Has anyone used them on deer? Would like to hear what you think.

IMO that bullet is intended as a varmint bullet and I'd recommend restricting it's use to it's intended design.

I have taken deer with the 120 gr ballistic tip out of a 7mm-08 with very good results.I have also used the same bullet out of a 7mmremmag with similar results.I have also taken a moose with the same bullet,again with good results.

quote:

IMO that bullet is intended as a varmint bullet and I'd recommend restricting it's use to it's intended design.

Nosler lists the 120gr-7mm ballistic tip as a hunting bullet,not a varmint bullet.But what do they know,they just manufacture the bullet in question.

http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=11&b=5&s=5&t=7mm

The 300lb live weight buck below was taken with a 120gr ballistic tip out of a 7mmremag.The lung shot from 80 yards exited.



For those people that don't know,Nosler thickened the jackets on the 120gr -7mm ballistic tips when they became popular with silhouette shooters.

A groundhog eats your alfalfa, clover, corn, beans, and anything else he shouldnt. He is a called a varmit. A deer does the same. So that means he could be considered a varmit in some ways. Shoot them with the 120gr BTs. You will never be dissapointed.

please notice that Nosler also lists the 168 B'Tip under hunting bullets and in other print says this:

quote:

Nosler, Inc. is pleased to introduce the new 30 caliber 168-grain Ballistic Tip®. The world’s leading manufacturer of premium grade hunting bullets added the 168-grain Ballistic Tip® to enhance the already highly versatile lineup for deer and antelope hunters.

The Nosler 30 168-grain Ballistic Tip® is designed for match type loads and to provide hunters with a predictable and forgiving bullet for unpredictable and unforgiving situations nature throws their way.

They also list their .30 cal 125 grain ballistic Tip as a hunting bullet. I've used it successfully in my .308.

Seems Nosler wants it both ways....

As to performance:....there's a ton of posts describing target bullets (Matchkings and A-Max bullets) as excellent deer bullets. I, personally, have dropped whitetails in their tracks with 55 grain soft points from a short barreled .222 using central rib cage shots. I have also caused deer to become DRT using a .270 and 90 grain bullet. (Sierra)

Hunters are welcome to use anything they like....If it works for you then use it.....

I'm sticking to my post on the 120 7mm

quote:

Nosler, Inc. is pleased to introduce the new 30 caliber 168-grain Ballistic Tip®. The world’s leading manufacturer of premium grade hunting bullets added the 168-grain Ballistic Tip® to enhance the already highly versatile lineup for deer and antelope hunters.

The Nosler 30 168-grain Ballistic Tip® is designed for match type loads and to provide hunters with a predictable and forgiving bullet for unpredictable and unforgiving situations nature throws their way.

All that they are saying is that this hunting bullet will provide match type accuracy.

quote:

They also list their .30 cal 125 grain ballistic Tip as a hunting bullet. I've used it successfully in my .308.

Nosler only lists their .308- 125 gr ballistic tip as a hunting bullet.And your point is?

quote:

As to performance:....there's a ton of posts describing target bullets (Matchkings and A-Max bullets) as excellent deer bullets. I, personally, have dropped whitetails in their tracks with 55 grain soft points from a short barreled .222 using central rib cage shots. I have also caused deer to become DRT using a .270 and 90 grain bullet. (Sierra)

Yet unlike the ballistic tip in question,the manufacturers of those bullets do not recommend them for hunting,for the simple reason that unlike the ballistic tip in question,they often fail to expand at all,and they often break up completely on impact.

quote:

I'm sticking to my post on the 120 7mm

And your are certainly entitled to that opinion as incorrect as it certainly is.

The 120gr 7MM NBT at 7/08 velocities work very well on deer. If they are accurate in your rifle use them with confidence. I would not use them in some of the magnum high velocity 7MMs.

they work great on whitetails in s. texas. have used them for over ten years in a 7/08 w/out a failure.

b h

The Ballistic Tip's solid base design provides surprisingly deep penetration for a bullet which is otherwise very expansive. With the possible exception of an extremely rare northern whitetail buck, whitetails simply don't grow large enough or tough enough to require more penetration that a ballistic tip will provide.

As to the specific bullet, I have only had occasion use it in a 7mm STW @ 3700 fps on one whitetail. That was several years ago and the last time I checked the buck was still dead.

Guess we all see it different. As for me I don't consider the ballistic tips a big game bullet regardless of weight or caliber.

They are too fragile and don't exit with any regularity.

quote:

Guess we all see it different. As for me I don't consider the ballistic tips a big game bullet regardless of weight or caliber.

They are too fragile and don't exit with any regularity.

Taken with a 180gr ballistic tip out of a 300ultramag.
http://i34.photobucket.com/alb...ejumper11/moose2.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/alb...ejumper11/moose3.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/alb...blejumper11/elk2.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/alb...jumper11/bullelk.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/alb...jumper11/2005elk.jpg

A 180gr ballistic tip recovered after penetrating both shoulders of an elk.

http://i34.photobucket.com/alb...umper11/PC210017.jpg

The retained weight was 111gr.

I'm a great fan of BTs but that's one I didn't like that much. I like expansion but to recover one on a very near broadside shot on a small roe buck shot out of a 7x57 at 200yards was a bit much for me. I also found them rather hard on roe carcasses.

I never had a 'failure' and everything died but I moved to standard Hornady 120gr softpoints which seemed a bit better balance for me.

I still use the 90/95gr 6mm, 100/120gr 6.5 and the 165gr 30cal.

Hey Strider, My info is a bit "dated" so it might not be relevant to the current Generation of B-Tips.

Just went and looked at what I have on the shelf. My remaining 120gr B-Tips are in a 100 count box, cost $17.35 and the box end has the Red upper left triangle over the Green lower right triangle. Don't know which Generation that is, but it is not the current one.

I'd guess "maybe" I Killed 150 Deer with that Bullet and it was pretty fragile. Did fine in Lung-to-Lung shots or Lung-to-Shoulder shots. Not sure I tried a direct Shoulder shot with it. Had to pass on some shots when Deer were a couple of rows into the early Beans. If I'd had a 140gr Partition, it would have Killed those.

I do remember the last Doe I shot with one, because it created a lot of excess Bloodshot meat. Bullet went in behind the right shoulder and came out the center of the chest. The part that surprised me was there was Bloodshot meat between the Doe and the Left Shoulder and 8"-10" to the aft of the left shoulder. She had plenty of "Energy" transfered.

Don't know about the 120gr B-Tip Generations in the smaller count boxes.
-----

For what it is worth, I'd say it really depends on the terrain where you Hunt. If it is from a Tree Stand over a Bean Field, a 140gr Partition will drive through 1 row and depending on the size of the Bean Plants a part of a second row is possible.

If you are Hunting up close(0-200yds), it will be difficult to beat the good old 130gr Speer Hot-Cor. Or if Hunting out a bit(200-400yds), the 130gr Speer SPBT. All I've mentioned, except the 140gr Partition, will require the Bullet to be Seated a good bit off the Lands, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. H414 is the Powder of choice for my 7mm-08, but it shoots many Powders well.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

quote:

Just went and looked at what I have on the shelf. My remaining 120gr B-Tips are in a 100 count box, cost $17.35 and the box end has the Red upper left triangle over the Green lower right triangle. Don't know which Generation that is, but it is not the current one.

Those are quite old,and are certainly not the same bullet as recent versions.

I love Nosler bullets and load the Partition in just about every serious hunting load I shoot. I have pondered a remark that Chub Eastman told me one time though. I was working on a load for my .338WM for caribou in Alaska and wanted to try the then new 200 grain Ballistic Tip. I called Nosler to see if they would recommend it for that kind of game. He said he had just got back from a moose hunt and shot a moose with that bullet with great results. He recommended it and said that is exactly what it was designed for after all "it contains 101 grains of copper". Whatever that is supposed to mean.

quote:

I have pondered a remark that Chub Eastman told me one time though. I was working on a load for my .338WM for caribou in Alaska and wanted to try the then new 200 grain Ballistic Tip. I called Nosler to see if they would recommend it for that kind of game. He said he had just got back from a moose hunt and shot a moose with that bullet with great results. He recommended it and said that is exactly what it was designed for after all "it contains 101 grains of copper". Whatever that is supposed to mean.

But what does he know?

After all:

quote:

IMO that bullet is intended as a varmint bullet and I'd recommend restricting it's use to it's intended design.

and;

quote:

Guess we all see it different. As for me I don't consider the ballistic tips a big game bullet regardless of weight or caliber.

They are too fragile and don't exit with any regularity.

I have not used the 120 grain bullet in my 7-08 much. I have loaded it before as a coyote load and it works extremely well on the smaller animal. Expansion was extreme. I confess that I was using early manufacture BT's so I cannot comment on any bullets manufactured recently.

I do use 150 & 160 grain partitions on deer. These bullets are fantastic on deer with good expansion and complete penetration. The deer usually drops at the shot or piles up 50 - 60 yards away.

quote:

I do use 150 & 160 grain partitions on deer. These bullets are fantastic on deer with good expansion and complete penetration. The deer usually drops at the shot or piles up 50 - 60 yards away.

At one time I used 140gr partitions for deer,and they usually ran from 50 yards to 100 yards(up to 200 in one case) before piling up.Since I began using ballistic tips,not one animal has covered 50 yards after being hit,and most drop on the spot,or within a few steps.

284 120 vs. 140 BT

Apparently Nosler has beefed up this bullet quite a bit in recent years to accommodate silhouette shooter. The picture seems to bear this out.

quote:

Apparently Nosler has beefed up this bullet quite a bit in recent years to accommodate silhouette shooter. The picture seems to bear this out.

As they say,a picture is worth a thousand words.Now does anyone still feel that a bullet with a jacket that thick is too fragile to use on deer.

quote:

does anyone still feel that a bullet with a jacket that thick is too fragile to use on deer.

Yup, I do!

Apparantly stubblejumper is the new marketing employee at Nosler.

I wish him well.

quote:

Apparantly stubblejumper is the new marketing employee at Nosler.

I wish him well.

I wish that I did hold that position,but I don't.I am just someone that has taken about 50 head of big game animals with ballistic tips.Unlike some people,my opinions are based on actual experience with ballistic tips on game from pronghorns to deer,to bighorns to elk to moose to bear.

The 120 gr BT is actually made with a 140 gr BT jacket. It is cut back to meet the 120 gr profile.
It makes for a more robust bullet.

JD338

quote:

Unlike some people,my opinions are based on actual experience

Well sonny, my experience includes a bull elephant and six cape buffalo. When you grow up you too will lose the ballistic tips!

quote:

Originally posted by rolltop:

quote:

Unlike some people,my opinions are based on actual experience

Well sonny, my experience includes a bull elephant and six cape buffalo. When you grow up you too will lose the ballistic tips!

And here I thought we were talking about deer.

quote:

Well sonny, my experience includes a bull elephant and six cape buffalo. When you grow up you too will lose the ballistic tips!

With ballistic tips?

We are talking about ballistic tips here,so unless you have actual experience with ballistic tips,your experience is not at all relevant.
As far as taking a bull elephant and six cape buffalo goes,it only means that you have the money to pay for such a hunt.

Seems Nosler wants it both ways.

Hunters are welcome to use anything they like....If it works for you then use it.....

I'm sticking to my post on the 120 7mm[/QUOTE]



Hey Vapo. These guys are certainly welcome to
use whatever bullet they want on deer. Even the ballistic tip from Nosler. For now, at least, this is still America.

However, I'm willing to wager that the first time they are slightly off on their shot and hit the shoulder bone, that proverbial lightbulb
will illuminate the darkness!

quote:

However, I'm willing to wager that the first time they are slightly off on their shot and hit the shoulder bone, that proverbial lightbulb
will illuminate the darkness!

Your reading comprehension obviously needs work.Look at my previous posts.Never mind,I'll quote my previous post so that you don't miss it again.

quote:

A 180gr ballistic tip recovered after penetrating both shoulders of an elk.

http://i34.photobucket.com/alb...umper11/PC210017.jpg

The retained weight was 111gr.

And that was BOTH SHOULDERS of an ELK.

quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:

quote:

However, I'm willing to wager that the first time they are slightly off on their shot and hit the shoulder bone, that proverbial lightbulb
will illuminate the darkness!

Your reading comprehension obviously needs work.Look at my previous posts.Never mind,I'll quote my previous post so that you don't miss it again.

quote:

A 180gr ballistic tip recovered after penetrating both shoulders of an elk.

http://i34.photobucket.com/alb...umper11/PC210017.jpg

The retained weight was 111gr.

And that was BOTH SHOULDERS of an ELK.

I did read the posts. My BS meter pegged out!
I thought I was responding to Vapodog? Too bad
you can't have a discussion without name calling or bad manners. Proof, I guess, of your
youthful ignorance? Perhaps Chuck Nelson is correct?

quote:

Too bad
you can't have a discussion without name calling or bad manners.

And calling someone a liar is not bad manners?

quote:

I did read the posts. My BS meter pegged out!

I think most people would consider that being called a liar.

quote:

Proof, I guess, of your
youthful ignorance?

It is you that is showing ignorance by calling someone a liar when they post actual experiences.If you took the time to actually use a product before calling someone a liar,you can reduce that ignorance greatly.

By the way,I have been hunting for 37 years,so I am not as youthful as you may think.

You are correct, Stubble. And I sincerely appologize. But I must say that I have well over 50 years hunting experience and that my experiences with the ballistic tip do not mirror yours?

We do need (all of us) to be more civil. Times
are a changin and we will surely NEED each other
for moral support as time goes by.

There are two big issues that seem to surface whenever ballistic tips are discussed.

One issue is that Nosler has produced many versions of the ballistic tip.The first versions of the ballistic tip were very soft,as I found out when I killed a few deer and pronghorn with the 100gr ballistic tip out of my 257wby.These bullets seldom exited unless the shots were broadside lung shots. Other people had the same issues with many of the original ballistic tips and complained to Nosler,who responded by introducing new versions with thicker jackets.Some particular weights and calibers have been redesigned more than once over the years.The final result being that some ballistic tips have extremely thick jackets,and are very tough bullets.
The problem is that many people were so put off with the first very soft versions,that they stopped using ballistic tips altogether.Most of these people are not even aware that there have been significant changes to the bullet.

The second issue is that Nosler did not make uniform changes across the ballistic tip line.They modified certain weights and calibers,to meet certain market demands,but left some calibers and bullet weights virtually unchanged.The 7mm-120gr bullet was toughened up because it became common in silhouette shooting,and the shooters found that the original version splattered too much,and didn't always knock the target over.The .308"-180 gr ballistic tip became very popular with people using the 300 magnums,because it was very accurate,and it had a high BC.However,at high velocity it didn't hold together on bone.The Accubond was not yet released,so to satisfy those hunters,Nosler greatly increased the jacket thickness of that particular bullet.The latest versions have extremely thick jackets,and as proven by myself and other hunters,they will break bone at high velocity and still hold together.
Yet the .308"-165gr ballistic tip is still very soft,as are the .277"-130gr ballistic tip and many other ballistic tips.
Unfortunately,the only way to know what each particular ballistic tip is like is to either call Nosler,or section the particular bullet to see just how thick the jacket is.This inconsistency among the various weights and calibers has only served to further confuse shooters.

The end result is that there is a great variance in how ballistic tips perform in different weights and calibers,and at different velocities.These variances have only caused more damage to the negative reputation that the very soft early versions of the ballistic tip fostered.

quote:

Originally posted by Don Slater:

Hey Vapo. These guys are certainly welcome to
use whatever bullet they want on deer. Even the ballistic tip from Nosler. For now, at least, this is still America.

However, I'm willing to wager that the first time they are slightly off on their shot and hit the shoulder bone, that proverbial lightbulb will illuminate the darkness !

Don,
Several years ago I was the biggest booster of ballistic tips. I used them in my .270 and my .25-06 and loved them in my 220 Swift and .223 rifles.

They were (and I assume still are) among the most accurate bullets I've ever shot. Every rifle I shot them in worked great.

They accounted for more DRT deer then one can shake a stick at.....and a few at unbelievable long ranges t boot.

Then one day it happened.....a deer was hit (I thought) quite well, but crawled off only 40 yards into the brush and I couldn't find it.....there was no blood trail at all and the snow was so tracked up with deer tracks I couldn't follow it.

I darn near lost that deer but found it dead in the brush about (as I said) 40 yards from the place it was hit. Had I found that deer immediately I'd probably still be using them....but it taught me the value of the exit hole!

From my discussions with others it soon became clear that two things contribute to exits....bullet weight and the core not shedding the jacket.....so I started using Hornady interlocks and continue to use them today.

I have as of the last few years switched to the bonded premiums.....not that they are needed for deer size animals but that I can shoot a somewhat less heavy bullet and still get the exits and get a slightly better trajectory.

I have no wish to talk anyone out of their B'Tips....they sure worked for me for a long time..... but I'm now using accubonds, interbonds and A-Frames for game larger than deer....and I'll change only on my experience....not someone els's

I suppose my ballistic tip experiences were with the older and softer ones. Blowup upon hitting the shoulder was what turned me off.

And yes, I lost that deer! They worked fine on heart/lung shots, as long as I did not hit bone.

Now I too use accubonds after years and years of exclusively using Hornady interlocks. I must say my only reason for switching to the accubonds have nothing to do with Hornaby quality...I simply like the polycarbonate tips!

I just bought a box of Hornady interbonds for my new 7mm-08. We'll see how these 139 grainers
do on deer sized game.

Even though the economy is poor, I will never believe price dictates the reloading market.
There are many, many quality bullets available
in a great varity of weights and calibers.

To each his own!

quote:

I suppose my ballistic tip experiences were with the older and softer ones. Blowup upon hitting the shoulder was what turned me off.

Many other people had the same experiences,and were just as turned off as you were.
Personally,I think that Nosler should have toughened up the entire ballistic tip line,then renamed the new bullet.
It would have greatly reduced the confusion,and they would have probably not lost so many customers that were put off by the early ballistic tips.
Then again,such a bullet would be competition for the higher priced Accubond.

quote:

Personally,I think that Nosler should have toughened up the entire ballistic tip line,then renamed the new bullet.
It would have greatly reduced the confusion,and they would have probably not lost so many customers that were put off by the early ballistic tips.

or they should have done what Swift did.....name the changed ones the sciriccoII

Had Nosler left the varmint bullets alone....(great bullets BTW) and toughened the hunting line of B'Tips and then named them Ballistic tip (H).....or something to designate a different bullet to clearly signify a different bullet then they'd be far better off.....as it is folks just decided to walk away.

They still to this day confuse the issue with their 168 grain .30 cal....it's been discussed on the reloading forum.... and others as I suggested before....the 125 .30 cal for example.

This is all saddening as a great bullet has been left behind as the bonded bullets slowly prove their value.....and yes....aren't really needed at all.....

This last fall I took two deer with 100 grain ultrabonded Remington corelokts in my .243 and another with a 120 grain Northfork in my 6.5 X 55.....all three superb examples of good bullet performance.....and all three could have been done with Ballistic tips...but the world....at least the world I live in has moved on!

IMO Nosler really blew it here...but those accubonds might take over!

If you shoot enough animals, you will have a bullet not do what you thought it should. How many deer fell DRT but the bullet didnt pass through but you didnt give it a thought because you saw it fall. When you have to track one a ways suddenly that bullets not worth a damn in any caliber.
I have shot groumdhogs with a 25/06 100gr hdys that didnt come out.(go figure) A deer with a 180gr 30/06 in the neck.(????) Saw a 150lb deer shot with a 180gr hdy IB quartering slightly away that stayed in the off shoulder.
All Im trying to say is that we have all had these things happen, at least I have. It does a man good to have a tough tracking job every now and then. You sure can beat youself up for 10 minutes to an hour. Humbles you a mite. Very seldom is it the bullets fault.

I use the 140 Nos BT in my 7mm08 and have never had a whitetail take a step. I use the 150's in my 7 mag. I would have to say that the BT's cause major damage to meat so I avoid shoulder shots unless it's a buck that I don't want to get away. For does it's always a head shot for me. I've stopped using them in my 7 mag because of soooo much damage. The 120's will probably do even more damage but with less recoil. They will dang sure kill, but I like to save as much meat as possible.
One note about penetration, these bullets expend most of their energy in hydrostatic shock and not so much in penetration. My 7mm08 exited about half of the body shots I've taken, but the heart/lungs were jello on all and NO chance of them going anywhere. My 7 mag blows right through them with 150 BT's and never did drop one in its tracks unless it was a head shot. It did almost cut a bobcat in half with only the spine holding the halves together. If I were you I'd go with soft points of some kind unless you don't care about the meat....

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
...I have no wish to talk anyone out of their B'Tips....they sure worked for me for a long time..... but I'm now using accubonds, interbonds and A-Frames for game larger than deer....and I'll change only on my experience....not someone els's

I easily agree with that concept. It does mean the Beginners and Rookies need to pay attention and learn from those who have a bit of experience, or they could easily be mislead.

I also do not understand the reluctance to introduce the tougher B-Tips with some difference in their nomenclature - unless they really haven't changed. But, as the boxes "I got" changed, it seemed as if the Exits increased.
-----

Surely none of this confuses the Beginners?

quote:

Originally posted by Henry Hoover:
... All Im trying to say is that we have all had these things happen, at least I have. It does a man good to have a tough tracking job every now and then. You sure can beat youself up for 10 minutes to an hour. Humbles you a mite. ...

Hey Henry, I understand your concept, but it Humbles me a good bit. I do like an Exit which helps avoid difficult tracking with hopefully two blood trails.

But you are correct, it does not always go as we think it will before the shot.