The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Why do so many dislike detachable magazines?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| one of us |
My first rifle that had a DM. Was a Mannlicher Model M Pro. that I bought in 1976. It was and is not a bad way to go. A Sako 75 in 338 came my way back a few years ago. I like the DM on that rifle. Makes for ease of unloading when my hands are froze. Other than a Browning BLR in 358 they are the only three such rifles I own. I use to say hell no, but since I been hunt with the sako, I have some what changed my mind about it some what. I still like good bottom metal on a rifle. | |||
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| one of us |
If you can't even keep track of a magazine how can you keep track of your,gun,license,knife or vehicle keys.If you have a memory disorder don't use them otherwise enjoy the convenience. | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Right on. ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| one of us |
I have not use for DM, I saw one fall out once in a hunting experience..It was comical as all get out...but wouldn't be if a Cape Buff was comming my way... I lost the magazine on my 222 Sako once and took me a couple of years to find another.. No thanks, I'll take my rifles in one piece but I have no problem with anybody useing them if they like'em.... | |||
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| one of us |
DB MAG guns I have for hunting- BLR in .358 BAR in 30-06 FN SPR in .308( din't say WHAT kind of hunting) Sako 995 in .340Wby 788 in .223 THey work, no problems and I have spares that I carry for reloading. Never lost one. when considering a firearm purchase whether DB or built in mag, is not a real consideration one way or another. | |||
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| <Fuzz> |
I had a BAR in 300wn mag. You had to use 2 hands to remove the magazine and 2 hands to install it. Not very fast. Fuzz | ||
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| one of us |
Big country-I have a kreiger barrel on one 7mmstw but my 300ultra's have pac-nors.I load my rounds to 3.665" for the ultras.I load my 7mmstw's to 3.660" for both the floorplate model and detatchable mag model because both are the same length internally, contrary to your statement.One of the reasons I only use 700 actions is that they have longer magazines than many other actions. | |||
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| one of us |
Fuzz-My findings with the browning detatchable mag are the same as yours.I find them slow and awkward.The factory remington 700 design however is simple,fast and the magazine can't fall out because it has two releases that are easily actuated by one hand but virtually impossible to activate accidently.The remington magazines used on the semi autos and pumps however are poorly designed and fragile. [ 05-16-2003, 21:56: Message edited by: stubblejumper ] | |||
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| one of us |
I dont think it makes a bit of a difference either way. I own all three types, DM, blind, and bottom plate. The only thing I will say is that a DM is great to have in a high volume culling situation. A couple of spare mags go a long way in that type of shooting. Other than that, it is just personal preference. | |||
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one of us |
Some of the commercial detachables are POS. Remingtons for pumps and autos for example. Easily damaged, hard to take apart to clean, and just about impossible to remove with gloved hands. Same for the mag release on the blr, and rugers rotary mags gloves have to come off. Rugers rotary is dirt sensitive too, if you carry a spare, you'd best have clean pockets. | |||
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| <bigcountry> |
Thanks Stubble, but have you ever measured your throat with a stoney point type device? I am trying to find out what the average freebore is. As far as the DM thing is concerned. Ok, your DM maybe, what I am saying is on average, what I see. Like for instance, the browning Medallions. My 308Win Max SAMMI length is 2.8", but with my Medallion, max I can load is 2.770", and for my friends FN SPr, the detachable mag you can load only to 2.750" but with the floorplate you can load longer to 2.82". Since I refuse to buy remington again, I wouldn't and never will know. | ||
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| one of us |
I feel strongly both ways about DM's. ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| one of us |
big country-I don't use any type of guage to measure my distance from the lands.I use the actual bullet in a fired case that has been slightly crimped so it holds the bullet but lets it be pushed into the case when you close the bolt.I then measure the length of the resulting cartridge and know at what length it will contact the rifling.Since there is so much variation between bullets I find this method to be as accurate as any and no tools other than a caliper are required.As far as remington is concerned I only use their actions.Even then the triggers are changed out or reworked and the locking bolt is swapped out for the older non-locking parts.The action is also trued and the lugs are lapped.When you add a mcmillan stock and match grade barrel my rifles are built to much higher standards than any factory rifle. | |||
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| <bigcountry> |
I agree stubble. That rifle I am talking about with the krieger barrel is a remington 700 I had rebarreled. I recently became a huge fan of the winchester 70 actions. Thanks for the info. What I was trying to get at, was my gunsmith correct in saying he couldn't get throat any closer without some modifications or speically ordering a reamer. He said he might be able to just ream out the headspace next time, and then order a special reamer just to ream out the throat to cater to what I want. Which is what I told him I wanted over 7 months ago. Just kinda disappointed. But the rifle shoots well anyway. | ||
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| one of us |
Big country-The reamer does determine the amount of freebore in the chamber.I had my own 7mmstw reamer made but the 300 ultra reamer is owned by my gunsmith.I also had a 257wby reamer made so that I could chamber my new 257wby barrel without the freebore that comes from the factory.When ordering a reamer you can choose your own dimensions but unless you know exactly what bullet you intend to use you may still not get the clearance to the lands without a lot of change in overall length of cartridge.The magazine length can then be your limiting factor.My own reamers are cut to smaller dimensions than the standard reamers that most people use in order to center the round more precisely in the chamber and to minimize expansion of the brass upon firing.This results both in optimum accuracy and case life. | |||
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| one of us |
Why do so many dislike detachable magazines? Simple - they detach! Anyone who has had to scrabble around in sand looking for the @#$ thing and then had to spend hunting time cleaning out all the dust from inside the pesky thing will know that. Only thing worse is having a sympathetic K98 floorplate discharge. You fire and there's this golden tinkling flood off your guts. Your first reaction is "the gun has failed - where's the blood?" Then a few more unprintable thoughts and more grovelling and cleaning of cartridges. Duct tape - now why didn't think of that :-) Yes - I know - both were my fault for not double checking for positive engagement. I do that religiously now, every time - and frequently during the day too. Cheers edi | |||
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| one of us |
A detachable mag is great. I have some rifles with them, some without. I prefer "with" Never lost a clip so far in over 20 years......... never needed a second one,....so swapping clips is not a problem......christ, If I can't kill it with the first 4 shots, swapping clips won't help. To each their own. My hunting style is dictated somewhat by the type of terrain I hunt in, and I find a clip is nice, as I may be loading and unloading the rifle 10 or 12 times per day -------a real pain if you don't have a clip. | |||
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| one of us |
And as far as Remington auto/pump clips being fragile, junk, or whatever else....I haven't had a problem with mine in the almost 20 years I've owned the pump........... | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Do not blame the rifle for operator errors. Cheers | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Clips are used to fill magazines. Magazines hold the ammo. The old Gunnery Sergeant would have your ass for confusing the two. [ 05-17-2003, 21:31: Message edited by: Orion 1 ] | |||
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| one of us |
Regional lingo I guess.....and in my region, they are clips. In the rural areas I was born/raised and live in, only city slickers and armchair experts refer to them as magazines. If the Gunnery Sargeant tried chewing someone's ass out for calling them clips, he'd likely get a couple teeth knocked out. I guess it's like semi-automatic rifles. No one here calls them auto-loaders, or "automatics". They are called "semis". [ 05-18-2003, 00:13: Message edited by: Johnny Ringo ] | |||
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| one of us |
Hi Orion, Agreed - but good design would help too. Twice in near on 52 years is exactly twice too many times. cheers edi | |||
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| one of us |
clips are most important for road hunters and horseback. plain and simple. otherwise the rifle stays loaded for the whole hunt. and a detachable mag makes as much sense as a detachable dick. dont need two, but definitely do need one!! I like mine attached or it would get lost somewhere. opinions, of course. [ 05-18-2003, 10:13: Message edited by: Jameister ] | |||
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| one of us |
jameister-I don't know about your hunts but when we hunt at the ranch we have a rule about no loaded guns in the cabin so the guns do not stay loaded for the whole hunt.On some hunts we stay in motels every night(not allowed to stay overnight in the military camp) so again the guns don't stay loaded for the entire hunt.We do travel from hunting area to hunting area during the course of a hunt, so we unload our guns before getting into the vehicle.And yes we use horses often.As for losing things how do you manage to keep from losing your knife,wallet, licences,spare ammo etc?Do you still use the mittens tied together by a string? | |||
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| one of us |
There's enough stuff to keep track of already, not sure there's much of an advantage to a detachable magazine. I have them for the Mini-14 and the 513T, only detach them for loading anyway so they doesn't get separated from the rifles. Tom | |||
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| one of us |
quote:You in the country can call them whatever you want. For Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, they are magazines. Bet some of us city slickers can also outshoot most country boys. | |||
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| one of us |
Maybe some can. On average, most can't. What Gunny says holds no water here. [ 05-18-2003, 18:27: Message edited by: Johnny Ringo ] | |||
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| one of us |
Jameister, Really?? Clips are only for road hunters and horseback???? You need to expand your horizons a bit. [ 05-18-2003, 10:19: Message edited by: Johnny Ringo ] | |||
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| one of us |
I prefer a hinged floorplate for a bolt action hunting rifle. The exception is the SMLE which is of course, a military rifle. I like the floorplate because I like them, but there are some points to discuss... A DM must meet certain criteria if I was to use one... 1) It must be able to be single loaded through the top of the action. 2) It can't be easily bumped out, knocked out,or drop out under recoil. Floorplates must do the same. The SMLE has a big, but tight lever that I've never been able to 'bump' out. 3)It has to be able to hold cartridges that with bullets seated out to a resonable length, the same as a floorplate. 4) It can't get lost. 5) In the event of a jam, the magazine must be able to be removed and jam resolved with the same ease of a floorplate. Comparing military and defensive pistols to bolt action hunting rifles is apples and oranges. A soldier/cop will carry several clips/mags with them all the time, so if one is lost or dropped, another can be inserted quickly. With a jam, a floorplate is opened, the cartridges dumped on the ground, and the offending cartridge pulled out. Then the floorplate is snapped shut and reloaded. Can a DM do this if the cartridge is hung up partially inside the rim of the mag? I don't know because I don't use them that often, but it would seem like a valid point to me. Losing or damaging them is a very real problem. I never have left ammo at home when going hunting, and I usually don't lose stuff. BUT, if I lose the rest of my bits and pieces, I'll be able to figure something out. I can borrow a knife or use my Leatherman. If I forget my flashlight, I'll light a candle. If I lose my car key I'll break the window and use the spare inside. If I can't use my rifle properly, what's the point of going hunting? I suppose I could add an extra mag to the gear, but if it is not necessary, why bother to pay for it and carry it? | |||
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| one of us |
Whichever one you prefer is fine. You're not apt to have to reload your magazine or change clips while firing at an animal anyway so why all this nitpicking? Sometimes it appears we thrive on it. If you can live with what you have, so be it. Actually I shouldn't even be in this. Most of my shooting is from the bench and single shot is preferred. Now watch some yahoo pop us and tell me why I should be using a clip or have an internal magazine. Please, lets move on. Best wishes. Cal - Montreal | |||
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| one of us |
I gotta tell you guys, I reely enjoyed this thread. Good thing there aren't too many opinionated people here! Hee, Hee! Well, my personal preference is to the non-detachable. Blind, or floorplate really makes me no big difference. Floorplate is more convienent. I think detachables are something else to loose, make noise, and be UG LEE! And yes, I've lost car keys, wallets, knives, and binoculars. Lots of other stuff too! Sometimes I even found 'em later! That said, I have no problem with the Colt/AR mags (it's a military application, f'Christ's sake, it ain't SUPPOSED to be purty)Ruger's rimfire mags(they fit flush), nor with the Browning mags, that hide under a floorplate (well, they're detachable). But, still, ain't it great we can all cater to our personal tastes?,,,,,,,,,Bug. | |||
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| one of us |
Ok, the way I read this whole thing is IF you are of genious IQ and so perfect that you have never lost a clip, magazine, car keys, house keys, pencils, pens, or any other small object as some so claim then the DM's are a perfectly fitted to your superior being, and you should be using them, so thats OK for you... BUT, if your just an average hunter, an average old American boy, dumber than a box of rocks then you don't need a clip or DM to get lost with the keys etc. You are better off with a good Mauser 98 or M-70 type action...cuz you'lll loose your clips... But, all you dumb a$$es out there need not despair, just be patient and sooner or later the Brilliant ones will join our ranks, as they get smarter and older and have had enough time in the hunting fields to lose a clip or DM, all that will certainly come with time and experience, and their ranks will dwindle as fast as the sales on DM guns have... Now I'm not offering an opinnion, thats just the way I read this thread and it makes since to me but who knows | |||
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| <AppleFarmer> |
I'm a Detachable magazine kind of guy . Have both but really like the safety aspect of the detachable and the speed to load a fresh mag. | ||
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| one of us |
I just love them DM's. I wish more people would buy them. I don't sell too many floorplates but the DM's are bread and butter for my business! | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Why do so many dislike detachable magazines?
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