up against the base of the die to square up the case. Backing off a FL die to partial size just adds more slop in the system, even though many people do it and it works for them for their accuracy requirements. As far as sectioning a case or bullet...DM's will work very well...I've used a slightly different but similar method before...I've also use drill rasps and stones, Dremel bits and cut-off wheels to cut a slot in a piece of wood, plastic, epoxied the case/bullet into the slot then filed or ground off the section I wanted to look at. Last time I sectioned a case I just crushed the front of the case in a vise to hold it and used a Dremel cut-off wheel to do the bob job. Lots of ways to skin this cat. DM's way would be much faster and simpler than some I've done if you want a cleaner job or to save it the case. Luck on your quest. | |||
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