I'm considering another rifle, and probably gonna buy a .280 AI, or something else in 7mm.
Looking for opinions from those of you that have had your hands on all, or some of them, and have compared, and formed some hunting gun opinions. Triggers, actions, accuracy, feel, and over all quality. Pros & Cons please.
As always, I appreciate your input!

Looking for something in the $2,500.00 and under range, so feel free to include others.
Wood & Blue only!

Wait for GWB or PM him. I'm sure he owns or has owned all of them. In fact I know he's posted pics of all three.

Overall I like cooper the best for a factory rifle. Once in a while one will slip through the cracks and be shipped that's a dud, but not often.
Sako makes a nice rifle if you buy off the rack but they haven't been as accurate overall as the Coopers. I do like sako actions to build on, especially the older ones.
If you feel lucky buy a Kimber. It seems like about 1 out of 6 is a real shooter.

At your desired price point Cooper gets the nod

Here's what I'd do within your $2500 budget:

1. Buy an older Sako L61R Deluxe .30-06 with a stock that pleases you. The .30-06's go cheaper than most other calibers since they are more common. You should be able to get a like-new beauty for $1,200-$1,400.

2. Take it to your choice of quality riflesmiths and have them install a high-quality .280 barrel (or .280 AI if you wish, but there's little difference) on it with minimum chamber, minimum headspace, and a throat which allows a cartridge OAL of up to 3.6". This will run, what, $600?

Now you have around $2,000 in a rifle with the best action and factory hunting trigger made which holds 5 rounds down (6 total), and has a magazine long enough for you to seat the bullets out where they belong. It will fire a 150 grain spitzer at 3,000 fps, a combination that will nicely take any ungulate in N. America.

Funny you mention that. I spent over an hour looking for older Sako's last night. May do exactly, as you mentioned!
Thanks

Stonecreek is offering some excellent advice.

The newer Sako rifles are very good but the older ones are excellent. My only problem with this is their weight. But you could spend the extra money left in your budget for a McMillan, Manners, etc stock and fix that easily.

Check with Biebs and see if he still has the Christman 284 he was offering. Is was on Guns International #100553914. A really super rifle in your price range.

I've got a couple customs built on Sako 75s, had a 85, own two Coopers and 5 Kimbers.

All are different and they all have their little quirks.

First the Sakos. They have a heavy duty feel to them, and weigh more than they have to. The magazine works flawlessly and can be ignored and top fed if wanted. If the magazine is topped right up and the chamber loaded as well extracting that first case feels like you should hook up a team of horses to pull the bolt back. Some like that 60 degree bolt lift, I'd rather have a 90 to be honest. Triggers are good and can be made better. The 85 I had is one of the few rifles I've taken back. It had the disturbing trait of putting the first cold shot as much as 3 inches out of the group that followed. That may have been bedding, or more likely a poorly stress relieved barrel but in either case due to the accuracy warranty it was their problem, not mine. For the price they could have bedded it themselves. All in all, I'd say they are a good solid, heavier than they have to be and a bit more expensive than they should be rifle. Sort of like Weatherbys that way, but I digress.

My first Cooper is a 30-06 that I bought when I returned the Sako 85. Its not exactly light but was a great shooter out of the box. Trigger is excellent, and they bedded the rifle when they built it. Feeding from the single stack 3 shot magazine is far from smooth, and if I load the chamber and a full magazine it binds to the point of malfunctions when extracting the chambered shell. Using it as a three shooter avoids that. The extractor dragged on the inside of the receiver ring and made it seem like loads were over pressured when they weren't. It took far longer to figure out the problem than to fix it, and it was much better than sending it back to the States for warranty work. My other Cooper is a Western Classic in 7 STW. It shared the same extractor dragging issue, but was much worse. Any thing less than starting loads would nearly lock the bolt up. Grinding a bit off the outside of the extractor fixed that up, but it does call into question the whole test target thing. I don't think anyone could have shot it with noticing that problem so I tend to think that nobody did. Trigger is excellent, and being a special order was set to 2 pounds for me. Custom LOP is a free option that does save a few bucks. So does coming already bedded. I'd say that the first one (Classic) was worth its price-tag at least as much as the Sakos were, at least because I was a good sport about fixing my new rifles myself. The Western Classic I'm not as sure about. Its nice, but is it 4 grand nice? I don't think so. Having said that it not going anywhere, I'm just not buying any more of them. Neither can be described as light. The 60 degree bolt is something that I can live without but others seem to like.

Kimbers are sort of a different breed. Being light weight rifles some concessions to accuracy, or additional load work up might have to be made. My three favorites get shot out to 700 regularly and seem to hold their own in that regard. I like the hand shaped stock, the crf action and M70 safety. The triggers are even better than the Coopers, and the rifles come pillar bedded. The wood on my select grades put my Coopers to shame, and somehow did it for half and a quarter of the price. They are not perfect though, my .338 Win needed more extractor tension to function properly. (no tool adjustment if you know how) and three out of the five had pinched mag boxes. The 300 WSM took a bit of massaging the mag box to make feeding the perfection that I knew it could be, Again it was a free fix, given that I know how. A couple benefitted from a bit of polishing to get rid of a sharp edge on the extractor collar and all responded to polishing the tip of the ejector where it rides on the bolt. These aren't exactly function issues, but when you know they can be invisibly fixed for free you want it. The mags are fixed, blind in the case of the Montana and hold 4 down without binding in the case of the magnum chambering. That's a bit of a rarity by itself.

You asked for pros and cons and thats how I found them. It probably seems funny that I like the cheapest of the three makes best, but on balance of characteristics I do. It seems funny to me sometimes too.

HS Precision makes a great rifle.

No experience w/ Cooper.
My one Kimber experience (270 WSM (Whizbang) I recieved as a gift) has been very good. Very good trigger and very accurate (w/ factory ammo that came w/ it.
Now (older) Sakos are a different breed. My (3) Garcia and pre Garcias have been bedded and had trigger jobs. Great triggers, very accurate and very well made rifles. Being a rifle 'loon', I would search for an older Sako that resembles one of mine. Easy to do in your price parameter.
Good luck on your quest.

I'd do what stonecreek said.
I have had experience with all of these three. Sako has been far the best and Kimber by far the worst. Accuracy in the Kimber 84 was terrible before and after I returned it to the factory to be fixed.
Coopers were fine, but I thought over priced.

A friend of mine is a Nosler rifle dealer. He swears by them. The synthetics are priced quite nicely, and I'd put them up against the rifles mentioned above.

I've been in contact with the folks at Nosler over the past few months, and agree, they should have been included in this conversation.

The .284 is great looking by the way! Still learning as much as I can about the pros & cons if there are any. I'll talk to you soon.
Thanks

I have a Nosler Patriot in 7-08. I feel it's a lot of bang for the buck at the $1300 I bought it for. It shoots multiple loads/bullets/powder combinations well under 1".

For that kind of money, you can have a very nice Mauser 98 or OM 70 built into just what you want.
Either would let you seat the bullets out a bit farther.


I'm still holding a grudge against Cooper over the obama donation ($5K). Yeah, yeah, I know he sold the company. But, the people who bought it from him are still, iirc, making payments on the load. So, he is still making money of sales of the rifles.

just me...

Rich, you're right, and you're right. I struggle with both. Build a custom? Give money to Cooper?
I still don't know what I'll do. I may have my Pre 64/.270 built into something!
It could use a new barrel, and my papa had the stock cut off to short, and had a recoil pad installed by a less than reputable smith. This happened in 1959, and it truly needs to be converted to something good.

I don't know!

quote:

Originally posted by PSmith:
HS Precision makes a great rifle.

Yes they do. Just got a takedown and it is really nice and accurate.

of those mentioned I would opt for a older L series Sako..

My BG guns are Mausers and pre 64 mod. 70s..I insist on control feed except on a varmint rifle.

My varmint rifles have mostly been L-46 clip models in Bee and Hornet and an L-461 Sakos in 222 223 and 6x45. I owned a couple of kimbers and they were both very nice rifles..I owned one Cooper and will never own another.

I have a 700 rem in 280AI mcmillian stock krieger barrel super accurate Nosler makes some nice toys in that price range and in 280AI 280AI HITS LIKE A 7MAG without the recoil plus you can get 5 to 6 rounds in your gun. Coopers are nice to. Kevin

I would also suggest looking into the Nosler. They have some nice classic looking wood, not marble cake, but it's not 90s Winchester wood either. The triggers are fantastic and the accuracy will match cooper shot for shot. I have had 2 Coopers and 1 Kimber in 270s and 308. I liked them, but the Coopers were too fancy (custom Jackson Games) and the kimber was too finicky. The 280 AI, it's true may as well be a 7 mag. It also may not have a belt and it also may be the easiest brass to come by on the planet. Not only that, it's a little different adding to the personalized cool factor. The 284 is a great case...after it is necked down to .264

I have owned them all. For the money, Cooper out of the box rifles will out shoot any of the others mentioned (CONSISTENTLY). Most of the Kimber rifles take a little work to get them to shoot. If it were me I would just spend the money and have a custom built. I have went to the dark side and it is very expensive. Shooting custom built rifles will make you spend the money. Sako L actions are nice stuff but for my money I would go with a cooper repeater.

Well, the decision has been made, and I expect a new rifle to arrive tomorrow. I chose a Kimber 84 Classic Select in .280 AI
I have a Cooper .280 AI composite, but have yet to shoot it. Also have an assortment of Sako's. My go to deer rifle for the last 4 or 5 years has been a Sako 75 Finlite, 7-08. I've got a couple of Kimbers, but haven't spent enough time with them to really have a good opinion based on experience.
I do like all three, and agree with most of you in your opinions. The Coopers are a little heavier, but great shooters generally. The Sako is good in all respects also.
I based the decision mainly on how they feel in my hands. The Kimber has a great feel, and with a little tweeking, should make a great hunting rifle.
It seems that all fall short of perfection according to the opinions here, and I would certainly agree.
I did strongly considerd a custom build, but the money gets a little beyond what I'm willing to spend, and then carry to the field without worry, or concern about scuffing, and scarring.
At 12 to $1,300.00 The Kimber seemed to be a good choice.
I certainly appreciate all the input, and the help in considering these rifles. I will also say that the Nosler is one I will probably own before long.
Great shooting!
TC

quote:

Originally posted by boliep:

The newer Sako rifles are very good but the older ones are excellent. My only problem with this is their weight.

True. I chased down an orig. SAko Finbear 'classic' .270win decades ago, but then sold it cause of the weight.
If it had been a .300mag the weight would have been more acceptable.

Sako around that time also had same classic stock shape in the Mcmillan stocked "FibreClass".
Still, it was no 'mountain rifle'.

The rifle...you can more than likely have any action you like built into a fine and accurate rifle. To me that's mostly a matter of taste and we all have our favorites.

Cartridge...I remain unconvinced that any semi-modern cartridge is inherently more accurate than another or, within their ballistic limitations, any more effective on game. Certainly biggers bores should be used on bigger game and it's sort of silly to use something like 416 Rigby to shoot prairie dogs. Might be fun but it's definitely overkill. As with rifle actions, we all have our favorites.

My thought, get the one that brings a smile to your face!

It is moot now, but I think I would have bought a Tikka assuming they offered one in your caliber. I would then have spent "a ton" on good glass, and put the rest in my pocket.

Best out of the box rifle I have ever gotten hold of at that price point.