Hi,

I am purchasing a rifle to replace my .270 Win. and will be using it for all big game purposes from deer to elk and moose. I have decided on the .300 WSM caliber and am having trouble deciding between the Browning A-Bolt II Mossy Oak Stainless:

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detai...t_id=035&type_id=151

OR the Weatherby Vanguard Sub-MOA Stainless:

http://www.weatherby.com/products/guns.asp?prd=Rifles&p...prod_code=VSM243NR4O

My current .270 is an A-Bolt and I really like the 60 deg. bolt. Will the 90 deg. bolt of the Weatherby produce any problems? I will be mounting a VX-II 3-9 on it in Burris Zee Ring low mounts.

Any experience how the triggers compare between the 2 rifles?

God Bless,

Corey

I would take the Vanguard.........IMO a much superior action design compared to the A bolt and I'd think the stock on the Sub-MOA would be quite an improvement over the Browning tupperware........

Nothing wrong with either but if the choice were mine, I'd opt for the A-bolt. The short bolt throw on the Browing is the final deciding factor for me, and they are both very accurate rifles.

Thanks for your replies guys. I really appreciate it.

Upon further research into these 2 guns I am leaning towards the Vanguard. The 2 main reasons are because of the stock and the weight of the gun. The Sub-MOA has a Bell/Carlson Fibreguard stock on it and a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad which is a big difference in stocks. Also the Vanguard weighs 7 pounds 12 ounces where as the A-Bolt weighs 6 pounds 6 ounces. I already shoot a .270 Win. A Bolt that weighs 6 pounds 11 ounces and that gun has some snap to it. I really would not look forward to shooting the Browning in a lighter gun and in a magnum.

The only thing I like better on the A Bolt is the 60 deg bolt but other than that, the Weatherby appears to be a superior rifle for my needs.

God Bless,

Corey

Short bolt throw is great when the bolt handle ends up in your hand when it breaks. The A-Bolt will also be useless if any kind of crud gets in its mechanisms. Get the Vanguard and stay away from the poor design of and the pot metal used in the A-Bolt.

quote:

I would take the Vanguard

No contest there, the Vanguard without reservations. The Howa actions is one of the best out there, simple and rugged whereas the A Bolt's bolt is a collage of "Rube Goldberg" parts that IS impossible to field strip in the field. Both are very accurate, but I just can't see past that browning bolt design. jorge

Go with the Vanguard. Excellent rifle.

Now, isn't this interesting!
I've got 4-5 A-Bolts in my gun cabinet. Everything from 280 Rem. to 338 Win. I love them. Never had a bit of trouble with any of them. I've drug them around in the mud of Alaska and dust of Africa. Some of them have never been cleaned. They worked every time for me.
I have 1 Vanguard, 300 Win. I don't know where it is. Standing in a corner somewhere, I suspect. If I was going to sell a rifle, it would be to one to go.
Isn't opinion and personal experience an interesting thing?

Try them both and buy whichever feels the best in your hands. I've never had a problem with either. I own three Brownings with three different types of actions and they are all reliable and accurate. But then again, so are the Vanguards.

Well I've had three A-Bolts and I'm down to one in 22 Hornet. The other two, one was a 270 and the other a 375 H&H. I never could get the bolts apart, without considerable effort and time. All three were very accurate, but I just didn't care for the overcomplicated bolt. The 270 gave me extractor issues once and the 375's 25" barrel, lightweitht and detachable magazine never appealed to me.

I hunted with the 270 quite a bit but he extractor was "iffy" leaving a spent cartridge in the chamber a couple of times. If I cleaned it with a stiff toothbrush the problem would go away, but eventually come back.

I was forced to take the bolt apart once after I was caught in a hefty downpour and that was an experiment in frustration. No way I was going to go through that drill again especially in africa if conditions required bolt disassembly. I continue to use the Hornet as it is a small-handy and very accurate rifle to pick off ground hogs at our place in Pennsylvania.

Yes, opinion--based on personal experience-- or the experiences of others you know and trust is what this forum's supposed to be all about, this is after all a FORUM, it would not exist without either. jorge

I've owned one A-bolt. Did exactly what I needed it for with no problems. A lot of people complain the bolt handle is screwed on, but if you can manage to break it off you're really being too hard on your rifle.

The MOA Vanguard looks like a winner, but at almost 8 pounds before optics I couldn't do it. I've had my fill of heavy hunting rifles. If you could make this gun shead a pound a of weight it would be a winner.

Terry

Vanguard I don't care for the overly complicated design of the A-Bolt.

I have owned a howa rifle and an a-bolt and much preferred the howa made rifle to the A-bolt with it's overdesigned magazine system and all the extra parts compared to most other rifles.

Have A-Bolts in .308 Win and .375 Wby. Both are excellent rifles and have functioned flawlessly for me.

That being said..........I'd buy the Vanguard. And I'd save the extra scratch from the Sub-MOA and buy a little better glass. My daughter has a Vanguard Compact .308 Win. with a Burris FF2 3x9. The gun shoots WELL under MOA. And for some reason.......stock design I suppose........ the recoil is less than any other .308 I've ever benched. I'm thinking I could trade a number of my old stand-bys off for that rifle.

I'd go A-Bolt. I love them...handy and light, great trigger etc. I've never had a problem in 20 yr.s of hard use and I've never heard of one that didn' shoot as well out of the box as any gun. If you don't like the recoil of the .300 WSM in a light gun you have the option of getting a BOSS equipped A-Bolt. The BOSS compensator works very well just to tune barrel whip, or if you're wearing ear protection you can use the breake to reduce recoil and tune barrel whip. The only down side of the A-Bolt is poor resale value due to the small market share. Subarus used to be like that. It makes a used A-Bolt a great deal.

I've always been underwhelmed with Weatherbys and have never owned one. They're pricey, ammo's pricey and they may or may not shoot. My gunsmith used to have a shop and he quit selling Weatherbys because so many of them didn't measure up to the claims. He got tired of losing customers over it.

That's my experience and my opinion. It is free and worth every penny of it.

Vanguard would be my choice. but I am biased, I already have one of those best kept secrets, they all are less than 1MOA at 100 yds.

Strut10, I would like to comment on the recoil. Give old man Weatherby credit, it's his design on the stock to displace recoil. Weatherby stuff weights more, but quality is always acceptable.

I have four Brownings including three A-bolts. They delivery MOA performance without any problem. One time I hunted in freezing rain with the entire bolt assembly frozon. The rifle still fired without any issue. Never had to take the bolt apart. A-bolts are light to carry and easy to shoot.

Can't comment on Vangard and never plan to own one.

Danny

quote:

I've always been underwhelmed with Weatherbys and have never owned one. They're pricey, ammo's pricey and they may or may not shoot.

I wouldn't buy the sub moa,but the standard vanguard offers great value for the price.And he is not talking a weatherby chambering,so price isn't an issue.

I found a Vanguard 30-06 in a pawn shop, Leupold 3 9x 40mm VXII. "Synthetic" -- blue steel. This is a "tuppareware" stock. The Sub MOA is a nicer set up, and twice the money. (Pawn Shop didn't have one in stock.)

Light, comfortable, smooth/reliable action, fits me, and a nice well thought out design. Also accurate as hell.

Browning makes decent stuff, but I have no experience with an A-Bolt.

when i tried to get a vanguard in sub-moa they told me i could only get it in certain calibures at the time.

the guy told me they get what they are given as sometimes it might take them a while to get a 300wsm to shoot sub-moa. when i asked i cant remember what they had, i think they were largly 7mm

I've never shot an A-bolt and I have owned a Vanguard in 300 wby for 4 years - Yes, I'm biased.

I don't think you would ever regret owning a Vanguard. Great accuracy.

Chalk another one up for the Vanguard.

No experience with Vanguards, but each and every Browning I've worked over in super-short magnum calibers were problem rifles with handloads. Problems-hard - and I mean hard bolt lift, extraction, etc. And not with max loads either. F/L resizing had no effect until I ground about .015" off the shell holder and bumped the shoulder .002-003". I'll agree that may be a caliber problem and not a rifle problem, and the WSM may not have the same problems as the WSSMs.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
I just can't see past that browning bolt design. jorge

My .270 and .300WM are both A-Bolts and I agree.

I assisted a friend who was in the market for a .270 or .30-06 beater rifle. The choices were Browning A-bolt SS, Weatherby Vangaurd SS and Remington's version (I forgot the model).

Well, it wasn't even close. Weatherby Vanguard for $499 was the clear cut winner. Good action, nice stock (about as nice as a black synthetic stock can get) and a 24" barrel.

The Remington was nice too but we didn't like the stock as much. The action was good but we both liked the Howa action more.

Although the Browning was nice too it was more $$$ but you get a 22" barrel instead of 24".

First off, I really want to thank everybody for providing their input into this thread. I not only learned much about the choice between the 2 guns but I also learned alot about my A-Bolt.

After much thinking about the matter, you know how it goes, thinking about the purchase can be a fun or as tormenting as the purchase itself, I have decided to keep my A-Bolt Medallion and use my .270 for everything.

I based this decision on price, bullet selection and recoil/gun weight.

It costs lots of money for me to get a new rifle even if I sell my Browning. Money I just can't justify.

With today's bullets that are available to the reloader, I can load up a very accurate round with a 150 grain bullet that will retain its weight and penetrate just as well as a 180 grain bullet of traditional design that will fly apart. I am hoping Barnes has the new MRX .277 150 gr. boat tail available for next years Elk season. The Barnes MRX might be a better choice for Elk in a .270 for longer ranges, providing expansion.

I have decided to put a Pachmayer decelerator pad on the A-Bolt's black piece of steel they call there rubber recoil pad. Turning the gun into a .22 basically. As much as I hate to admit it, but the benefits of being completely relaxed when pulling that trigger at a 350 yard shot is without words to describe.

Going to the heavier Vanguard to reduce recoil in the 300 WSM sure would be felt walking all day in the bush!

Now I just need to learn how to take apart the bolt on the A-Bolt. I don't think this design would be good for Africa that's for sure.

God Bless,

Corey