I was needing suggestions for bullet for the 300 rum on whitetails. I have been shooting the factory swift bullets, but they do not preform well until you get out past 150 yards. This seems like a great forum I have just started reading it.

Welcome to the Form!!In my 300 RUM I shoot the Swift Scirocco 180 gr bullets and I shoot nosler partitions. I have also found the Remington 180 bullets to be very accurate also.

I'm taking this gun bear hunting in Aug when the season opens. Me and a few other guys are going to Canada bear hunting.

Switch-please define what you mean by they don't perform well inside of 150 yds?

Mark D

I am for guessing you nay be wanting a bit of a tougher bullet but will wait to guess till I hear back.

I have a 300RUM Sendero and boy does it shoot. I have a load worked up that uses the Swift Scirocco 180gr. Be warned that if you shoot a whitetail with this gun and bullet combo you will be destroying a lot of meat. This year my hunting partner shot a mule deer at over 300yds. with this combo and the front half of the deer was dog food. It is a wonderful combo but boy does it hit hard. After his kill I decided that the 270Win. in the back of the truck would be the gun I would use to kill my Muley. Glad I saw what it would do to a deer before I shot one with mine. The 300RUM is a devestating round. Be careful what you shoot with it cause it doesn't mess around. The Swift bullets are top of the line components. Of the various bullets I've tried, the Swift bullets are on the top of my list.

I shot 2 deer last year both inside of 150 yards and both got up and ran off, with little or no blood trail. I thougth that the swift bullet blew through the deer not expanding. I shot one this past week at 240 yards and I had ample blood trail, she only ran about 30 yards. Thanks for the replys. Eric

unless you use a frangible pill, it will do that because of the speed. I have a 1000yd light gun built in that caliber and have seen clean pass-throughs at 200yds. If you are hunting under that range, use a HUNTING bullet for light skinned game. I had better luck with matchkings than bonded bullets at close range. Try a balistic tip or a core-lokt or something like that. The RUM is screaming fast and bonded pills will NOT meet enough resistance up close. Now at 417yds with a matchking, I spun a full sized whitetail around 180* before it hit the ground. This is NOT a meat friendly whitetail caliber with hunting bullets.

You guys are nuts. This whole "zipping through at close range without having time to expand" crap is pure bunk. From Partitions to X-bullets to Ballistic Tips to AccuBonds to Matchkings at high velocities, I've seen absolutely nothing to support anything other than the close range shot being more devistating--causing more damage--with equal shot placement on the same animal is even remotely possible. Someday, I'd love to see some sort of evidence of this besides, "I shot a critter and it ran away! That must have been the problem!"

I'm with Jon.

I also shoot a 300rum. This yr I shot a 5 pt mulie at about 40 yds at a raking angle. The bullet entered just ahead of the diaphram and did not exit. I'm shooting a 180 accubond over 93 gr rl25 w/ fed 215. The bullet entrance wound was large, taking out 3 ribs. The angle would have exited the offside shoulder, maybe ahead of it (he was running, tough to be sure). The deer ran about 150 yds before piling up. I can't say it was a bullet failure--I misused it. I don't think there is a bullet out there designed for that sort of impact. B/c I was 3 miles from the truck and it was late in the day, I quickly deboned the deer and started packing him out. I never found the bullet, so I can't report what was left. But I don't think the remains would be impressive, based on the fact that it didn't even exit.

The assumption that the bullet did not expand is wrong. The opposite is true. The bullet blew apart and its remains lost all momentum. The evidence is illustrated clearly in this chart:

http://www.seahook.com/bestbullet.jpg

As a result of this close-up encounter, I changed bullet weights this year, mid-season. Unfortunately, I didn't connect with an elk so I have no more experience to share. I'm now shooting a 200 accubond, and expect better results due to the additional mass as well as the slower velocities. If you are looking for recommendations, this is what I would suggest you try, too.

As a side note, I have killed a dozen or so deer and antelope, and this is the only failure to exit. I have used a game king (180, head shot), a ballistic tip (180, upper chest), and quite a few 180 accubonds. The farthest shot was 375 yds on another 5 pt mulie (10 pt if you're reading this from the S or E!). The closest was the head shot at about 100 yds. Also, I built a gong w/ 3/4" plate steel. My wife's 308 w/ 150 interbonds left a divit maybe 1/16-1/8" deep. A 30-06 was barely deeper. The 300rum nearly shot through the metal, leaving a deep, gnarly hole that I can fit my pinky finger into the holes almost to the first knuckle with plenty of room to spare (there was metal turned outward from the impact side as though they were exit holes). I was shooting the 200 accubonds from 255 yds. This really is a remarkable round.

Switch did you find the 2 deer?

Mark D

Mark, I did not find either of the deer or any blood. I shot the both the same afternoon about 2 minutes apart. They both ran to some tall sage grass and gave them about 15 mins. before looking for them. When I got close to where the 1st deer went down it got up and ran off. Samething with the second one. We looked for blood for a couple of hours, I could not go back the next day accout work, but I look the following day and found nothing. I am thinking of trying 165gr gamekings.

quote:

This whole "zipping through at close range without having time to expand" crap is pure bunk.

Yes it is.The closer the range,the higher the impact velocity,the more rapid the expansion.

I am thinking about getting a 300 RUM do you recommend it? Or should I go for a different type of 300 mag?

quote:

I am thinking about getting a 300 RUM do you recommend it? Or should I go for a different type of 300 mag?

How far do you intend to shoot?Do you have access to at least a 400 yard range and do you intend to practise regularly?Do you handload?

At distances of 300 yards or less the 300ultramag offers no real advantage over the 300winmag,but it does offer more recoil and shorter barrel life.If you don't have access to a 400 yard range or if you don't intend to practise regularly,you will not be able to develop or maintain the shooting skills necessary to take advantage of the 300ultramags ballistics.The 300ultramag factory loads are both expensive and very mild so unless you handload ,you won't gain a lot over the 300winmag and it will cost you much more for ammunition.

sorry gents, things might be different in your states but here in the beanfields I have had to walk several hundred yards from the POI to get toooooo many crop damage deer shot under 200yds with the 300RUM. My pills consist of 200gr SMK's at 3208fps and 216gr clinch rivers at 3150fps. They DO NOT reliably open up every time, that is not fantasy, that is reality. The only way to get them to open reliably is to trim the meplats which in turn increases the diameter of the hollow point and THEN they open reliably.

Maybe my 30" select match tube has something to do with it?? I know what I have seen, so if I were ti HUNT with it as a HUNTING rifle, I would frangible bullets made for HUNTING. I have proven too many times that even though the power is awesome, match pills have jumped right through the deer out to 200yds and I could hear the destabilized bullet whizzing in my earphones while the deer went several hundred yds before falling down. Try finding that deer once the beans get to be waist high.

if your hunting with it, use a hunting bullet. I have many match rifles that will efficiently smack down whitetail with match pills,..but this one has proven unreliable and coincidently is also the most powerful of the bunch. She will hold in the .1"s if you can do your part, so shot placement damn sure aint the reason for the results. YMMV

quote:

My pills consist of 200gr SMK's at 3208fps and 216gr clinch rivers at 3150fps. They DO NOT reliably open up every time, that is not fantasy, that is reality.

What do you expect using match bullets?You stated previously that bonded bullets would not open reliably at close range but then you change the topic to match kings which are not bonded hunting bullets.Trying to compare match kings to bonded hunting bullets is ridiculous.By the way,I have sectioned both the 180gr ballistic tip and the 180gr accubond and aside from the bonding the construction is virtually identical.I have also witnessed both being used on game,and both expand reliably even at high velocity.

I have run the tests with the 140gr accubond against the 150gr balistic tip, and the 140gr accubond penetrated more with less wound channel and shrapnel damage than the NBT,..even at another 10gr's in weight. So I have evidence on real game as well to refute yours. Such is the way of things in the shooting sports, there is NO "always" or "never".

also, if you can't manage to reliably open a soft jacket on a match pill like a clinch river, then you ain't gonna open an accubond IMHO. Even with trimmed meplats, they did MORE damage, but nowhere near as much as even a corelokt did (the aforementiond frangible hunting bullet I suggested). The 200gr accubond at just under 3200fps was suprisingly meager in it's damage, and the animal did jaunt a fair ways.

as to grammatical symmetry, maybe stating that "with the exception of match pills, the 300RUM will do all this and that damage and blah blah blah" To say "the" bullets or "the" caliber opens up more aggresively the closer you are, is false, I have proven that with match pills. So, stating anything in entirety without having proof of everything is foolish and not though out. To have said with brands A, B, C etc bullets,..which you have actually tested, that they will blow up and work harder on the meat/bone would have been correct, so in this instance we BOTH get a red mark for mistating our responses with respect to "always" or "never" type of logic.

all I am saying is don't be suprised when it shoves a pill through the game while screaming fast and you don't feel as if the bullet was as bad ass as advertised when inspecting the wound. My antelope at 407yds last year was struck with a 160gr accubond, and the hole was the same size on both sides. It left the bore at 3150fps. Now, on deer here at 425yds with the 150gr NBT at 3200fps, I have opened them up to the tune of a 6" blow-out on the offside. The 10gr difference IMHO is NOT what leads to that performance in my rifle (the same rifle for both) but the construction of the bullet. This result has been exagerated at closer ranges,..so I have seen what I need to. I use the NBT for whitetails because they are thin skinned and easy to kill. Overpenetrating is, on the majority, the cause of deer that run off for a long ways around here during hunting season,..and it is always the guy with magnum-itus and his extra tough, buffalo killer, armor peircing, be-all and end-all, heavy construction bullet that he swears is the greatest thing going. YMMV Use what you want, but for whitetail, especially up close, I want an explosive bullet or one that mushrooms fast with less resistance needed as that is what drops them on the hooves for me. not to mention that switchback has seen the exact same results with the scirocco, which is a bonded type bullet if I recall correctly.

So are you saying that an accubond or an interbond will not expand at higher velocity,but will expand at lower velocity given identical shot placement?That is what myself(and I believe Jon A as well) took to be the meaning of the statement that we quoted from your first post.

well there are two of us saying they have seen better destruction at higher speeds, and 2 of us saying we have seen the opposite with these same bullets. Where does that leave us? I didn't say it was right or wrong, just that I have seen the other side which suprised no-one more than myself.


I have seen tough constructed bullets in my 300RUM (200gr accubond in particular) pencil through with very little disruption factor when being pushed much above 3100fps at impact, but once they get out a ways, I.E. slow down some, the disruption appears. Don't ask me about the minute details of why because I don't know, all I know are the differences between the bullets that disrupt quickly when shoved fast and those that have to slow up some before they hit that "sweet spot" with regard to meat/bone damage. The differences are bonding or partitioning etc vs standard drawn jackets as well as the addition or ommision of polycarbonate or a greater amount of exposed lead.

I was under the OPPOSITE impression when purchasing my accubonds and had great hopes that they would blow up like balistic tips and penetrate even further while doing so (you know, the best thing since female sexual organs), but imagine my dismay when in both a 7mm and 30cal bore they were not that devastating at closer ranges where I was expecting to see red matter spread over 20ft worth of beans.

Then there are your two guys experiences at the other end of the spectrum, which is what I was looking for. So all I am left with is the fact that either some small variable exists such as both mine did not hit a rib and both yours did, or I have to do a lot more testing on live game to determine if my 2 calibers were flukes or there is something else at work here.

I beleive you had your stated results and wished I had as well. Now I have accubonds in 4 bore diameters but have resolved to use them at a bit farther range where they really seem to come into their own. But keep in mind,..My version of DRT involves a partially field dressed animal upon my arrival That is why I have found almost no whitetail bullets taht do what I want except the NBT and the a-max as well as a corelokt (cheap ass bullets that have shredded the boiler room for me on many occasions) Don't get me wrong, I have not given up on the accubonds and will try them more during crop permits with young crops because the beans are low to the ground.

as far as the interbonds and SST's,..I have not figured out the secret to those yet. I have not gotten them to fly like I want so have not used them to hunt with (maybe their jackets and my FAST twists don't like each other?). I do plan on trying the triple shocks as well, as I have heard they can be pushed very fast and still be explosive.

That's all I got, just some experiences I was not happy with using the tougher bullets. My pard has the same rifle with the same barrel cut by the same reamer, and he had to have my help tracking more deer than not with the 180gr scirocco.

I am betting that with the 30-34" tubes in fast twist rates, there is a point at which some variable changes enough to make these things happen. Other than that, I am at a loss for the exact reason why, I just know what I saw and it sounds very eerily like switchbacks experiences, right down to the minimal blood and long tracks.

C, it's not really just two guys' observations vs. two other guys' observations. Stubble's and mine agree with the observations from basically everybody else out there with much experience--pushing a bullet too fast at close range and you risk over expansion which can mean lack of penetration if the bullet comes appart. It also agrees with every penetration test ever performed in every medium ever used that I know of.

It's only once in a blue moon you hear somebody advocating the opposite--that a bullet lightly constructed enough to expand reliably at long range and low velocities might fail to expand up close at high velocity when impacting the same critter in the same place. In every case I've seen where somebody does, it's based upon one or two observations that I believe were mis-interpereted--most of the time the animal wasn't recovered so no unexpanded bullet was recovered, shot placement wasn't verified, the wound channel couldn't be inspected, etc. Basically no evidence whatsoever that this occured--they shot and the deer ran away.

After doing quite a few penetration tests with Sciroccos at high and low velocities and seeing them work on game, my "guess" about what happened to Switchback is nothing more than the bullets didn't exit, that's why there was no blood trail. Sciroccos open up big and wide and can't be counted upon to exit all the time even when you'd expect it from the caliber/weight. Why did they run off? It could be a million reasons. Animals can react differently to similar hits and even a whitetail can, at times, cover a bunch of ground with shredded vitals. But without at least verifying shot placement everything is conjecture. When guessing what might have happened, the most logical guesses are not the ones that are contrary to basically everything about terminal ballistics.

I've seen AccuBonds leave exit wounds so small they could not be found until skinning (338 RUM, 225 ~50 yds IIRC). I've also seen Partitions leave small exit wounds at close range. Both of these bullets can "blow off the front core" very quickly when impact velocity is high leaving a pretty small diameter shank to continue penetration and exit. Looking at the wound channel (particularly the first part of it) usually shows this is what happened fairly obviously.

That may not be what happened to you though. You may have just been expecting too much--"red matter spread over 20ft?" If that's what you want, stick to Ballistic Tips. If you're used to, and expecting, the destruction Ballistic Tips can do, you're likely going to be disappointed with the AccuBond. It is tougher and won't be as violent as some of the more frangible bullets. After initial expansion, it won't leave as big a wound channel as a Scirocco or Interbond that stays at such a large diameter but it may exit when they don't. I'd personally like something that expands to a huge diameter and penetrates to the moon. That requires going up in weight.

You also are basing much of this on results from bullets like the Clinch River I'm guessing. When trying to make some sort of scientific correlation between two events (impact velocity and expansion) you need to eliminate other variables. How extensively have you tested the expansion characteristics of that bullet? How consistently does it perform? I don't know as I've never used it, but unless you have complete faith in its predictability, you could be seeing nothing more than inconsistent performance from the bullet and misplacing the blame.

I don't mean to sound like I'm ragging on you or anything. But if you have confidence in a bullet to consistently expand at low impact velocities, you're really barking up the wrong tree being worried about them not opening up at high velocities. I'm worried people might follow in your footsteps and suffer failure from the opposite.

Yes, strange things can happen. Bullets can fail to expand. But "in general," for any bullet I have complete confidence in to open reliably at low velocity (which includes the AccuBond, BT and Scirocco but not some others) the thing you should be worried about at close range is over-expansion and lack of penetration. Not the opposite. I feel anybody chosing a more fragile bullet for high velocity impacts by following your recommendations is setting himself up for disappointment.

I can respect your opinion on high velocity and frangible pills,.but as I said whitetail (which was the only animal I was referring to, nothing larger) they are easy to kill and NBt's have by far been the most impressive killing bullet I have used. Now out here, 200lbs will be a large deer, so no muiles or anything at 350lbs or more. The whitetail, especially in the summer are very easy to put down.

The difference (if this is one) from switchback not finding his deer, and me finding mine is that I did find an exit hole. I had to leave the field and venture into the woods on 2 of them, but I found them to see if I could determine what happened. In both cases, the exit hole was boiler room location, right behind the shoulder, and the exit was no more than a dime sized hole AT BEST. Now, if they would have dropped on the spot instead of going 200yds, I would have said,.."fine". But, the fact that they run like that at that close a range with that much velocity was somewhat disappointing, especially with a 200gr accubond.

The clinch rivers and SMK's are not what I would call relaible, until you trim the meplats and open the hollow points to a uniform dimension, then they act like a balistic tip, or a land mine.

so I'm at sqaure one,..my bullets exited and performned in a less than spectacular way in both expansion and relocation of the game after impact.

Like I said, not that I don't beleive you guys, I have just seen some "other" results as well as the expected ones. The only thing I could attribute it to was the speed of the chambering.

If a bullet blows up on a deer at that close of range (75yards) would the deer not absord 4000lbs of energy. That should be enough to put the deer down, even if the bullet did not pass thru.

it has been very very ugly whenever I have blown a bullet up inside or upon impact on a deer. The damage is usually spectacular and the energy transfer slams them to the ground. They may kick for a few seconds, but have never been able to regain their footing. They exsanguinate in seconds!! YMMV

quote:

Originally posted by Switchback:
If a bullet blows up on a deer at that close of range (75yards) would the deer not absord 4000lbs of energy. That should be enough to put the deer down, even if the bullet did not pass thru.

A Scirocco is unlikely to blow up. They can flatten out like a pancake making a nice big hole and not exit, but they're still not going to do the total damage a bullet that comes appart inside the deer can do.

The last deer I shot with the 200 Accubond from the 300 RUM at close range simply walked away and disappeared into the woods. He didn't go far, but it took me a while to find him. The reason? Shot placement--I hit him a little too far back (quick shot before he stepped behind a tree while he was walking). The wound channel was plenty big (but nothing like I've seen from bullets that come appart) but the hole was through the wrong organs. The thought that a Ballistic Tip or Matchking may have dropped him on the spot doesn't make me blame the bullet--it was shot placement at fault. If you want something to drop in its tracks with a bullet that stays together I typically take out one or both front shoulders but didn't in this case. If you want the best chances of an instant drop with a pure lung shot, use a bullet that blows up.

Just C, I'm just at a loss to understand why, when there are so many possible variables envolved, the thing you choose to attribute the results to is something completely contrary to everything we know about terminal ballistics--that had you shot that exact same deer in the exact same spot with the exact same bullet at a lower velocity it would have expanded more. It just doesn't work that way.

I think you'd be much happier with the performance of A-Maxs, etc. You don't need (or want) a tough bonded bullet for pure lung shots on small deer. But that has nothing to do with bulles expanding more at lower velocities.

Here is proof that bonded bullets dont expand at close range! NOT!! 180 grain Hornady Interbond fired into a 275 lb whitetail at 100 yards. 300 Ultra mag 3350 fps. Recovered this morning!

Some people get a lot of pleasure from over gunning but it is not really necessary. I don't even use my 300 SAUM on whitetails. The 7mm08 is much better suited for taking whitetails than the big guns. We all see things a little different since we are not clones. If you don't like the way the 300 RUM performs on deer then drop down in size to something more efficient if economics permit.

Thanks for the pics, Idaho_Elk_Hunter. That's the most mangled Interbond I think I've seen yet. How much does it weigh now? I'll bet it made a decent sized hole as far as it penetrated. How far did it penetrate?

I love the way my Ultra performes on everyhting I have shot with it. The man asked about bullets and I gave him my opinion on them. exspansion is great but I havent had a pass thru on anything I have shot but paper. Just seems a 180 grain bullet at that speed would shoot thru a whitetail. I have more rifles than I can use and usually dont over gun myself but got curious to try it on a whitetail.
The bullet weighed 110.8 grains.
I have tried the Interbonds and accubonds in a few different calibers and dont understand why people are reporting how they blow thru and I havent had a first pass thru.
My wife took her first buck this year with a 7mm-08 with a 154 grain Accubond at 30 yards and bullet was recovered weighing 61 grains.
I guess I will give the Barnes a try.

quote:

Originally posted by Switchback:
I shot 2 deer last year both inside of 150 yards and both got up and ran off, with little or no blood trail. I thougth that the swift bullet blew through the deer not expanding. I shot one this past week at 240 yards and I had ample blood trail, she only ran about 30 yards. Thanks for the replys. Eric

Eric,

I don't think that your bullet failed but that you hit the deer in a bad place. I suggest that you do more practicing on paper this winter with that rifle.

Now it's possible that a particular bullet is defective. Just because it's a premium bullet does not mean that every bullet they make is the same but the chances of this are slim. If you don't doubt that the bullets hit a vital spot on each of those deer then pull one of the bullets and file it in half.

I shot a small buck broadside with a 358 Win and the little guy ran a hundred yards. It was in open hardwoods so he was easy to follow. I filled one of those 200 gr round nose .358" bullets in half and while there is lead all over the tip its not the case under that as the jacket is closed off to a pin hole.

In any case get some different ammo and practice.

It's easy to file a bullet in half. Hold a piece of wood in a vice and whittle a shallow spot for half of the bullet to lie. Drive a finishing nail where the base of the bullet goes and file towards the nail.

Also shoot some of those loads into water filled cartons or jugs and recover the bullets.

http://www.northforkbullets.com/308-180.htm

http://www.northforkbullets.com/308-165.htm

http://www.northforkbullets.com/308-200.htm

http://www.northforkbullets.com/308-150.htm

Some of these bullets held up for a pic @ 3500fps, so I doubt there would be a problem if you used these in the RUM. Lots of others use em in larger calibers and they kick tail when pushed fast or slow.

I am using a 250SS in my 375RUM(big bore, I know), and shall post pics of the bullet if I can find it after my hunt on Tues or Wed.

Jon, I only gave a guess as to the attribute of the results. I don't have brinell hardness test equipment to compare jacket and core density of the bonded bullets to their BT counterparts nor do I have the equipment necessary to determine the "spin-up tourque" required to start the core-jacket expansion and/or seperation.

All I can say is that boiler room shots with stronger bullets, when pushed to high velocities have shown me more passthroughs with less damage than slower impacts with similar bullets in similar situations. Whatever the reason is, I have seen it many more times than once. NOT that it will happen every time or maybe not even 1 out of 10, but I have seen it enough to know it exists. I have not seen this with balistic tips or even the a-max match pill.

Your "late" shot description would be the exact reason I would go with a more frangible bullet, you wouldn't have had to go that far, if at all.

Don't anyone base their decisions on me, I am simply playing devils advocate here. I was always under the same impression as the folks who say faster=more dead, but since I have been shooting crop damage permits for a decade now, I have had a huge amount of data collected with all types of bullets. I am not saying right or wrong, just saying what I've seen. And unless one can reproduce the same shot consistently I.E. (one bullet hits a rib where the next bullet slides between them) then we may never have a scientificaly controlled data set. I do know I never have to look for a balistic tip deer,..even down at 2600fps and lower impact speeds. YMMV

I hear ya. A scientific experiment is just so hard to conduct on live game animals with so many variables. Anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by JustC:
Your "late" shot description would be the exact reason I would go with a more frangible bullet, you wouldn't have had to go that far, if at all.

You're right, of course. When you want to use the same bullet for raking shots on elk, requiring penetration for chest shots on deer, there will be compromises. A "blow-up bullet" will kill deer faster. I might go more frangible next year--I'll be playing with at least a couple different flavors of 240's or 250's and won't be going after elk so there's no need for an "all around bullet."

Although I'm not all that worried about it either--as long as it opens some and puts a hole through the lungs the deer isn't going far. But back to my point--I'm much more worried about lack of expansion at long range than short with any bullet.

I took a .300RUM with 180gr Nosler partitions to Africa last year. Also, I have some info below on Swift bullets from the factory rep at SCI last year.

I shot two springbok inside of 75 yards. First was running straight away, and the rear half of the animal was a mess. Really sad. Back end was gone, and there was a burned hole.

Another was quartering towards. It hit him in the chest and his belly opened stem to stern and he lost his entrails in about three strides. So my experience on smaller animals at close distance with the .300RUM and Nosler partitions is that the bullet explodes and destroys everything.

I shot larger animals and close and medium ranges (black wildesbeest at 175, oryx at 100, kudu at 125) and the Nosler expanded and kept the majority of its weight on the non-pass thru's. On a follow up Texas heart shot on the black wildebeest, the bullet went from the butt to the front of the chest cavity. Pretty impressive.

At longer distances, I shot an impala at just over 250. It passed thru. I shot two springbok at very long distances, and I got pass thrus with good expansion, too.

Also, I talked to the Swift guy at SCI about my close range explosions. He indicated their tests showed the Aframe would hold together and the Scirocco's were being redone in 2005 to hold together at RUM speeds and close range. Could be the loaded ammo or Sciroccos you have are the "old" version.

Steve

I would love to have a definitive way of prooving these things,..but like we say, every shot is different. The variables from shot to shot are set apart by a large margin and consistency in testing is near impossible.

Jon,..I would however, if I were doubling up on an elk load as well as a deer load, have to go with the tougher of the two bullets, or have a seperate load for each one as I am sure a NBT (except very large bores) would be a tad light for the elk, so the accubond or other tougher pill we be my do-all as well. But for whitetail and smaller,..man the NBT is like a lightning strike even at 500yds the devastation is awe inspiring and fast as lightning too. I have hit a full grown deer in the neck at 425yds with a 7mm 150gr NBT leaving at 3200fps and there was only a small amount of skin/fur holding the top to the bottom Some guys won't like that because of meat loss,..I tend to like not having to take a mark as to where the animal left my sight

let me know how the NBT treats yer smaller game

quote:

I am sure a NBT (except very large bores) would be a tad light for the elk,

I have taken 8 elk and 2 moose with the 180gr ballistic tip out of my 300ultramag.If you section one of these bullets produced in the last few years you will see that they look exactly like the same weight accubond without the bonded core.They do not expand nearly as rapidly as the earlier versions.That being said,the tsx shoots just as accurately in my rifles and penetrates better,so it is now my first choice.

gixxer ----- Thanks for providing the information on the North Fork bullets. I shoot them in several calibers, including the 200 grainer through my .300 Winny. The 200 grain bullets shown on the North Fork site that took the Elk at 420 yards were loaded by me for a buddy. He won the Elk Foundation special hunt at Marino Ranch a few years ago. He had heard me mention the accuracy I got with the North Forks and asked me to load him some loads. He hunts with me on occasion and is a very experienced hunter that has taken many Elk over the years. He shot the Bull at 420 yards, hitting it two out of three shots. He and I felt the bullets performed perfectly and sent them to North Fork for inspection and weighing. We are proud that we had a small part in promoting this great bullet. If you reload and want the most accurate-tough bullet on the market today, try them. Good shooting.

Cool Phurley. Anyhew, the pigs were not cooperating at the hunting grounds, so no bullet pics. I had the chance to shoot an armadillo @ 10 feet, but I doubt the bullet would be stuck in the opposite hide...

I think it was about 2-3yrs ago they redesigned the 180gr jacket BECAUSE of the guys running them at varmint speeds from the supermagnums. I havn't used any 180grNBT pills in my 300RUM because since it is a match barrel for IBS and I am trying to save bore life in an already unfriendly chambering. I have heard they are much tougher though, glad to have some confirmation on that. Maybe I'll screw this barrel off and use it on a hunting rig and try some 180grs,...this RUM is a bit too much for competition.