I don't own a short magnum now but one day I may, so the competition between Remington and Winchester has me very interested.

As I look at the potential for each round, I can't help but think that the WSM is doomed due to a fatal design flaw...(to my understanding)it's too long to work with the Reminton Model 7 action. If the WSM were to win out, that would mean that the Rem Model 7 would be stuck with only standard catridges in it's line up. What are the odds of that????

If the Remington SAUMs win out, they can be chambered in the Remington Model 7, along with all the Winchester, Browning, and Ruger short actions. It seems to me that this would give the SAUMs an edge in this competition.

I personally like the WSM and hope it lives on. However, I would think the best strategy for Winchester would be to scrap the WSM and just start to chamber their guns for the SAUM so they could get in on the ammo action for the Remington Model 7. In addition, if I were Winchester, I would make the SAUM in 25, 26, and 27 cal right now to create more sales. Performance-wise there's really no need for both lines anyway.

What are your thoughts???

When has good sense or practically been a driving force with the firearms industry. Examples are everywhere...Winchester and the .243 while Remington did the .244 (6mm)...Winchester did the .270 and Remington the .280 (big difference).

I think those who like Remington will go with the SAUM and those who like Winchester will go with the WSM...there is, I believe, a lot of "brand" loyalty.

When I think of hunting rifles the Remington short actions don't even come to mind. I would not bother to pick one up at a store even to look at it.

Also the Remington SAUM line looks dull as compared to the WSM's however what sells is what counts.

I read some excitement on the net over .270 WSM's and earlier the .300 WSM's and I think some 7mm WSM's are available now. I have not read of anyone posting anything about their SAUM.

If anyone knows a distributor well it would be interesting to find out how many of each caliber has been sold.

Trying to magnumize a short action carbine is just a plumb stupid concept . These cartridges are gong to need at least 22 inches of barrel to even come close to their advertizing . Winchester has it right by putting 24 inch barrels on their WSM s .

SD, I agree with you completely... Olin designed the 300 WSM to work in barrels from 22-24". I've proved to myslef it's so. I shot, chrono'd, handloaded for and took a mulie buck with my 300 WSM with its factory-length 24" barrel... I then cut it to 22". It works fine at that length. I still get 2,925(+) with 180's. The 300 WSM's bore-volume/case capacity is nearly identical to the 280 Rem... most would argue the 280 works fine in a 22" barrel... at least my 280 did! The smaller WSM's (270, 7mm and what-may-come) will really need the longer 24" tube in order to maximize their potential. As I like 22" bbl's., I'll stick with the plain-jane 270 Win circa 1925. The Rem M7 in the 300 SAUM wears a 22" bbl., and is ideal imo.

I'll add, muzzle blast and noise of the 300 WSM in the 22" bbl. is less than my 22" bbl'd 270 Win.

As an aside, several years ago when the rumors of the WSM started to surface, I struck up a correspondence with a gent at USRAC who was in a position to influence the design of the 70's to handle this cartridge. He informed me they were going to chamber it with 24" bbl's in the "blued" versions and a 22" bbl., in the stainless models... I e-mailed him back I thought that would be a mistake as most would want the longer tube and, as it's easier to cut a barrel than "grow" 2" back on, those of us who wanted the shorter bbl. could take matter's into our own hands. Apparently enough folks at USRAC thought the same as he told me a few weeks later they'd decided to go with the 24" tube... probably the "ideal" length in the 300 WSM is 23" like the Browning.

BA

Well, if retail sales mean anything. I have sold the Win. Short Mag. and can not recall anyone even asking price of the RUSM.
I think I will ride with the horse and rider on this one. Adios Remington!

I don't have any personal experience with the cartridge but I've seen a few people asking for the WSM at the gun shows. The 300WSM seems to be in popular demand these days. Just MHO but I think it's going to be around for awhile.
Terry

Just from plain marketing appeal, saying "300 WSM" flows off the lips much easier than saying "300 SAUM".

That and its slight edge in ballistics gives the nod (once again) to Winchester...

This cartridge will give wildcatters something to play with for a while, too - everything from 6mm to 375 looks game...personally, I'd like to try the 8mm and the 9.3mm bullets on that cartridge...if anything, just to play

TXLoader

[ 07-12-2002, 02:00: Message edited by: TXLoader ]

I would say the jury is still out, or the fat lady has not sung yet.

But there are a couple of factors to consider. Remington has a poor track record of market success with designs that they do internally, and a corresponding good record when they adopt an already successful wildcat.

Second,rebated rim cases don't have a good record of feeding well.

I have seen some Ultra Mags on local gun store shelves, but no Short Action Ultra Mags. There seems to be a good supply of .300 WSMs too.

jim dodd

I am beginning to see a number of Ultra Mags and WSM rifles turning up used in my neck of the woods. Perhaps they are not the cure-all that the manufacturers claim. I hope the WSM and UltraMags quietly go away. There are only so many ways one can re-invent the magnum.

ZM

Zeke,
I don't own one and I don't have need of one but I hope all the WSM's make it.
What is wrong with having many cartridges to choose from? Maybe some of us don't care for your favorite...what ever it is!

[ 07-14-2002, 08:49: Message edited by: Harry ]

I'm gonna bet the WSMs win out over the RUSMs.

Man! Does anyone really think that Winchester-Browning give a rats-tail wether the WSM would fit in a Rem 7? I think not! All the better if it wouldn't, more guns sales for them! The WSM, in my opinion fills a greatly needed niche, and some needed competition for remington. Only time will tell if remington can handle the competition, because I don't thing the WSM is doomed in any way, shape, or form. it is only going to be developed into even more intresting cartridges like 6mm, 6.5mm, or .25 any of these would just about set the air on fire.
Of coarse this just my opinion

My puchasing a .300 WSM probably isn't the deciding factor, but I believe Winchester just stole the show and Remington is trying to play catch-up.

Winchester did a great job of presentation and deciding to come with a .300, then a .270 and 7mm was genius. I think Remington should get ready to fold their tent on the SAUMs and start chambering the Winchester rounds.

In my neck of the woods guys are still hot for bigger is better and the Ultra mags are the hot magnum out. But for the shorter ones guys seem to be looking at the WSM not the SAUM. Also most guys around here want a full sized rifle not a girlish model seven. No offense to the guys who carry them! No need to worry about weight in this neck of the woods. Most of us don't have that far to pack the thing. My vote is for the WSM and I hope the .257 is comes soon

Ok Now can someone please tell me why Winchester is making the short mags with a 24" barrel and Browning is making them with a 23" barrel? How does this make sense. They are both made by USRAC right? 2nd question do you think that the 270 WSM can reach it's potential in a 23 inch barrel? See I like the Browning stock more because of the palm swell but I think the caliber needs a 24" barrel, Am I crazy or will it really matter? Thanks Guys

I don't know why someone always has to dog the Model 7 as a "girlie rifle"!!! I'm 6'2" 265lbs and I work out 3 times a week. I own two Model 7's, a short barreled Model 788, and a Model 700 Mountain Rifle. Where I hunt is heap steep and the handiness of a light-weight rifle is much appreciated. That being said, I don't care one way or another about the current crop of short magnums but as soon as either Remchester or Winnington comes out with a 338 short action magnum in a light weight package like a Model 7 or a Model 70 Carbine with a 22 inch tube I'm going right down and buy one immediately!!!

I'll second Super88's thoughts on that one! Why have short and hot when you can have BIG and short and hot! I'm 6'2" myself, and skinny as a rail... short and light rifles are a godsend for long carries.

I own several model sevens 17Rem, 223, 6mm, and a switch barrel XP-R that goes from MKIV 243,260,7-08, 308. I have ordered a new 7mm RSUM just for the bolt face, I really think there will be a new revolution in wild cats built on this case if so here comes another switch barrel