I have never shot anything alive with cast bullets.

How would a deer hold up to being shot with a 165gr flatnosed case bullet from a 308 or 30-06, vs. a standard factory JSP?

Comparing cast bullets and jacketed bullets is like comparing apples and oranges. Cast projectiles, round balls and bullets were used for hundreds of years to take game before jacketed bullets were developed. The cast bullet has limitations that need to be kept in mind when used for hunting. Velocity and expansion are the cast bullets biggest limitations. A reasonable velocity for a relatively soft gas checked cast bullet that will expand is 2100 fps. A bullet cast from wheel weights makes a good hunting bullet and its hardness will be between 8 and 10 bhn. A cast bullet of flat point design is a good choice due to its increased shock effect.
Most commercial hard cast bullets are too hard for hunting. They do not expand and will shatter if bone is struck due to being very brittle.
Beartooth bullets (www.beartoothbullets.com) produces a very good hunting bullet. They are heat treated which hardens the outside of the bullet for less leading at higher velocity but expand well.
With cast bullets bigger is better, so 30 caliber is the smallest caliber I would recommend for big game hunting. Big game shot with a cast bullet may not show any signs of being hit due to the lower velocity and lack of expansion.
Enjoy the challenge and good luck.

Well, if cast bullets were so ineffective, a few million bison would still be roaming the plains of this country.
I guess a 165 gr. bullet will work for deer, although my preference is for a heavier bullet.
I used cast bullets exclusively in the 30-30 for deer hunting. The bullet I usually use is Lyman's #311291 cast from wheel weights and sized at .310". I've taken 15 deer with that bullet using either 30.0 gr. of IMR-3031 or 30.0 gr. of W-748. velocity is right at 200-2100 depending on which 30-30 rifle I use. The last two deer however were taken witht he RCBS #30-180-FN which weighs 190 gr. in wheel weight metal. With 28.0 gr. of W-748, velocity is 1950 FPS, duplicating the old .303 Savage round. it just seems to smack deer a bit harder than the 175 gr. Lyman bullet. The RCBS bullet also has a large meplat, IE, flat on the nose while the Lyman bullet is a round nose style. In either case, I rarely recover a spent bullet, at least on the broadside shots.
Getting an accurate load is fairly easy with the 30-30. The .308 and 30-06 can also be quite accurate with cast bullets, but may require a bit more experimentation. Then again, you might get lucky on the first try. I did for a target load in a Winchester M70 in .308 witht he RCBS bullet. I got 1.5 MOA at 200 yards with 25.0 gr. of IMR-4895. With velocity at only a hair over 1500 FPS, it's not a load for hunting. Strictly a target load.
A cartridge that should be great with cast bullets for deer and black bear would be the .358 Win. as would the .35 Whelen. With cast bulets, the bigger the hole the better. Now, if I could only get my .358 to cooperate.
Paul B.

A lot depends on the range at which the game is shot. Out to 100 yards, I'd just as soon use cast bullets as anything else. Much beyond that distance, I personally would prefer to use cast bullets only if of 200 grain weight and .33 diameter or bigger, preferably a bunch bigger.

Having said that, I would remind one and all that a heck of a lot of deer were killed clear up until the early 1960's with the .32-40 Winchester, using 165-170 grain cast bullets at velocities often in the mid 1,300 fps range. Some, of course, still are. (The big two discontinued most .32-40 and .38-55 loads in 1964. That pretty much made brass unobtainable in remote areas until about the 1990's and killed hunting with both calibers for the most part.)

The main thing, as I see it, is that with cast bullets a person actually has to learn to hunt. For me, that makes it fun.

For those who are more interested in being able to say they killed a deer, rather than enjoying the fun of the hunt itself, I would suggest that sticking with jacketed bullets and higher velocities is the more humane route.

A lot depends on what one is trying to do. If one just wants to kill deer at out to 200 yards or so they well do that if stuck in the right place. If one wants kill deer farther or wants a little more smashing power and bit more vel a good or better jacketed bullet is the way to go.

I've shot deer with cast bullets from 50 grs and up they kill deer. I prefer jacketed bullets
But if all I had were cast I would be eating venison each and every year.

quote:

But if all I had were cast I would be eating venison each and every year.

I think that pretty well sums it up.
Paul B.

Thanks, that is what I needed to know.

I think I have some casing in my future.

Any reccomendation for specific molds for I am thinking 308 and 30-06, 110gr for plinking, 165gr for more serious work.

I would suggest a heavier bullet for larger game like deer. One that has worked well for me is the RCBS #30-180-FN which casts a 190 gr. bullet in wheel weight metal. You should be able to reach a velocity somewhere between 2000 and 2200 FPS. Cast bullets suitable for hunting are not high velocity items. In order to get higher velocity, the bullets have to be very hard, and hard bullets will either shatter on bone making a mess or pencil on through like a solid. The RCBS bullet has a nice flat meplat on the nose which will help deliver shock to the intended animal. The two der I have taken with that bullet seemed to drop a lot faster than deer with the Lyman #311291 which has a round nose. The Lyman bullet was loaded to about 2000 FPS and the RCBS bullet to right at 1950 FPS from a 20" barreled 30-30.(Win. 94)
Paul B.

Paul B, I have found getting a 30 caliber to 2100fps with any accuracy and no leading problems is graduate level casting and reloading. Starting out 1600 fps will work fine out to 125 yrds or so and will be much easier to acheive. The whitetail and black bear I have taken with that load, RCBS 30-180gn FN @ 1650 fps have only needed one shot each, plus they hold nice round 2 inch groups at 100 yrds.

I know your suggested load can be done, but it takes experience and time. Lets get him some meat on the pole first, get him really hooked on cast bullets and then he can go as far as he wants, then we have another convert ...................JJ

ddunn, I would suggest XMP 5744 as a powder to start with. It is designed NOT to be position senistive in the case, and it is the standby for cast or BP equivelint loads. Mike Venturino has written several articals regarding cast in rifles. I know Mike well, we come from the same hometown. If you need load data let me know and I'll hook you up with some starting data..........JJ

Experimentation, and willingness to do lots of it, is probably essential to good results with cast stuff....either that or a plentitude of pure blind luck.

It has been my experience that for me generally speaking, with softer alloys both softer lubes (like SPG or 50/50 real Beeswax/Alox) and faster burning powders are pretty good matches.

For harder alloys in the .30s, harder lubes (like Blue Angel), larger diameters like .311" clear up to .314", and slower powders (like N-135) have worked better for me clear up to 2,400 fps with bullets as heavy as 215 grains. I have not found plain-based bullets to be generally successful over about 1,750 fps in the .30s regardless of the alloy used, at least not in my rifles.

YMMV and probably will.

quote:

Originally posted by ddunn:
...I think I have some casing in my future.

Any reccomendation for specific molds for I am thinking 308 and 30-06, 110gr for plinking, 165gr for more serious work.

Hey ddunn, Since you are going with Cartridges that have a Shoulder, that eliminates being able to use a Milk Carton Gas Check. So, I'd recommend you get a Mold that Casts a Bullet designed for a Swage-On Gas Check. You apply it as the Bullet goes through the Lube/Sizer.

And I agree with the recommendations for something with a nice w-i-d-e flat nose. It really makes a HUGE difference in on-game performance.

The reason for the Gas Check is to eliminate Leading created during the Firing Sequence where a bit is blown off the Base and into the Bore. But, that is only one of the kinds of Leading.

Go too slow and you get a different type, same for too fast. Also Blow-By, etc. Getting the Alloy balanced for your specific use can be easy or tricky.

Shooting Lead is becoming a lost art, but not impossible. Look for Boards (on here and elsewhere) that cater to the Cast Bullet folks and do a lot of reading and asking questions.

They can be excellent, but generally take a bit of work to get there.

Best of luck to you.