Are there any 7X61 shooters out there? I was looking through an old Hornady book yesterday and saw it listed. To me that looked like a really well designed case with what I would consider perfect magnum capacity.. Im guessing brass could be easily made with 7mm Rem brass??

quote:

Are there any 7X61 shooters out there? I was looking through an old Hornady book yesterday and saw it listed. To me that looked like a really well designed case with what I would consider perfect magnum capacity.. Im guessing brass could be easily made with 7mm Rem brass??

When I was designing my 280PDK wildcat I plotted up velocity vs capacity looking for the point where larger capacity started giving slightly smaller returns. That ended up being right at 76-77grs of water capacity. The 7x61 falls right at that point.

That said the 7mag will always give you higher velocity the 7X61 is a little more efficent. If you want something different go for it. But it can't really give you anything the 7mag can't.

Yes you could make brass from the 7mag.

I have one, that a friend restocked for me...I like it a lot, been fun to shoot!

Wehere from brass?
How is it power-wise compared to the 7mm Rem.mag and .280 Rem/7x64 Brenneke?

Were there actually any other rifles so chambered other than the Schultz & Larsen and whatsitcalled the custom rifle company in New York?

- Lars/Finland

Great cartridge and efficient for powder burned and velocity achieved but does no more than the 7mmRM or WM. Had an advantage over the 7mmRM which never came out in early years with the classic 160grainer at 3000fps. Norma who produced and sometimes still produces 7x61 ammo loaded a good steel jacketed spitzer bullet at just over 3000fps in the 7x61.

For some reason even Norma loaded the RM with 150grainers and the WM with Hornady 154grainers. They did at one stage do a loading of 160gr Noslers for the 7x61 and 7mmWM.

In corresponding with Hornady once I was told that Joyce H. shot a record book moose using a 7x61.

The 7x61 cartridge in a Schultz and Larsen rear locking bolt rifle was an exceptionally strong, smooth, accurate, and hard hitting combination. Apart from being on the heavy side I found this combination without peer for long range big game shooting (used two of them for many years).

I have one in a Browning/FN commercial 98. I really like it. I have numerous other 7's, but this one seems the best balanced. - dan

I still use my old Shultz & Larsen 7x61. Mine has a 1in 12 in twist and doesn't handle the heavy bullets real well.However it puts 140 gr TSX bullets into an inch at 200 yds. I have a set of forming dies and it is quite simple to form cases from 7mm Rem. Shortly after getting the forming dies I picked up about 10 boxes of new brass at a gun show so the forming dies don't do much work. Very little difference in performance between the 7x61, 7mm Rem or the 7mm Wby even though the Rem & Wby burn 7 to 10 grs more powder. Case capacity of the 7x61 is almost identical to the 7mm WSM.

I'm just about to buy a Shultz & Larsen Mod-60 in 7x61 Sharpe & Hart ,just because I want it ....according to what I have read on the web the 7x61 "Super" was designed by Norma to hold 5 more grains of powder ,for a bigger bang,otherwise the cartridges are the same.....

I have 2 7mm Rem Mags,which shoot very well ....but the S&L is a just because rifle.

BB34

You are correct Bigbird re the older "S&H" headstamped ammo being the same as the "Super" except there was only about 1.5grs more powder used to lift the MV to 3150fps. Bit of a hard ask to hollow out the case around the web area as it was and get another 5 grains of powder.

The problem we found when the change to Super was made was that despite the 160gr bullet being identical on the outside to look at as was used in the S&H loading it had a harder lead in the core which just did not perform anywhere near the older projectile in our red deer. The bullet did not expand properly unless bone was hit and resulted in a few lost deer for my father who was using the 7x61 at the time. He purchased the last remaining stock oF older S&H ammo he could get in NZ and we were back to knocking over deer again.

The later Super was loaded with 150gr bullets but i only ever reloaded for my 7x61s using the 160gr Sierra SBT. This was devastating on all game at MV 3000fps.

Why not build yourself a 280 Ackley improved and you will have a rifle that competes with the 7 mag and no belt on the case?

quote:

Originally posted by Bigbird34:
according to what I have read on the web the 7x61 "Super" was designed by Norma to hold 5 more grains of powder ,for a bigger bang,otherwise the cartridges are the same.....

I have 2 7mm Rem Mags,which shoot very well ....but the S&L is a just because rifle.

BB34

Don't beleive everything you read on the web until you have had the opportunity to either try it yourself, or to research it well.

Over the years I have owned at least four, and maybe as many as six, S&L sporters in 7x61 S&H. During those years, I have used a lot of both the original 7x61 Norma brass and the Norma "Super". 7x61 brass. Having used that particular chambering since very soon after it was first announced until the late 1970s, I will assure you it was NOT changed in an effort to increase the ballistics (or case capacity) of the cartridge.

It WAS done to reduce problems of case head separations occuring just in front of the web when the original brass was used with full pressure loads in rear locking lugged actions such as the S&L rifles.

The U.S. NRA reported at the time that Norma acomplished that by both thinning the brass and making it harder in temper, thus increasing its ability to spring back to its original shape & dimensions after firing. IIRC, there is still a "sidebar" somewhere in the NRA "Handloader's Guide" repeating that assertion.

That also explains why it does hold maybe 1.5 grains more of some powders, but no where near 5 grains more of any of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

It WAS done to reduce problems of case head separations occuring just in front of the web when the original brass was used with full pressure loads in rear locking lugged actions such as the S&L rifles.

That also explains why it does hold maybe 1.5 grains more of some powders, but no where near 5 grains more of any of them.

Alberta, that may well have been what was asserted in the USA but I recall what Norma published in their catalogs at the time of the introduction of the "Super" 7x61 ammunition. I no longer have these catalogs but remember they did make the play of increased case capacity for more velocity and down range performance. They included photos of Lions in the advertising for the new 7x61 Super ammo so seemed to be promoting this enhanced ammo for use in Africa. I sectioned pulled bullets from both the S&H and the Super factory loads (still have these) and it seemed very obvious from the colour and feel of the lead cores that the Supers contained a harder lead, again probably to ensure better performance on African game. The S&H core is a dark grey lead colour and the Super core is a shiny tin colour. Both 160gr SPBT bullets externally are identical with their nickel coloured Tombac guilding metal jackets.

I do believe that at the time Norma faced increased competition from the 7mm Rem and Weatherby Magnums and with African hunting becoming popular again they were trying to hold market share with their proprietary cartridge.

Personally in reloading for my two 7x61s I used extensively, I found the S&H cases actually lasted longer than the Super cases before incipient case head separation started to show and I got relatively good life from my cases but did size to the shoulder not the belt.

I still have their catalogues from that time, and will look in them when I have the chance. That will undoubtedly be a few weeks though, as I can't even get into my shop right now because of the 50 or 60 large cardboard boxes full of ammo components and other rifle related gear in there on the floor.

The tradesman who had promised me faithfully to get started on making cabinets for all that muck hasn't called or showed up. (No wonder we are in a recession. It appears no one actually wants to do what they promise, or perform actual work for money anymore. Seems most would rather just let the "government" - AKA the rest of us - support them.)

Anyway, in my 7x61s, I found the "super" brass performed much better, in terms of length of reloadable life, than did the original stuff. But then, experiences do vary, there's no doubt about it.

No doubt about it the 7x61 S&H is a fine cartridge.
However, if you want to use something really different find a .276 Dubiel Mag. I get 2900+ with 160's @ 12', 24" barrel. (75.3 gr water in a sized case made from Weatherby 7mm Rem Mag.y brass), Norma MRP powder has been the best for accurcy and velocity. I am still using some of the original cases made from Western .275 H&H brass from back in the 1930's when they loaded it. They are all great cartridges!

Well Gentlemen,I now own a S&L Model 60 in 7x61S&H ,I have fired the rifle and just enjoy owning it ....bragging rights I guess ,I put a Leupold Vari-X 3,4.5x14 50mm scope on it ,but did not shoot the best group ,I thought I should be able to....so now I'm looking for some good load data,for 140 grain or LESS bullets as this rifle has a 1:12 twist.....

Thank-you

BB

For what I paid for this rifle ,I could have bought some other "Newer" rifles,but these S&L's have a great story,and I won't probably come across another one here in Vermont in a long time....

quote:

Originally posted by Bigbird34:
Well Gentlemen,I now own a S&L Model 60 in 7x61S&H ,I have fired the rifle and just enjoy owning it ....bragging rights I guess ,I put a Leupold Vari-X 3,4.5x14 50mm scope on it ,but did not shoot the best group ,I thought I should be able to....so now I'm looking for some good load data,for 140 grain or LESS bullets as this rifle has a 1:12 twist.....

Thank-you

BB

For what I paid for this rifle ,I could have bought some other "Newer" rifles,but these S&L's have a great story,and I won't probably come across another one here in Vermont in a long time....

My load, and only load, I settled on in my M60 was 59.0grs IMR4831 and the Sierra 160gr Gameking SBT bullet for 3000fps. The 1:12 twist stabilises these long bullets perfectly with fantastic accuracy. You don't load these magnums with light bullets, well you can if you want to but whats the point, a 7x57 or 7mm-08 will do just as well with a 140gr but they won't hold a match to the magnums with 160gr bullets at 3000fps.

You've every right to brag, this is a fantastic cartridge in a fantastically smooth, strong and accurate rifle. Many an animal met its maker from my M60. Hugely regret trading mine now on a 7mm-08 for my sons to use although happy of course for them to get good use from the smaller 7mm.

Hey, i just put up 6 new boxes of Norma 7x61 brass in the classifieds at 1/2 price.