I had a 26" Douglas barreled .280 Rem in a Rem 700, recently rechambered to the AI forty degree case. This gun always seemed to have a fairly "fast" barrel , though the fact that it was a twenty six incher probably helped too.

Anyway.....With 150 Swift Scirrocos and 61.0 grains of Reloader 19 I'm getting close to 3200 fps! That seems a bit TOO fast to me. With the same bullet and a lighter charge of R19 in the standard .280 chambering I always got high 2900+ figures with the ocasional 3000 fps average when I used WLR primers. Cases lasted several loadings and gre only a negligible amount from firing to firing.

I'm new to the Ackley cartridges so anyone else have a similar experience??

I've always done well with IMR4831, and Reloader 19 in the std .280 and my preffered 150 grain bullets. Anyone else using anything else with good results??

FN in MT

Frank,

With a bonded-core bullet, there's no such thing as TOO FAST!

Enjoy the performance. Go out and kill something with it

George

Hey Frank, You planning on poking a hole or two in those Elk you hunt with this one?

Concerning the Velocity, I understand your question as to mean - "Hey, what's the Pressure doing?" (I agree that the Velocity tells you nothing about what the Pressure is doing.)

Well, that is an excellent question. Back when I messed with Wildcats, I used Case Head Expansion(CHE) and Pressure Ring Expansion(PRE) as methods to let me know when to STOP dumping in Powder. And, I still use them irregardless of the cartridge.

If you have no desire to use CHE & PRE, then seeing how long 3 cases will maintain a "snug" Primer Pocket with your current Load is as good as it gets. If I couldn't get 5-8 reloads while maintaining a "snug" Primer Pocket, I'd back off a bit.

If you decide to try CHE, check it using a 0.0001" capable Micrometer in the exact same spot on the case before and after firing a Load. Of course, the difference is the actual CHE. Only measure CHE on loads 2 through 6-to-9 because the brass will work-harden and skew the results. The amount of work-hardening depends on the Pressure of those Loads being tested.

A set of Thin Blade Micrometers allows you to do the CHE measurement on those "Non-Belted" cases without having to file down the rim on each side. If you don't file the rim down a bit, the regular Micrometers will bottom on the rim rather on the case "just past" the Extraction Groove.

A person who is experienced in PRE can actually use it on Wildcats too. But a person who is just beginning to use it for the first time would probably miss the "subtle" Pressure Indication of when you reached SAFE MAX.

PRE can be used by anyone on standard (Non-Wildcat) chambers because they can compare the PRE of the factory ammo with the PRE of their own Test Loads.

Best of luck to you with that new rifle.

Frank Nowakowski

Are you trying to pull our legs I guess that you should be happy and use good bonded bullets and stop complaining I envy you....

Treasure such a rifle

/ JOHAN

What kind of game are you planning on using it for? As long as pressures are under control and accuracy is good I dont see the problem, Just think of your gun as a 270 with exceptional energy characteristics..

You know Frank, some guys just get all of the luck! Are you getting good accuracy w/ the Swift? I have been thinking of trying some in my .280, but was put off a bit by the pure copper jacket. I haven't had much luck w/ Barnes bullets, so I'm inclined to stay w/ gilding jackets.
As far as the high velocity, I had a 6" Colt Python that was always 150+fps faster than any other .357 I had a chance to crono. I also had a 2 3/4" .357 that was faster than many 4" guns, so life's great, be happy!

[ 09-27-2002, 18:50: Message edited by: fredj338 ]

This is a Rem 700 with a #3 taper Douglas in a glass stock with a 3.5-10X Leupold. The original .280 was an under 2" gun at 200 yds consistently.(With a grand average of 1.7" for four shot groups over about a dozen groups at 200 yds) So far with the new chambering it appears to be just as accurate. Its my prairie whitetail rifle that occasionally gets used for elk. Thats why I like the 150's they will work for antelope, deer or in a pinch even elk. So much of my deer and even elk hunting is at longer ranges due to the open country. With a rangefinder , a Harris bipod,a little skill and some patience, you can do succesful 300-350 yd shots regularly.

HotCore,
As far as pressure I really check case growth and primer pockets for looseness. So far with the initial fireforming, then three loadings they are tight and haven't grown but a minute amount. I'm just amazed how a simple rebore with what? Eight per cent more case capacity. Can give me an additional 200+ fps!! I was figuring on 125-150 additional fps max. I'm NOT complaining.

Fred,

I have had the same problems with Barnes as you have had, so I gave up on them. The Swift Scirrocos have been fairly easy to make shoot in both 7mm and .30 cal, at least so far. I just clean the barrel very well then fire a few fouling shots. They seem to group just fine.

Remember to keep me informed on your MT trip. We need to go out and have some dinner and tell some lies one night. The deer crop is doing VERY well this year and the elk, at least in my area wintered well too. LOTS of em out there.

Wstrnhuntr,

Calling MY .280 a mere TWO SEVENTY is fightin' words Boy! Lets hear NO more of such talk!
Everyone kows that if you have faith in your particular chambering it CAN take on mythical power proportions. I'm a big .280 fan as it has never let me down. THE best bull I ever took was at 392 yds, with this .280 and 150 partitions. Boom, drop, photo session!

Thanks for the replies,

FN in MT

You probably are running the pressures up fairly high. The straighter walls of the Ackleys cause the case to grip the sidewalls of the chamber and keep you from seeing the simple signs of flattened primer and ejector mark when the chamber pressures get up there. You have to use the measuring methods that Hot Core mentioned to see it. Some barrels are faster than others and 3200 with a 150 Scirroco is very fast for a .280 Ackley. I'm a take it to the firewall kinda guy when it comes to reloading but I would recommend caution. I wouldn't go any further and might consider backing off a little if the accuracy doesn't suffer. No game animal is going to know the difference in 100fps, but you might be saving yourself some trouble with the rifle.

Frank:

FWIW......I concur with the previous poster that you might be somewhat "over the top" I can't speak specifically to the 280. However,I had a 30-06AI that delivered a bit more velocity than most sources suggested that it would. At first, I was a happy, hotroddin' kinda guy (you know, faster is better) then out of nowhere, I blew a primer badly and got my face stung slightly.

That got me sobered up in a big way. It's better to be a little safer, and a lot less sorry. Trust me, I know what you're probably thinking. "Well heck, it's been fine so far"........But so was mine.

JimF

Went to the local Gun show tonight and spent several hours visiting with a few very knowledgeable buddies who have been down the road with the AI's. They mentioned exactly what Mr. Lewis stated; the straight sidewalls will deter "normal" pressure signs. I was going to back down a few grains anyway but this new information assures that I will. I have alway been a less than MAX loader so its no big deal to me.

Damn! Apparently there really isn't a "free Lunch".

FN in MT

Welcome to the world of "improved" cases.
I disagree that they hide pressure sign, but they do alter when it appears.
They do reduce pressure over the same load in a standard case.
They inhibit brass stretch, by reducing bolt thrust, and that's where the pressure sign bit comes to play. You wont see brass stretch on a high pressure load until you are way up there.
As to primer sign. Sorry, my improved shows flattened primers just as easily as any other.
My biggest complaint with improved designs is the lack of verified data. You are very much on your own, be carefull!

All of the above is my opinion, based on my 303 epps improved, and PLEASE treat all advice given to you on your improved as an opinion. Regardless of source!

[ 09-28-2002, 14:11: Message edited by: John Y Cannuck ]

Frank,

If you had not been using Re 19, I would have suspected a Chrony as the culprit.

A few years back I had over 3000 with 150s in a 22 inch 270 M70 Feather Weight and over 3200 with 180s in a 24 inch 300 Win Rem 700 Stainless with Re 19.

I think Re 15 and Re 19 are probably worth at least a 100 f/s over IMR powders and our Australian powders that Hodgdon sells as Extreme.

Mike

Hot Core, yes we certainly do have some good BBQ. There's a place about 15 miles from the shop that we send out to regularly, every time I feel my cholesterol level slipping. Just let me know when you're coming.

I'm sorry to say that I didn't pay attention to the exact load that was mentioned at the beginning, but 61grains of RL19 with a 150 gr Scirroco is definitely beyond max. Max with a 140 grain bullet and RL19 is about 59.5 - 60 grains. Reduce this by about 1 grain for the 150s and at least another .5 grain for the long bearing surface of the Scirrocco and you have about 58 grains.

I have shot between 250 and 300 different .280 Ackleys. I've seen a few (3 or 4) that would take a lot of extra powder like this, but they always made me nervous.

I see the pundits have all spoken!! One question: How long do your cases last at these velocity levels? If you can get about 10 reloadings out of a case before it is too worn out to load again, your pressures are O.K.!! This particularly applies to primer pocket expansion. If your primer pockets are staying tight, you are O.K., BUT, if they get loose after three or four reloadings, you need to cut back several grains!!