Looking at one or the other for a Leopard rifle. CZ550FS and 550 American has both available as does the Savage Euro. Both of these offerings also come with sights which I like. Anyone have opinions of the Savage? Never shot one but here good things about the 114 Euro with the Accu trigger. Back to the cartridges. I guess it boils down to long or short action? Appreciate any and all pros and cons comments. The scope will be a 4.5 X 14 Zeiss in detach mounts most likely. I'll be checking out some illuminated scopes in Reno so may opt for one of those. Thanks

Larry Sellers

It really is a short vs long action issue. For leopard, you might take a look at a lower powered scope, for follow ups. Chances of shooting one so far away that you need more than about 6x are pretty slim.

a savage for 114euro, that's cheaper then a hongkong made rimfire.
any pictures/links?

i would definatly go for the '06
for a woods carbine you can load 220gr over 2400fs.
or lighter bullets at high velocities, if that's what turn your crank

but then again, i'm an .308-hater

my go-to rifle is a SA 308 w/ the 4.5-14x44.
i have taken my longest shots and my shortest shots with. i have killed both bedded and running deer with it.
cats are light skinned and light bones animals. they are not hard to kill just hard to stop.
think of someone throwing a runnning lawn mower at you. chances are if you hit the engin the mower will break down. but are dont you want to stop the blade as well?
i dont know if i would consider either the perfect cat rifle. but for that specific task i think somthing along the lines of a 375 steyr or a 358win/ 35 whelen would be ideal. given that you should be able to shoot the SA rifle better than the LA all else being the same. i would think that would be the most important factor. and that will come down to LOP stock design ect ect.
pick the rifle you shoot best.

id stick w/ a round nose 150 gr. bullet.

I would not carry a rifle with the accutrigger into what might turn out a life threatening situation.Every once in a while mine refuses to operate until I recock it. Now that's after Savage reworked (repaired) it. Oh! a 150gr. bullet from either rifle should dispatch your leopard roger

quote:

Originally posted by f224:
It really is a short vs long action issue.

+1! 100f/s with the lighter 30 calibre bullets does not distinguish one from the other.

Two points here:

1. Savage does not make rifles.....they make junk

2. The SA verses LA is a non issue as the 3/8" longer stroke don't mean squat! So don't let anyone BS you.....properly reloaded the .30-06 will out perform the .308 by a full 200'/sec with 180 grain bullets.

No one is saying the .308 is a poo poo round.....it's just not a 30-06 and will never be! Because energy is proportional to the square of the velocity the 30-06 yields about 20% greater energy.....I believe it's worth noting.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Two points here:

1. Savage does not make rifles.....they make junk

2. The SA verses LA is a non issue as the 3/8" longer stroke don't mean squat! So don't let anyone BS you.....properly reloaded the .30-06 will out perform the .308 by a full 200'/sec with 180 grain bullets.

No one is saying the .308 is a poo poo round.....it's just not a 30-06 and will never be! Because energy is proportional to the square of the velocity the 30-06 yields about 20% greater energy.....I believe it's worth noting.

I agree with you in principle, but I stop short of calling Savage junk. Don't like 'em & don't own one, but I won't call 'em junk, no, junk was the last of the Winchester rifles assembled from the reject parts bin, or the new Kimber with poorly inletted stock sold for $1000. Hells bells, any redneck with a sharp knife could whittle out a better one...

quote:

I agree with you in principle, but I stop short of calling Savage junk.

I've owned three.......never again!

They are popular here and many here would not call them junk....but I will every day!

Accuracy they have.....but they also need to feed....extract.....the safety needs to work and the triggers need to be crisp and clean.....and adjustable.....

I didn't buy any M-70 in the last several years but the worst M-70 I've ever owned was miles ahead of the best Savage I've owned.....I still have a presentation grade M-99 Savage but only because it was my father's .....if it was just a gun it'd have been traded long ago.

Ditto F224: long action 30-06, short action 308. Although I am not a fan of CZ or Savage bolt actions merely for aesthetic purposes, I hear they both shoot well. However, if I had to choose on it would be the CZ with a Leupie 6X. Lou

I sure like my junk Savage rifles. Best factory trigger on the market, easy to swap barrels and out shoot most other rifles right out of the box. Did i say i like Savage rifles? Too each his own but make mine a Savage.

I agree with what Jack O'Connor said about 308/30-06. The beauty of the .308 is the short action thus better adapted to actions other than bolt. If going bolt,no reason to get .308----get the 30-06. Other than bolt go for .308. I gave my grandson a lever action Win mod 88 in .308 and results on deer,hogs,bobcats have been superb. If someone knocks the 30-06 to me a big flashing light on their forehead saying idiot starts flashing--it does it all and the .308 right there with it.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman:
I agree with what Jack O'Connor said about 308/30-06. The beauty of the .308 is the short action thus better adapted to actions other than bolt. If going bolt,no reason to get .308----get the 30-06. Other than bolt go for .308. I gave my grandson a lever action Win mod 88 in .308 and results on deer,hogs,bobcats have been superb. If someone knocks the 30-06 to me a big flashing light on their forehead saying idiot starts flashing--it does it all and the .308 right there with it.

I agree.

I'd only pick .308 over .30-06 if a particular rifle was not available in .30-06 or circumstances worked out that I'd be getting a great deal. If, for example, I wanted a compact rifle and someone had a second hand Model Seven for sale at the right price, then the answer would be clear. But if buying a new rifle with no particular need for it to be marginally shorter/lighter than a regular length gun, then I'd pick the '06 every time.

The leopard won't know the difference. But I would choose the .30-06.

I have both...I like both...the .308 and it's shorter action make scope mounting nicer.

Hey Larry, Any chance you asked about something similar perhaps 8-12months ago?

If so, I can give you some additional insight on the Illuminated Scopes. PM me if you want it.

I like both the 308Win and 30-06 Cartridges. For me, if I planned to use 150gr & 165gr Bullets, I'd go with the 308Win.

If I thought I'd be using the 165gr and 180gr Bullets the most, I'd go with the 30-06.

And if the 180gr and 200gr Bullets fit the needs better, then it would be a 300Mag(about any of the Belted ones).

Best of luck on the Hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by mmaggi:
The leopard won't know the difference. But I would choose the .30-06.

I like the .30-06

Either would kill leopard, but I'd take a 30-06 over the 308 because in the end it is more versatile because it will throw bigger bullets further (not that this is necessary with leopard.)

For leopard, do NOT use a 150gr bullet with either cartridge because it is too frangible. Leopards are prized for the pelts, and you don't want to blow a big hole in your trophy. I'd use a heavy bullet that has controlled expansion to prevent tearing it up.

I don't like scopes over 8 or 9 max power for African hunting (unless you are culling or hunting rock rabbits.) You generally don't need more than 4x, or maybe 6x and high magnification can get you into trouble. I think most people get scope cuts because of crawling up the stock to shoot on high mag.

There is this tendency to turn it up to check something out, and then when you have to shoot, its on the wrong setting. This is one reason many of my rifles carry fixed 4 or six powers and DG rifles have 2.5x or 1-3x variables.

An illuminate scope would be nice with leopard. Kudude

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

They are popular here and many here would not call them junk....but I will every day!

Accuracy they have.....but they also need to feed....extract.....the safety needs to work and the triggers need to be crisp and clean.....and adjustable......

Golleeeee! here I thought I was alone. roger

Because you will also have to shoot bait sometimes as large as Zebra and the like. I would take the 06 with 180 or 200grn bullets.
I would prefer my 9.3 with a 1.5-6x42 although.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kudude:
...For leopard, do NOT use a 150gr bullet with either cartridge because it is too frangible. Leopards are prized for the pelts, and you don't want to blow a big hole in your trophy. I'd use a heavy bullet that has controlled expansion to prevent tearing it up...[QUOTE]

Kudude,
out of interest, does that also apply to bullets like GScustomHV ?
http://gsgroup.co.za/308150HV.html
GscHV will loose it petals at close range/high vel. and exit go through like a fn solid ie; smaller exit than a full mushroomed leadcore.
...not looking for an internet bitch fight, just an education.

quote:

. The SA verses LA is a non issue as the 3/8" longer stroke don't mean squat!

Read Hesketh Pritchard's book on sniping in WWI and you'll not think so.

Like the savage 14 and like the 308. That about says it all. Raise the spring tension on the trigger or lower the spring tension on the sear lock shoe and the false fires will stop on the accutrigger. Short actions aren't just a little lighter, and a little shorter over all rifle length, but also a little easier to mount scopes on without the use of extension rings or bases. If you like longer actions and 30-06's....great....its what makes the world go round....

Dave

I have never hunted leopard but I have hunted cougars and bears. Leopards are about the same size of a cougars. I have hunted cougars with a 30-30, a 30-06 and a 44 Mag. Big cats are normally hunted at fairly close ranges. Yes you can kill a leopard with any a well placed bullet for a .308 or a 30-06 but IMO a big bore with large slow bullets work better than smaller faster bullets.
A CZ550 FS 9.3x62 should work very well.

ColeK - Funny you would mention the CZ550FS in 9.3 X 62. I have this exact combination and it shoots really well. It's topped with a 1.75 X 6 Leupold, heavy duplex. This rifle is going along on the trip but was looking at it more for Eland, Zebra possibly Buff. The .308 or 30-06 would be for the cat only unless of course something else popped up. The cat rifle would have a scope with a better light transmission factor or illuminated reticle. I always take two rifles or two different scopes for the same rifle for backup purposes. Another CZ 550FS in "06" with a lighted reticle scope would seem to fill the need?? Thoughts on lighted reticle glass would also be appreciated. Thanks everyone for all the feedback so far.

Larry Sellers

quote:

Originally posted by ColeK:
I have never hunted leopard but I have hunted cougars and bears. Leopards are about the same size of a cougars. I have hunted cougars with a 30-30, a 30-06 and a 44 Mag. Big cats are normally hunted at fairly close ranges. Yes you can kill a leopard with any a well placed bullet for a .308 or a 30-06 but IMO a big bore with large slow bullets work better than smaller faster bullets.
A CZ550 FS 9.3x62 should work very well.

I would take the 30-06 any day.....I consider the length a short vs. standard/medium length as well....Heavier bullet options are important to me.

Savage rifles have their fans, and I keep wanting to get one for the ease of swapping out barrels. They are quite accurate for one of my friends...

Unfortunately, whenever I pick one up I can't warm up to them--action and trigger always seem too cheaply made.

In the end we buy what we want to own, and can be happy for the choices.

Cheers,

Dan

I wanted a .308 bolt rifle and was fundamentally broke. Have several military semis and really like the chambering.

Found a 110 w accutrigger new for cheap. Plastic stock was junk. Too flexible. I could not get the darn thing to shoot. Friend at Douglas bore scoped the thing to find that the "new" barrel was a mess.

Replaced the plastic parts with metal. Replaced the barrel with a Douglas tube. Replaced the stock with a Brownell's synthetic having an aluminum frame. Adjusted the firing pin exposure to assure consistent ignition.

Rifle now shoots like a banshee. Does very well with 168 gr HPBT MKs and 165 gr CoreLokts. An interesting project, but NOT cheap. Obviously not worth what I have in it.