I finally after 2 years finally got to harvest an animal with it. A couple of days ago I managed a chip shot at 50 yards at a 180# doe.

She would only give me a head shot the whole time coming in so I waited, then she presented a quartering to and I figured she may wind me and take off so I shot. The bullet just missed the front shoulder blade going in and exited just behind the rear rib on the off side, leaving about a 2 inch exit wound, then zipped through a balsam sapling, then into the snow and dirt.

She ran about 30 yards and piled up like a switch was turned off. I went to the impact spot only to find hair, no blood and a mutilated tree. There was not a spec of blood for the entire 30 yards. When I looked at the deer, it appears rumen had filled th exit wound. We hurried up, got her home to clean her up. Everything inside from the esophogus to the rectum was a thick liquid. I was at a loss for words, nobody at the camp had seen something like that before. I don't consider it to be overkill for deer, but everyone else seems to think so. I was using lapua cases, 46grs of H4895, 210gr Swift scirrocco II at 2600 fps.

The bullet held together fine since it zipped through a tree as well, but I can't figure out if the bullet didn't fragment, what made that mess inside? You could not tell which organ was which. We washed her out with rags and the garden hose and made sure all was really clean afterwards. In a sense, I don't mind this result since there will never be a tracking job, but the clean up is disaster.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Thanks,

I shot a blackbear, a few years back, with my 375 AI, we were experiamenting with Sierra 250 GKs. It turned the bear into a big blood sausage.

Congrats! I'd say the bullet did great, at that range, your bullet having the mass/frontal diameter and very good impact velocity is doing that damage from energy, hydrostatic shock, and having gone thru that much animal, before exiting, I am not surprised their was no blood, as at the end of a wound channel, it narrows though one would think the 2" exit would have HAD to allowed some blood splatter at impact site. Had you double lunged broadside, I am confident you would have had a blood trail.

Not to worry, said deer died very quickly and that is what matters, you recovered her w/o tracking. Glad your project/plan came together.

Did you ever get the rifle shooting to your satisfaction, using bullets that fit down in the mag?

Hopefully I can get out this weekend and get my new 338Fed bloodied, good to hear positive results.

Beretta96,

I had a similar thing happen with a mulie doe in MT.

Quartering to shot entrance was inside the near shoulder (right hand side of animal facing me)...bullet struck bone made a hard left and exited out behind left shoulder making a good size exit wound.

This was in snow and the doe went about 40 yds. Not a drop of blood in the snow for 35 yards.

Its things like this that as I get older, I usually use 1 larger caliber then I need and a bullet with a SD above .260 at a moderate velocity and I always go for a double lung shot.

I may have to track some but an animal with both lungs shot is going to die and it is going to either pile up soon or start leaving a blood trail out its mouth and nose that even I can follow.

6.5BR, I'm getting about 1.25" groups at 100 with the Scirrocco II's and 3/4" groups with the 215gr Gamekings. I didn't know if the gamekings would hold together up close so I went the scirrocco route for hunting and gamekings are for target work. Very pleased with it.

My only beef now, I have to bring it to a smith again because I can't chamber a round from the magazine. The lip of the case mouth catches the edge of the barrel. If that makes sense to you. I tried outside chamfering but no avail. I'm not sure if it's the mag spring that would cause that or is the barrel wall too thick. It's as though the round doesn't get pushed in at a high enough angle. I don't think it did that with the TSX bullets but I can't remember.

Once the tweaking is done, I'm going to be very pleased if the performance is always like this.

Thanks again,
Mike

You have to remember that your shooting doe's with a 338 federal not bull moose with a 338 ultra mag. The gamekings should be just about ideal.

Jake

quote:

Has anyone else experienced this?

I had the same gooey mess with a single shot from a 100 grain bonded bullet from a .243.....

I've also seen a .308 150 core lokt make a terrible mess of the insides....looked like an egg beater went at it.....

I field dressed three deer so far this year.....and two of them were easy....one was neck shot and the other a scrub buck I shot in the head at about 200 yards.....

It was the first easy head shot offered me in my entire hunting career.....usually I take the larger target of the rib cage.....but from now on I'm searching for head shots if I can.....sure makes field dressing easier and a whole lot less smelly.

May be interested to know, a guy has been taking wild cattle, broadside with .338fed 185tsx...at about same 40yd distance. Bulls basically near dropped on the spot, tsx curled up under offside hide,
...even more interesting, he used his .260rem 120tsx near 3000mv,...for about the same result.

I experienced the same thing this year shooting my 338/06.(New Load) I have a load of 55 grs. of 160 VihtaVori, Remington 9 1/2 primers, Lupa 06 brass and 185 gr. Accubond bullets.
Shot an nice 8 point with a feild dress weight of 148 lbs.. The buck came around the back side of my stand and at about 60yds he caught me scopeing him as I leaned around the tree. First time I have taken a front chest shot at an animal. Ran about 25 yds. and piled up. When I opened him up about 60% of the organs where no bigger than the size of my thumb. (chunks) I was surprised at how well it worked out. I pretty much just turned him on his belly and let it drain while I went and got the truck. This has turned out to be my best load for accuracy in this rifle and with this kind of damage, I think I have my load for this rifle. Dont know with this new load what a side lung shot will do but I'm going to have to try it!

.

I would say your "destruction test" was a success.

I'm assuming that's why you shot the deer through the ribs instead of the easy head
shot.

Yes, it sounds like an rip-roaring success.

Your load would surely take out anything
that walks on this continent inside of 250 yards.

I always shoot my does in the head to avoid
the mess you describe. But I understand
your "test" and have done the same thing
myself at times.

dxr

.

dxr,
nice sarcasm

beretta96,

I will say good job on the doe! I think you did right on passing on a head shot and went for the vitals. If you hit the guts or near the guts with a HP rifle as yours you will have a mess in the chest cavity. Big deal, you clean it out and know you have killed your game well. I shot a mulie buck with a 25-06 115gr BT on a running quarter away shot. The shot hit his last rib going in and totally destroyed everything in his chest cavity. A big bang flop but a mess in gutting!

Game on the ground is the goal IMO.

John

quote:

Originally posted by doctorxring:
.

I would say your "destruction test" was a success.

I'm assuming that's why you shot the deer through the ribs instead of the easy head
shot.

Yes, it sounds like an rip-roaring success.

Your load would surely take out anything
that walks on this continent inside of 250 yards.

I always shoot my does in the head to avoid
the mess you describe. But I understand
your "test" and have done the same thing
myself at times.

dxr

.

A "test" is NOT what I do on animals, and head shots are the last thing I would contemplate because I'm afraid of getting the jitters and screwing up the shot.

I always aim for heart/lung area and despite the mess, I would absolutely prefer that shot because I know now with my load the switch on the animal will be turned off and no second guess.

My testing is done with wet newsprint or phone books, and that's where it ends, not on live game.

.

I apologize for any testy remarks I made.

No doubt a 215 grain 338 Scirroco at 2600 MV
50 yard impact is gonna tear something up
in a big way. Same as hitting them with a
338 Win Mag at 150 yards. Surely a Jello Maker
on whitetail.

Good shot on your deer. And I admire you for
sticking with your limitations on shooting game,
as all hunters should do. I didn't always head shoot does at short range and surely the day will come for me when age will limit me once
again.

dxr

.

what do you guys call a head shot? I've been told different opinions, like behind the ear, or between the eyes. I'm afraid of those shots because I heard a story of a cow moose shot "in the head" and the lower jaw was blown off and she escaped to die painfully.

Sure I can shoot MOA groups from the bench on a nice day at the range, but in the heat of the hunt can I replicate the same accuracy? I don't know so I opt for the heart/lung shots.

On the last morning of my hunt I saw a fawn at 20 yards and passed on the shot. I figured I'd make a total mess of it and not to mention it was awfully small and I have 2 adult deer already. If one was to use the head shot, where would you place the crosshairs?

thanks again,

.

B96

I'm like you. I will not take a shot I'm not
sure of. I limit head shots to inside of 75 yards
and only if I have a good rest and the animal is
at ease.

Between the eyes or side of the head. I take my
time and use a rifle with a fine trigger.

I've taken most of them with a .223 Remington,
but have also used rifles up to 30-06. I've probably shot over a hundred over the past
35 years.

Sure is nice when it comes time to clean the
buggers.

I would say taking your time is the most important thing on making a precision shot.
And confidence in your rifle.

dxr

.

quote:

Originally posted by beretta96:
what do you guys call a head shot? ...

A Rookie mistake, which will eventually result in wounded Game.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by beretta96:
what do you guys call a head shot? ...

A Rookie mistake, which will eventually result in wounded Game.

ah...well.....er ...this rookie shot his mulie dead between the eyes at about 175 yards this year with his 6.5 X 55.....The buck was hiding in the brush looking straight at me and all I could see was his head and horns.....and I had a perfect (almost benchrest) rest for the rifle.....This is the first real good opportunity I've ever had in my 45 years of hunting deer to take a head shot.....guess what....there was no wasted meat!!!!!

Thanks B96, as to head shots, I have made a few, once at dusk a doe presented broadside at 40 yds, I did not want ANY chance of a tracking job at night and the deer was facing me motionless, so a 105 amax launched from my 6mmBR and dropped it on the spot.

Yet last year, a doe my son shot too far back (he was 10) laid down about 150 yds, I shot too quick and must have pulled it, the lower jaw front half was hit.....it ran and at 200 yds I dumped it with a 130 HotCore from the 7mm BR rifle using a Nikon 4x, hit the dang backstrap but down she went. I hated it happened, but the head was my shot, as the body was in grass and my INTENTIONS were a lights out kill, things don't always work out as planned.

SO, I emulate.....head shots must be selected if and when, but I distinctly remember cleaning my 6BR headshot doe and it was SO much less messy that it makes you think of those head/neck shots when opportunities present.

It takes an accurate rifle, calm/rock steady rest, and a nice smooth squeeze, and a prayer that the deer does NOT move it's head/neck in the process.

Many have 'been there done that' as the deer last minute bobbed it's head and a miss or wound is the result. The miss is not any problem, but to wound one.....that's not fun for me or the animals I respect, so it MUST be a perfect set up, the animal and my shooting position/confidence for me to take a head/neck shot as we never live in an ideal world.

Vapodog, good shot, glad it worked out for you. My son asked me just the other day again about why I say you don't want to headshoot a nice buck, I explained how it might mess up a good mount.....other than that, if it's a clean shot, than what can result in a faster kill? Nothing.

One must make their best judgment in the field as to if/when/how they take shots using shot angle/range, nervous state of the animal-calm-jittery, bullet chose, as well as how the shooter is feeling at the moment, is a good rest at hand, trigger finger steady, etc. etc..

When I had a 338/06 I used 200 ballistic tips at 2900 and 225 partitions at 2670. The partitions I could rely on any angle, dead elk to 400 yds. With the 200, any deer, same range.

Tried 215s at 2790 mv but the core separated at the backstop at 200 yds. On a deer, from a 338F, at 2600 mv, I don't think I'd worry one bit, it will kill just fine and penetrate any deer as much as needed IMHO, but the Swift is a great choice, even if more of a premium construction than needed on smaller game.

As to 'testing bullets/loads' well somebody must do some research in the field and all of us sharing that 'research data' just makes us all more humane at accomplishing a fast kill when we drop the hammer.

I see NOTHING wrong with educated research/tests, which differ IMHO than 'stunts' so I have no qualms. ANY 338 bullet is not a stunt aimed at a deer if you ask me.

As to B96 passing a head shot, have done so myself, not afraid to admit I aim dead center for lung/rib area, some drop DRT others may make it 60 yds, either way, shot margin of error to a vital is there, and if a blood trail is needed, you'll have one....albeit a short one.

Great info by all, enjoyed.

quote:

Originally posted by beretta96:
I finally after 2 years finally got to harvest an animal with it. A couple of days ago I managed a chip shot at 50 yards at a 180# doe.

She would only give me a head shot the whole time coming in so I waited, then she presented a quartering to and I figured she may wind me and take off so I shot. The bullet just missed the front shoulder blade going in and exited just behind the rear rib on the off side, leaving about a 2 inch exit wound, then zipped through a balsam sapling, then into the snow and dirt.

She ran about 30 yards and piled up like a switch was turned off. I went to the impact spot only to find hair, no blood and a mutilated tree. There was not a spec of blood for the entire 30 yards. When I looked at the deer, it appears rumen had filled th exit wound. We hurried up, got her home to clean her up. Everything inside from the esophogus to the rectum was a thick liquid. I was at a loss for words, nobody at the camp had seen something like that before. I don't consider it to be overkill for deer, but everyone else seems to think so. I was using lapua cases, 46grs of H4895, 210gr Swift scirrocco II at 2600 fps.

The bullet held together fine since it zipped through a tree as well, but I can't figure out if the bullet didn't fragment, what made that mess inside? You could not tell which organ was which. We washed her out with rags and the garden hose and made sure all was really clean afterwards. In a sense, I don't mind this result since there will never be a tracking job, but the clean up is disaster.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Thanks,

What made that mess was Hydrostatic (or Hydrodynamic)shock. With terminal ballistics, as the bullet passed through the body cavity and expanded it created a shockwave (AKA Knockdown power) which is very violent. Instead of the bullet pulverizing or breaking apart it held together and mushroomed as intended and designed. The deer is 80 or so percent water throughout its body and you created a 2600 hundred feet per second tsunami through its cavity. Water is a very good conductor of shock waves. Drop a stone in a still pool and watch the ripples go all the way to the sides and then bounce off the sides and come back toward the place the rock was dropped.

While having the desired effect of dispatching the animal you created the effect of doing much destruction and creating yourself a mess. A through the side lung shot would have had less of an impact internally due to the lack of fluid filled tissue affected. The bullet woud have expanded, punched through the lungs or heart and exited the other side, leaving less of a mess.

thanks for the explanation, that makes it more clear, the analogy of the puddle.