The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Will the real 7x57 loads please stand up?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Before I resort to working up from 7mm/08 data in a 7x57 case Does anyone have any sources they'd like to share for 7mm Mauser data that isn't laughably anemic. My 20" full stocked interarms is begging for some more manly full pressure loads. With it's shorter bbl it needs all the help it can get. ---------------------------------------- If you waste your time a talkin' to the people who don't listen To the things that you are sayin' who do you thinks gonna hear And if you should die explainin' how the thing they complain about Or the things they could be changing who do you thinks gonna care Waylon Jennings | ||
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Why do you think that the 7X57 needs any help? W.D.M. KARAMOJO Bell killed a lot of Elephants with the 7X57 without hot rodding it. Are you afraid that it might bounce off? _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I'm lookin to hotrod by no means, I just expect to outperform 30-30 in the velocity dpt with similar bullet weights with he velocities I'm getting I'm doubtful that some of the heavier bullets would even expand in anything resembling a reliable fashion on thin shinned game. 2100fps with 160grn bullets just ain't gonna hack it bearing in mind many 7mm bullets are built more with 7mm Mag in mind ---------------------------------------- If you waste your time a talkin' to the people who don't listen To the things that you are sayin' who do you thinks gonna hear And if you should die explainin' how the thing they complain about Or the things they could be changing who do you thinks gonna care Waylon Jennings | |||
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Just look up 7x57mm loads using 160 grain bullets and go from there. Lyman, Nosler, Hodgdon all are good starting points. For something warmer, try the Norma data, available in a manual and on their website. My M-72 Steyr carbine prefers 160 grain bullets, and I have not found the max load yet. LLS | |||
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MY wifes 7x57 is a Daly barreled action cut off at 22" It likes 49grs RL19 and Nosler 140Accb. I have loaded it up to 51grs of RL19 and 50grs of H414. the 49 just happens to put the first 3 in the same hole. She has taken everything from doe to Oryx and Elk. So far all 1 shot kills. The Oryx was at 250+yds. Do know how dead they need to be. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Start working up from Hodgdon's 7 X 57 loading data on their website.....almost every load they show in CUP can be exceeded by a full two grains and still be in safe pressure ranges... But I reitterate..... work up ..... As a very rough rule of thumb a full grain extra will generate about an extra 2,500 PSI and about 50 FPS.....and the hodgdon data suggests that this is possible. I see no reason why your 20" barrel won't throw a 140 grain bullet 2,700 FPS.....and that kicks the crap out of the .30-30 That is three grains over the Hodgdon data.....and I suspect a well researched load. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Oooppss, forgot to add, my chronograph shows 2444 fps for a 160 grain Accubond out of this 20 inch carbine. LLS | |||
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My 7X57 with it's 20" barrel is 2270 with the factory loaded 175 grainers, rounds nose in the PMC brand and semi pointed in the Federal offering and just shy of 2700 with the 140 grain offerings I think that's right in line with were it should be. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Actually 1 over the Nosler manual. Yep worked up from 45 and the groups got bigger at the end. My wife's rifle just happens to like it's loads a couple grains off max. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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With the 160 grain bullets and up IMR 4350 and R-15 are good powder selections. Dirk "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
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Speer manual #13 shows max of 48gr. Win. 760 for their 145 gr. bullet. I use that charge with 140 gr. Sierra Pro Hunters (flat base) and it dropped 6 deer in their tracks for me last year. All pass through lung shots. All deer were does around 110 to 130 pounds. I like 760 and 414 for the 7x57 and some others here do to. Merg | |||
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Krochus, I reload my 7x57s from 30 years now. With 160 grains in a 20" barrel you can easely get at leas 2600 fps with entirely safe pressures !!Try any of the 4350, 760 or 414, any of the 4831, R19 amd R22. Start from the published data in the Hornady, Nosler and Speer manuals. Good luck !! PH | |||
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if you want velocity with the x57 you have to shoot the 140's or lower. but a 150-60 at 2600 is certainly adequate. with the hornady 139 at 2750 from my wifes rifle i am using 257 roberts +p brass and rl-19. i use rem brass in my ackley and i use 1 more grain of powder to reach the same velocity. now you are saying why hold the ackley back? cause i have run it up used premium bullets etc. and the 2750-2800 fps doesn't require expensive bullets don't destroy meat and will shoot across any canyons i have here. did i mention that it just kills everything i shoot. deer, elk [cows and bulls] coyotes,rabbits whatever. my wife shot a 250 lb deer in the chest facing her it exited through the back hip entered another buck in the ribs and exited through the shouder neck junction bone. these were shot at 125 yds i think that this is adequate penetration. | |||
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I have the idea that the original factory spec for the 7x57 was 2450 fps with a 174gr RN bullet. That may have been with a longer barrel 'though. Wouldn't it be true that the 7mm-08 loads in a 7x57 would produce slightly less velocity and quite a bit less pressure? I looks as though you should be able to reach 2600 fps with H4350 behind a 160gr bullet (with somewhere around 45/46gr). That is not a recommendation or a listed load! Just a guess! Regards 303Guy | |||
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The Nosler manual says 47.5 grains in the 7x57 for 2643 fps and 47.5 gr in the 7-08 for 2780 fps. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that the smaller cartridge with 140 fps more speed at the same charge is loaded to a higher pressure. It also doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you can get 2780 fps safely out of the 7-08, you can get it with the 7x57. These are with 160's not 140's. The best bet is to start with 7-08 data and work up until the chrono says 2700 fps or so out of a 22 in. barrel, probably 2650 out of a 20. I have shot thousands of 7x57's over the years, mostly loaded to its potential, individual rifles have shown as much as 200 fps variation with the same box of ammo due to throat variations, so you have to work up yourself. RL19, H414, and Ramshot Hunter will perform the best. I have two 7x57's now, a Ruger and a Mark x Mauser, both are long throated, My 160 partitions are loaded to 3.142 OAL, book max OAL is 3.000. The loads I shoot in mine might scare you to death and for good reason. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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I doubt it because if you'll look 7mm/08 loads almost across the board charges for the same bullet/powder are a couple three grains higher for the 7mm08rem vs 7x57mm. It stands to reason then that with 7x57's slightly larger case capacity in a modern platform 7mm08 data could be used interhangably Hodgon lists 29.5grs compressed of H4831 max for 160grn bullets in the 7mm08, but only 26.6grs max for the 7x57. Modern rifle built to handle the pressures involved and in a case with slightly more elbow room why couldn't you use 7mm08 data as a guideline? ---------------------------------------- If you waste your time a talkin' to the people who don't listen To the things that you are sayin' who do you thinks gonna hear And if you should die explainin' how the thing they complain about Or the things they could be changing who do you thinks gonna care Waylon Jennings | |||
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Krochus Check your loading data, I think you typo'd. The gr figures should be in the 40+ gr not in the 20's. If you want the classic 175 gr RN load for the 7x57 I load the Hornady 175 RN over 45 gr H4831 in WW cases with WLR primers at 3.05 AOL. Velocity is 2405 fps out of my 22" M95 chilean that is sporterized into a mannlicsher (SP). Accuracy is excellent and the pressure is 51,400 psi(M43). Larry Gibson | |||
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Hello jstevens, Your´s is exactly like my experiences with the 7x57s ! By the way just a few hours ago I chronographed and sight in my rifle(long throat chamber and M98 Mauser action) with some loads using my last batch of H-Mantle 173 grs bullets, leaving a box of 20 loaded rounds for hunting. WW virgin cases WLR primer R 22 powder (I will no write the load.....!!) 173 H-Mantle OAL 82 mm (3,228 inches) Average Velocity 6 shots: 2645 fps ! 6 shots in 1,3 inches at 100 meters. And 2 inches above point of aim. The bolt opens effortles, the primers looks OK, and measuring the Pressure Ring with the micrometer, was the same as the NORMA and RWS factory loads. Best Regards PH | |||
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i am on the same track as patagon hunter. i am getting about 20 fps less than him using the hornady 175 grain round nose. take a look at the newest speer manual. stout loads there. i like RL-22. i like the heavy pills in 7 mau. | |||
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OOOHHHH!!! H-Mantles, I crave H-Mantles in 6.5mm and 7mm. Why did RWS have to shut them down? LLS | |||
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Oh, oh ... Trouble ...! 
That's what I was trying to say - I think. I was surprized at the small difference in pressure between the two cartridges considering the larger case and smaller powder charges used. (In one or two loads the difference in charge and velocity was very small but the 7x57 had lower pressure). Well, other posters have shown my guess to be on the low side if anything, but 2645 fps with 175 grainers?! WOW! Nothing anaemic about that!  Regards 303Guy | |||
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With a 24" m98 I am loading 45.0/IMR 4350 with a 160 gr TSX at 2650. Very accurate load. Perry | |||
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Our 7x57's all shoot H-414 with 140 grain Nosler Partitions best. Each rifle has its upper limit on the powder charge, so I won't quote what they are. Work up for your rifle. Don | |||
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44grs of IMR4350 behind a 175 gr Nosler Partition. 1 gr below max straight out of the Nosler Handbook. Had absolutely no problem taking animals up to and including Kudu on my last trip to Zimbabwe. The rifle is a custom Mauser on a 1909 action with a very slim 22" barrel. Accuracy is in the 3/4" range for 3 shots. Have no need for anything more. Shots were out to 200yds in the case of some of the Kudu ( I shot several for rations and such) and I have been well pleased with the results. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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MCA man, Yeah! I will miss my H-Mantles. For me the best hunting bullets in 7x57 for Big Red Deer and Wild Boar. Period. MCA is for the Mannlicher-Schoenauer, perhaps? PH | |||
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Patagon Hunter I have never loaded a 175 in the 7x57, shot all my bigger stuff here and in Africa with 160 partitions at 2780 fps . These will test like 62000 psi on a pressure trace. Like some of the others I don't want to give out my data, in a short-throated rifle it would probably be 70000 psi. In mine, 24 in. barrel, 140's go just under 3000, 160's 2780 and I have probably shot 4000 of these as well as using the pressure trace. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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Well...you could always just look in the Nosler manual #5 That shows 3 powders achieving nominally 2650 out of a 22 inch bbl. So even if you knock of 50 ft for the 2 inches and 50 ft for relaoding manual hype. 2550 should be very doable with I4350 dook max is 46, I4831 book max is 49, or RL19 book max is 47.5. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I am enjoying all this talk about the 7x57. I plan to add a 7mm rifle to the group in the future, as a cartridge below my 30-06 in thump and recoil, but still capable of doing the job on medium game. Had looked at 7-08, 7x57, and 280 Rem (which is the same case as '06 I take it) but lean towards the 7x57 because of its flexibility and heritage. Still I get perturbed by the loading companies dumbing down the 7x57 compared to the 7-08...because of the "old" rifles out there? While the WSMs and RCMs and other Ms sound great, they would be burning just as much powder and thumping as much as an '06...ja? Oder nein? sputster | |||
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In the 'old Africa' the 7x57 was considered a big game cartridge. (They only had 174gr bullets to choose from). I wouldn't mind a 7x75 Rimmed on a Lee Enfield action. (Best of both worlds!) - Hey, what happened to the 'hiding behind a couch smiley'! Regards 303Guy | |||
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Hang on a minute here! I have just been looking at Hodgdon's reloading tables and I don't seem to find anything anaemic about the 7x57 at all. At modest SAAMI pressures the 100gr bullet does 3250fps (with some powders). Put that into JBM calculations and we have a rather remarkable long-range cartridge! (It's doing 2000 plus at 400m and drop is only half a meter. Wind 'bucking' is good too. With a mid-range high of 50mm it drops to 50mm low at 250m - with a 500mm high scope mount). Load that up to modern pressures and we have a rather hot performer. " 160 gr TSX at 2650." is an impressive figure! Why isn't the 7x57 more popular? At standard pressures the brass should last forever with no compromise on velocity! And the best part is i can rebarrel my No.4 to 7x57 Rimmed. Regards 303Guy | |||
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Took a doe last evening with a 175 grain Hornady round nose in 7x57 with a max load of RL-22. Neck entrance, exited opposite side on last rib. About 120 yards. No problems. | |||
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You would do the same if you was in their boots.....If it was discovered they misrepresented SAAMI specs in reloading the lawyers would have a field day The 7 X 57 in a modern bolt rifle (post 1898) is close in performance to the .270 but one must handload for it unless he wants to buy European ammo. If one likes some heritage in his rifle, a 7 X 57 in a '98 Mauser is about as good as it gets. 175 grain bullets move along at 2,400 fps is a nasty thing to do to an elk....but the 140 grain bullets at 2,800 FPS makes a very competitive deer hunting load.....but ya gotta roll yer own /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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jstevens, I also do use mostly 160 grs in my two 7x57. Te bullet I commonly use is the 160 gr Speer Mag-Tip. I have enough boxes to feel comfortable (althought I have learned that nothing is "enough" these days...much less down here...). That bullet at around 2750 fps muzzle velocity is perfect for my kind of hunting. I think it is an underated bullet. It behave more like a Nosler Partition on game, is cheaper but has a low BC ( of no consecuence for my anyway). And it seems to be created for the 7x57! Regards, PH | |||
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40 grains of IMR 3031 will give you better than 2650 fps in a 22 inch barrel with 160 grain bullets, if fact does 2650 fps with the 175 bullets in both of my long Throated Rugers... It also has given much tighter groups than Full case RL 22 loads have with the same bullet... Life Member: The American Vast Right Wing Conspiracy Jan 20, 2009.. Prisoner in Dumocrat 'Occupied America', Partisan in the 'Save America' Underground Beavis..... James Beavis..... Of Her Majesty's Secret Service..... Spell Check Division "Posterity — you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it." John Quincy Adams A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him "Why do you carry a 45?" The Ranger responded, "Because they don't make a 46." Duhboy....Nuttier than Squirrel Poop... | |||
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Ammo is still available, but handloaded ammo just adds that extra pleasure in selecting your own bullet and loading it the way you want it for your rifle. Here is a site that selles 7x57 mm ammo .... http://www.grafs.com/ammo/195 They are: Federal Hornady Norma PRVI Winchester PMP in SA also export ammo for this caliber. Highland and S&B ammo is also available. Warrior | |||
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My 7 x 57mm 24' barrel - cut down from the original Brazilian 1908 - with 140 gr Sierra, RP cases, WLR primer. 10 shot strings in each series. All projectiles seated at least 30 thou off the rifling or greater. All showed no pressure signs - flat or cratered primers, hard extraction, casehead marks. Norma N204 51 gr - 2760 fps average, good groups at 100yds, my favourite load. With 50gr AR2209 (sold in the USA as H4350) 2775fps, and 51 gr of H4350 - 2810fps. AR2208 - sold as Varget in the USA - 43gr ( 43gr was the max load shown prior to the down grading to 37.7gr by the ADI website ) 2730fps. I took this load - very carefully up to 45 gr of Varget and got 2880 fps but erratic readings - 2854, 2880, 2920. No high pressure signs but why push boundaries ?. With Hornady 154gr in a Norma case and 50gr of H4831 - 2664 fps and 3 shot 1" groups at 100yds. Very small extreme spread - 2653 to 2665fps - I was impressed by this load. If it was that I did not have a lot of 140 gr projectiles and a lot of N204 powder, this would be my preferred load. Arte et Marte | |||
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