I picked up several boxes of .308" Nosler 180 grain partitions. I didn't pay close attention when I bought them, and I ended up with a few boxes of spitzers (16331), and a couple of P. PT (25396).

What are the relative merits of each? When would I use the spitzer vs. the P. PT? Can I start with the same load data?

Intended use is for elk and pig in two .308 win. One is a 22" tube, the other is a 16".

Thanks,
James

The partition is always a worthy bullet for anything you hunt.....spitzers however are not a bullet name as they are available in balistc tip and partition....

The P. PT. I assume is a protected point and is only available in a partition bullet.....IIRC

As long as they are all 180 grain bullets you can load them all the same as long as you're not pushing pressures to the point of expanding primer pockets!!!

Tell us more about those spitzers.....what else does the box say about them?

BTW....one cannot assume they all will print to the same point of aim.

Both the spitzers and protected points are partitions.

Box for the spitzers reads as follows:

Nosler
Partition
30 / 180
cal grain
(.308") Spitzer
50 Ct 16331

Protect Point box reads as follows:

Nosler
Partition
30 / 180
cal grain
(.308") P.PT.
50 Ct 25396

Hmm, here's the big difference.

Spitzer has a BC of .474
Protected Pt has a BC of .361

So should I use the P.PT. in the 16" barrel out to 150, and the spitzer in the 22" out to 300?

Thanks,
James

quote:

Originally posted by Yiminy:
Hmm, here's the big difference.

Spitzer has a BC of .474
Protected Pt has a BC of .361

So should I use the P.PT. in the 16" barrel out to 150, and the spitzer in the 22" out to 300?

Thanks,
James

Frankly they are all very worthy bullets and the difference in BC isn't a big deal IMO.....

There is going to be some difference between the 16" and the 22" barrel as you noted.....but this should not be the determining factor of which bullet to use in which barrel.....shoot the bullet that shoots the best in each gun.

The .308 Winchester is a truly elk worthy cartridge but the loss of barrel (6") may be significant.....it might be an idea after you decide which bullet shoots best in that barrel that you chronograph it to get a handle on the velocity and also shoot it at 200 and 300 yards to see the trajectory first hand. I'm guessing you'll be about 2,400'/sec in the 16" barrel.

You'll still have more pizazz than a .30-30 and I'd guess that 200 yard shots will be adequate for the short barreled gun using partitions of any flavor.

Have a great elk hunt!!

The .30 Partiton P.Pt 180 gr. are probably my preferred bullets and I use them often in my Tikka 695 cal. 300WM; they give very good accuracy and are really effective on game. Their small flat tip doesn't warp in rifle magazines under recoil, like ordinary spitzers. The ballistic difference compared to 180 gr. spitzer Partitions is, IMO, negligible; for a supposed V/0 of 880 m/s - 2890 fps, at 240 meters the P.Pt will hit about 1.5 cm. - 0.5 inch lower than the spitzer, according to my ballistic software.

P.S. The same applies for a 2420 fps. V/0 velocity

I agree with Mr. Wildboar the 180 ppt is one of my preferred bullets.

To quote a good friend of mine." The bullet that flies the best is often not the one that kills the best"

I have had good luck with protected points such as the Speer magtip, Woodleighs and Norma Vulcans as well

I think the short barrel would be fine 200 and under. This is faster than a 300 savage w/180 grain bullet and they have taken many elk over the years.

quote:

Originally posted by ron williams:
...I have had good luck with protected points such as the Speer magtip, Woodleighs and Norma Vulcans as well

Norma Vulkans are my other preferred bullet ; I really like flat point bullets.

The Protected Point was designed for the 300 WinMag, which has a relatively short neck. Many rifles chambered for the 300 won't allow the regular 180gr Partition to be seated deep enough without the ogive starting into the case mouth. The Protected Point is short enough to allow proper seating with sufficient bullet purchase behind the ogive.

SST is on the button. I believe the cannelure (SP?) is positioned differently to work with the Winnie.

SST,
Cool, that makes sense.

Now here's another question... I had a hard time finding load data for these, so I went and picked up Nosler's manual (just got back from the shop). The manual doesn't have any data on OAL! Of course, they include SAAMI OAL, but that doesn't help with the flat point of the PPT.

Does anyone have OAL measurements for 180 partitions in 308 win?

Thanks,
James


ETA: nevermind... Nosler recommends seating the bullet based on distance to lands in a particular rifle.

I have been oblivious to the difference in the 308 180gr NPTs until this post. I just checked the coffee can and all the bags are marked as PPTs. It looks like I have a couple thousand or so to eventually load up for my 300Win. Need to buy some more RL-22. Cheers.

I have tested both in my 30 magnum and find that they shoot to the same point of aim for practical purposes within hunting distances (-275dys) with the same charge of powder. I would not hesitate to use either of them.

quote:

Intended use is for elk and pig in two .308 win

I just stuffed some Nosler 180 accubonds in some .308 Winchester cases and had to do a lot of compression due to the very long and pointed tipped bullets. I used IMR-4064 powder BTW

I would seriously consider using the less ballistically efficient and less pointed Protected points as they will require less compression of the powder and will actually allow a bit more powder in the case. Almost all the really good loads for 180 grain bullets in the .308 are with compressed loads and the bullet that best fits the case is a round nose....but they don't have much for BC.....I'd consider the P PTs and save the spitzers for a .30-06 or .300 magnum.

These accubonds really have the powder compressed.....that's not at all bad but it's limiting on the combustion chamber!

vapodog,
Funny, I came to the same conclusion!
PPTs in my 308, and the spitzers will go to my brother's 30-06.

Can you share your load data for your .308?

I have my OAL with the PPT at 2.750.

Speer says 39-43 gr 4064. Nosler says 40-44.

Thanks,
James

My .308 sports a 20" barrel.....my load (don't tell anyone) is actually 46 grains IMR-4064 and I just went to the range and it clocked 2,740'/sec!!! I'm guessing about 60,000 PSI and in my rifle (Remington 700) there were absolutely no pressure signs at all.....the primers were still heavily radiused in the corners. Sorry....I didn't do a "CHE" but at least in these R-P nickel cases and my Rem 700 it's a winner.....the 180 accubonds shot extremely well.

I'm loading more now and sighting in at 200 yards and it's my backup gun for this fall's elk hunt.

Needless to say I was impressed.....

Wow. That's pretty quick. I've often wondered how conservative the loading manuals actually are.

I've tried loads up to the max several times, and never run into pressure signs. Looks like I need to go buy a couple more pounds of 4064.

Too bad that no one seems to recommend Varget for 180s, since I have 4 or 5 pounds.

quote:

Originally posted by Yiminy:
Wow. That's pretty quick. I've often wondered how conservative the loading manuals actually are.

I've tried loads up to the max several times, and never run into pressure signs. Looks like I need to go buy a couple more pounds of 4064.

Too bad that no one seems to recommend Varget for 180s, since I have 4 or 5 pounds.

Some more data.....I just reloaded the cases that I fired with 46 grans IMR-4064 and after FL resizing the cases had stretched .007 but the primer pockets were as good as new......a very tight fit on the new primers!

RE VARGET:

start at about 42 grains and work up.....if you get to 46 grains (and I'm not sure you will) you should be roughly at 2,700'/sec and about 58,000 PSI.....this isn't a bad load at all but again it's over the "book" limit. I use varget for lighter bullets and it's a fine powder for the .308!

Again it's a compressed load and should be compressed at about 43 grains so be prepared to compress some powder.

It seems all the good 180 grain loads for the .308 are compressed and some quite a bit.

DonG who used to be (maybe still is) a moderator around here reported failures to expand on plains game with the 180gr protected point in his 308. Unlike most such stories he did eventualy recover his game and saw the tiny wound channels.

Could have been a bad lot.

I use both in my .338, 300 H&H and 30-06 and they go to the same POI in my guns...I think I like the PP's a little better all things considered, but its not a big deal with me one way or the other.

I have seen small exit wounds with the Noslers on ocassion and that is caused by using too heavy bullets for the game shot IMO...however in many cases its when the bullet expands back to the partition and the lead core exits without the rear section..At any rate they always killed in a hurry for me..I have been using them for over 40 years and they just get better, never worse...

Ross Seyfried tells me anyone who tells him Noslers fail is full of baloony or some such substance..I tend to agree.

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
DonG who used to be (maybe still is) a moderator around here reported failures to expand on plains game with the 180gr protected point in his 308. Unlike most such stories he did eventualy recover his game and saw the tiny wound channels.

Could have been a bad lot.

I'm thinking maybe not a bad lot unless the ones i used on the biggest Mule Deer I ever killed came from the same lot and we're talking way back in 1978. The bullets zipped right thought the deer doing almost no damage.
Bullet #1 made a groove about the size of my little finger through the top of the heart muscle without opening up the organ. Bullet number two punched through both lungs. The size of the hole was barely one half inch wide, all the way through. Shot number three busted off part of one antlet, number four was a total miss. Shot number five broke the deer's neck.
The performance of the Nosler Protected point at 2700 FPS MV on a deer no farter away at any time then 35 to 40 yards soured me so badly on the Nosler Partiton bullets that I have not used them since.
Tiny wound channels from a .308 Win. and from a 30-06. I find this more than interesting. Could it be that the Nosler 30 caliber 180 gr. Protected Point bullets be a bit tougher than the spitzer version of the Partition?
I wonder? can anyone else chime in with results with that bullet in the .308, 30-06 and .300 magnums and what were their results?
Paul B.