I'm really sorry to see them do that, but business is business. I'm lucky, my brother mistakenly bought me a CZ in 7X57 rather than the 9.3X62 I "really" wanted. I grudgingly scoped it and took it to the range. Wow, did that rifle shoot! No recoil and I am getting an honest 2550 with 175 grain bullets. Another AR member sold me a "hog back" stock to replace the American style stock, so when I go to Zimbabwe this next summer, it will go with me for the plains game animals I'll chase after the buffalo. So I guess it was a good thing for me after all.

Eldeguello

My pressure trace and software is on the way, so we'll find out about the pressures on these hot 7x57's. I should have the data on my 160 grain load by the end of the week, if I have time to get to the range. I think the pressure will be reasonable, but I'll put up a picture of the graph.

...CZ no longer produces the 7x57mm Mauser in its rifle lineup because there was no call for it.

Then he said the company even stopped manufacturing rifles for the 7x57mm in Europe because there was not enough demand for it there either.

I think that sums it up fairly well. A company can't continue to produce a product if there is no demand for it. It's just basic economic reality. (Too bad about CZ though. The 7x57 deserves more attention.)

-Bob F.

I never got a chance to shoot that caliber, and the way things r going i might not ever be able to. but i hear good things about it how it is a good deer and prong horn caliber and all. I almost bought one but i went for a savage in .270WSM instead, i am happy with my choice.

Folks tend to overestimate the popularity of the 7x57.

1. We tend to think of it as a European cartridge, but it was never adopted by any major military force in Europe. I believe Spain did use it in small numbers. Nearly all contracts were for export to banana republics. It is more of a Central/South American cartridge.

2. It was designed for pre-98 small ring and short action mausers. While Mauser did chamber some commercial rifles for it, most folks wanted the 7x64, which fits perfectly in standard 98 actions. The 7x64 has been the predominant commercial small bore cartridge in Europe for decades.

3. It has never been anything more than a novelty here in the US as well. Very limited numbers by any commercial manufacturer. It gained some interest after WWII, when cheap surplus mausers and ammo from Mexico came on the market.

It is fine cartridge that served a purpose in the 19th century, but it has been a hard sell commercially in the 20th century. It couldn't compete with the .270 in the US or the 7x64 everywhere else.

Anyone who wants a 7x57 can pick up a sporterized small ring mauser, as there are plenty of those kicking around. Personally I would prefer a sporterized mauser over a CZ any day of the week.

Tom,

I recommend you rethink your log in name, perhaps 7X64 or 7-08 or 280 Rem, or take it up a notch to 7 mm RM, 7 SAUM or 7 WSM. Or even 7 mm Weatherby or STW if you don't like your barrel.

My opinion is the 7X57 lives on as a mythical cartridge in our hunting folklore, and it never was a real hunting alternative here in North America. Apparently it is also no longer a real cartridge in Europe either.

The cartridge that got all the buzz in the foreign hunting stories is one that fired a 175 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity of about 2,350 fps from a barrel with a twist faster than 8". Many of those bullets were solids, notably from a .275 Rigby!

CZ is not making it anymore, but what American makers chambered it?

Why is CZ not making rifles that don't sell allowing the ship to get away from the dock?

jim

.

I don't know how many times the 7mm Mauser been chambered then droped and then chambered again for the American Market. Ruger chambered both the M-77 and No 1. I have a Winchester Feather Weight so Chambered. Right now people who buy rifles are buying Short Mags. You could say the same thing of the 280 Remington or the 358 Winchester and a number of other good cartridges that sell but not enough to keep making rifles for them all the time.

As a hunting cartridge, the 7mm Mauser like the 6.5 x 55 perform well beyond paper charts say they should.

.

schromf

7X64 brass can be bought from huntingtons, I think it's RWS

In Sweden 7X57R is a popular caliber for drillings etc.


Cheers
/ JOHAN

Smallfry,
You failed to copy the first part of Alf's post.

"There is much to be said for the sedate recoil and managability of a genuine original 7x57.

It has never claimed in itself to be anything else than an African plains game rifle. And as most local African hunters will profess that is what they use it for. Not to shoot long shots, or big shots, just simply a getter of game in a manner that is seen in our culture as "just right for the job"."

Therein lies the beauty of the 7x57 as a hunting cartridge. Granted the references to Bell are overdone but as a shootable, effective, medium game cartridge the 7x57 excels. The fact that there is not a large enough market to make it viable for manufacturers doesn't lessen that fact one bit.

Jeff

I bought a Dakota in 7X57 last year and used it for Deer hunting this year. What a joy to use. Soft recoil but plenty of power for Whitetail sized game. It has quickly become one of my favorate calibers.

Tom, I have no idea how popular the 7X57mm is in Europe these dau-ys, but if I am not mistaken the 7X57mm is still a very popular caliber in the reloading die market in the U.S. EVERY year!

I think it's a bloody shame they dropped it. Earlier this year, I had heard that Ruger had dropped it too, but it is still listed on their website in both the No. 1A and No. 1RSI, as well as the M77 line. I hope it hangs on - it's too good a cartridge to scrap!

I believe that the Ruger web site has not been updated. The 7x57 is still shown for the No. 1 (1-A and 1-RSI) but not for the M77 in the 2004 catalog (paper/print version) that I have at home. Also, as an example, Davidson's (a large distributor, see http://www.galleryofguns.com ) does not list the M77 as available in 7x57 any longer.

-Bob F.

Alf,

What myth about Bell and the 7x57mm? Your not going to tell me he really used a 30-30?

Regards,

Pete

One last thoughts on magnums. Most shooters don't perform as well with a magnum as a traditional caliber, particularly at moving game at close quarters. My 7x57 is ideal as a mountain/woods rifle. It carries better than any of my magnums, weighs a little less, is about 6" shorter cause it has both a short barrel and doesn't need a recoil pad. That is before balances come into the equation, I have only seen some very large African mags, and some older timber rifles that balance as well. I have two racks worth of rifles and none are better balanced than my 7mm, a couple come close, but not match.



The reason I can use a 20" tube is because this old antique round is an effiecent round and I don't lose a lot of velocity with the shorter barrel. I have never seen a mag I was comfortable with a shorter than 24" barrel, in extreme 22" but they roar and thunder when shot and lose a lot of velocity when the tube is that short.



Again match your tool to your task.



edited: One year elk hunting I was in Grizzly country elk hunting with my 7x57. I always check track carefully and ran into some very fresh, very close grizzly tracks. It had to be a huge old boar by the size, and I have seen enough tracks to know really big. Further it was not just a single sighting with it headed off into unknown direction, it was plentiful and I was doubling across the tracks several times.



I remember thinking to myself about the 7x57 I was carrying and the very high chances that I was going to run across this bear or worse yet he was into their classic stalking mode. This was an big bear or at minimum had very big feet and me being the smart fella I am equated big feet to big bear, kind of like smoke and fire.



First Grizzlys are protected and seeing one at 100 yards is definately not considered a threat to you. They need to be very close 15-20 yds max and getting agressive before you dare shoot one, violate that and the fine is tremendous, and your odds of hunting for the next 5-10 years are zip. With that nugget floating through my mind, knowing I would need to make both very quick and very accurate shot, I thought to myself: Why did you leave your 30 Mag in the truck? ( 1 mile or better away ). I do carry two types of ammo when I am in that country and I immediately changed from 150 gr Noslers to 175 gr. Remembering that head shots are bad, break a front shoulder and aim for the heart lung at the same time if you can. Confidence was on my side cause I handle the 7x57 very well, especially on quick shots, but the whole time I was prefering the 30 mag in the truck or the 375 in my gun rack at home, and thinking what an unfortunate circumstance that I had decided to take my favorite rifle today and left my favorite 30 mag behind.



I did finally see him across a clearcut, he was a monster old boar. I felt a lot happier when he went one way and I went the other. No harm no foul, and I am a lot richer in memories for it.

Read the question again, it�s fairly simple. A strait yes or no answer believe it or not will answer the question completely.

Smallfry,

Quote:

---

All I am talking about is an average, an average of one killing faster than the other, and the fact that you can see it.

skibum, do you believe that their "magnum" (or non magnum at a higher velo) counterparts Kill, on average, in equal or greater amount of time than the two cartridges mentioned?

---

NO, if you insist on making a grey world black and white I don't. Factor in all the missed shots by recoil shy shooters into the mix, and both of the calibers mentioned tend to end up in the hands of seasoned experience rifleman and hunters, and on a average I think the magnums account for less kills.

Quote:

---

an average of one killing faster than the other

---

Again too many variables, and I don't belive for a second that any such statistical number exists. But I sure would be interested if anyone can dig that data up.

Your answer is no. The "variables" you speak of, are only ones you have diluted my question with. The question related too cartridge performance only. An average does not have to be stated as a number, however you seem to think so. Your answer is "no" which means that...



schromf does not believe that magnum counterparts to the 6.5X55 and 7X57 kill any faster on average.

We have hijacked this thread which is something I don't like to do, I will open another under: mags vrs antiques, in the same forum and carry this on there.

.

Here's what I don't get: the 7mm-08 is selling quite well, despite the 280 Rem, 7mm WSM, RSAUM, Rem Mag, Weatherby, STW, RUM - did I mis one? - all outperforming it.

NOW, the 7x57 is a bigger case than the 7mm-08 and when seated out to 3.1" and loaded to modern pressures in a modern gun, will sit nicely inbetween the 7mm-8 and the 280 Rem, both excellent rounds.

If there is a place for the 7mm-08, and it happens to sit in a M70 or other with the old "x57" length magazine, I see no reason for it to be as unpopular as it is. Wonder how many M70 Featherweights USRMC sells a year?

Just too bad. I'm a fan myself. I believe a 7mm Mauser and 6.5 Swede M70 Featherweight with 24" tube are the ideal light-skinned toting rifle. a .284" 140g going almost 2900fps or a .264" 120g going over 2900 fps will get the job done with about 50-52g of powder. Nice.



-BTW after looking at numbers, you can get about the same recoil from a 6# 7x57 and 52g pushing the 140 @ 2875fps as a 7# 280 doing 3000 or a 9# 7mm Rem doing 3300. Hmmmm.

And I know you can load the other two down, but will accuracy be affected with lower load density? And you need a longer action as well (unless your action will already fit the Rem Mag, in which case I'd rethink the whole thing!)

If you can't kill it with a 7x57 in Europe you have either missed, hit it in the wrong place or got a bad dog/no dog.

If you missed because the trajectory was too round, you were too far away for European hunting.

The above assumes the ability to use an appropriate factory load ranging from 123gr to 175gr loaded to CIP standards.