Im looking for a new deer gun, it dosnt have to drive tacks but i would prefer 1 inch groups at 100 yards. I would prefer a 308 bolt action. Im looking for a new gun in the 300-4oo$ range like maybe a savage axis, marlin xs7, or mossberg 100atr. Dose anybody have any suggestions?

quote:

Dose anybody have any suggestions?

Chase the used racks....find a used Remington....it's a much better value!

I agree with vapo on the used rack. Do you have any pawn shops in your area? The rifles you mention get good reviews but unless you need a gun right now I would save a little more and get something a bit better than an entry level rifle.

+1 more on the used rack. In fact thats where I buy all my rifles from now because very few new ones are made half as good as they used to be. Take a look at
http://www.gunbroker.com/ You will likely find exactly what your looking for.

I don't want to tell you what to buy or not to buy but the 308 is not the best choice for a deer round IMO. There are so many other rounds that do a much better job for deer but those that use it will tell you it is the do all and end all of cartridges.

My personal favorite is the 270 winchester but your wanting a short action so I am going to suggest you take a long look at the 260 & 7mm-08 which are both better choices for deer sized game over the 308. It is basically the same 30-06 vs the 270 debate but in a smaller case and most everyone pretty much agrees that the 270 is the better choice for game up to deer and the 06 is better for deer on up. This relationship translates directly to the 08 series of cartridges too.

Before you buy check the ballistic performance of each and apply it to your hunting style.

Put me in the .270 is not better than the 30-06 list.

I do like the .260 and 7-08 but don't think they are better than the .308 either.

quote:

Originally posted by deerslayerdave:
Im looking for a new deer gun, it dosnt have to drive tacks but i would prefer 1 inch groups at 100 yards. I would prefer a 308 bolt action. Im looking for a new gun in the 300-4oo$ range like maybe a savage axis, marlin xs7, or mossberg 100atr. Dose anybody have any suggestions?

XS7 is a pretty good value for a $300 rifle. It's light, accurate and has really nice "accutype" trigger. I picked one up as a bad weather gun in 308.

quote:

Originally posted by deerslayerdave:
Im looking for a new deer gun, it dosnt have to drive tacks but i would prefer 1 inch groups at 100 yards. I would prefer a 308 bolt action. Im looking for a new gun in the 300-4oo$ range like maybe a savage axis, marlin xs7, or mossberg 100atr. Dose anybody have any suggestions?

Check This Out!!

Go to: http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti....aspx?Item=212856272

quote:

Originally posted by deerslayerdave:
Im looking for a new deer gun, it dosnt have to drive tacks but i would prefer 1 inch groups at 100 yards. I would prefer a 308 bolt action. Im looking for a new gun in the 300-4oo$ range like maybe a savage axis, marlin xs7, or mossberg 100atr. Dose anybody have any suggestions?

Howa/Weatherby Vanguard. Great value and accuracy.

I like rummaging through the used racks too, never know what youll find there, Im always on the lookout for somethig special like a J.C. Higgins or FN Mauser or who knows. But the truth is the used rack is a crap shoot. Ive ended up with worn out bbls that dont shoot worth a darn. Got some real nice finds too, but its like Gump says, its like a box o chocklates.. Ya never know what your gonna get..

quote:

I don't want to tell you what to buy or not to buy but the 308 is not the best choice for a deer round IMO. There are so many other rounds that do a much better job for deer .

308 kills um just as dead. Excellent round IMHO..

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:

quote:

I don't want to tell you what to buy or not to buy but the 308 is not the best choice for a deer round IMO. There are so many other rounds that do a much better job for deer .

308 kills um just as dead. Excellent round IMHO..

I didn't catch that comment at first. Not sure how a 260 or 7mm-08 is better for deer. I have a 257R, 6.5x55 and a 308. There really is no difference in their killing effectiveness on deer.

I thought I read it wrong too.
captain finlander. How do you consider the 260 or 7-08 better than the 308? Im not in love with the 308,but to say it is not suitable for deer is completly ignorant!! And what other round does a "much better job"? And I have killed deer and elk with the 308 AND 270. 308 seems to work just as good.

quote:

Originally posted by ty_falcon:
I thought I read it wrong too.
captain finlander. How do you consider the 260 or 7-08 better than the 308? Im not in love with the 308,but to say it is not suitable for deer is completly ignorant!! And what other round does a "much better job"? And I have killed deer and elk with the 308 AND 270. 308 seems to work just as good.

You need to re-read my post because you missed most of it. Like I stated, there are those that think it is the do all and end all of cartridges and you must be one of them.

First of all I never said it was not suitable, that was your interpretation. I only stated that there were better choices for deer. The 308 is a big caliber and does not offer the same terminal performance with lighter bullets. Most will agree with that. Therefore in order to get the best performance out of it you need to be using the heavier bullets. This effects its trajectory greatly in comparison to the other two so for deer, like was stated very clearly by the original poster, the 308 is on the heavy side of what is necessary.

So, the 120 to 140 grainers make for a more optimal bullet weight for killing deer and the 260 to 7mm-08 offer the best bullets in that weight making them a much better choice.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Finlander:
...So, the 120 to 140 grainers make for a more optimal bullet weight for killing deer and the 260 to 7mm-08 offer the best bullets in that weight making them a much better choice.

A 7-08 is a 'much better choice' than 308 for deer?

I have a 6mm Rem mod 7 I don't use it because of fit. My next rifle will be in 6.5x55. I promise that's the last one, really.

I still don't see why any 150 grain bullet from a 308 won't kill a deer just as dead.

The .308 is a great round. But I don't understand why you want it in bolt action. The beauty of the .308 is it being short, it works in actions other than bolt better than 30-06. If you aren't going to use that beauty and get bolt--why not get 30-06? That was my thoughts on the matter and then I read the same thoughts expressed by Jack O'Connor in his book The Hunting Rifle. I realize many bolt action .308's out there so obviously lots of folks don't agree with me.

deerslayerdave,

I'd recommend a Savage for the price range you're looking at. IMO, best rifle for the money going. Do yourself a favor and put some decent glass on it.

For deer a .308 is a fine cartridge, as is the .270, 7-08, .30-06, .280, .260, 6.5x55, .257Roberts, etc. etc. Internet forums love to argue the esoteric merits of each versus the other. The reality for most folks who just want to shoot a deer, are that the differences don't amount to a hill of beans.

-nosualc

quote:

For deer a .308 is a fine cartridge, as is the .270, 7-08, .30-06, .280, .260, 6.5x55, .257Roberts, etc. etc. Internet forums love to argue the esoteric merits of each versus the other. The reality for most folks who just want to shoot a deer, are that the differences don't amount to a hill of beans.

The deer are just a dead so in that respect there is zero difference. But; there is a world of difference in recoil and gun carry weight between a 30-06 and 7mm08. I have both and its more that the paper numbers might suggest. The 7mm is one pound lighter, 2 inch shorter and significant less recoil.

The arguments do break down when you pick a very close pair. Like compare 260 to 7mm-08. But taking a 257 Roberts and saying the same as 30-06 - that is a big big pile of beans.

The 308 is a great all around gun as are the 30/30 and 30-06. But for white tail, the 7mm,6.5,260 really hit the sweet spot. A gun that is 'good' for moose and black bear cannot be 'ideal' for deer.

Really bad weather, freezing rain and snow are a big game changer. Then I favor a 44 lever with 16.5 bbl or a shotgun.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
A gun that is 'good' for moose and black bear cannot be 'ideal' for deer.

I must be slow today. I guess I don't understand the word "ideal". A 308 with 150 grain bullet is ideal for dear. I don't believe there is much difference is weight or recoil when compared to a 140 7mm-08 or a 140 260 Rem. If you want to load 165 and 180 for bigger game, great. Versatility in a round should be an advantage not a disadvantage.

A Stevens Mod.200 will fit your needs. roger

The 7-08 is a VASTLY superior deer cartridge. Because I have several and I like them. That should be proof enough for anyone.

Actually, the best deer cartridge is the .223 in one of the "platforms" with a McSwirly "handle". You never have to shoot any animal twice. Every time you shoot, the animal falls dead in it's shadow and the only consideration you have to give to distance is how far do you want to walk to retrieve your DRT animal. I have been told by numerous "platform" users that if it had been invented then, Bell would have used the .223 (with a BR549 bullet of course) to kill elephants.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
The 7-08 is a VASTLY superior deer cartridge. Because I have several and I like them. That should be proof enough for anyone.

I stand corrected.

I love this debate and it is so crazy because the 308 fans just find it hard to swallow that their favorite caliber isn't perfect for everything.


Here is the rub for me. I have been around long enough to remember reading the 270 vs 30-06 debate for years but now so many years later, with all the para military taking over all facets of the gun world, the 308 has risen to a point were some believe it to be better than the 30-06. I think I can say I have heard it all.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
The deer are just a dead so in that respect there is zero difference. But; there is a world of difference in recoil and gun carry weight between a 30-06 and 7mm08. I have both and its more that the paper numbers might suggest. The 7mm is one pound lighter, 2 inch shorter and significant less recoil.

The arguments do break down when you pick a very close pair. Like compare 260 to 7mm-08. But taking a 257 Roberts and saying the same as 30-06 - that is a big big pile of beans.

The weight difference you speak of is a function of the rifle, not the cartridge. There are lightweight and heavyweight factory rifles chambered in all the above cartridges (with the possible exception of the bob, I don't know who makes it in a factory rifle). I just took a quick look at some of the various rem 700 specs (as an example), and the change in weight (while keeping the rifle the same) across different chamberings was none or as much as 1/8 of one pound. For the Savages, the difference was zero.

I'll grant you that the recoil difference between a 257 Roberts and an 30-06 is non-trivial, as those are the two cartridges listed at the extreme ends of this particular recoil spectrum, and typically use much different bullet weights. However, all the cartridges above are thought by most to be within the range of acceptable recoil by most people.

I was talking about the average, non-rifle loony, deer hunter, who buys his non-specialized, factory rifle at the local retailer, shoots 1-2 boxes or less of ammo a year, and then drags it 200 yards into the woods one week a year. Most hunters just aren't that into the shooting part of the sport.

For this person, all of these cartridges are more or less the same in effectiveness. The differences we all wax on and on about become important only when somebody is looking for very specific qualities to fit their specific needs or taste.

Personally, I have a .308, and have a .280 being built. Would I feel disadvantaged hunting deer with any of the other cartridges listed above? Absolutely not.

Is a .260 or 7-08 a better choice then a .30-06 for somebody who wants an light rifle to chase mule deer across mountain ranges in Idaho? Yes, but that's not the guy who I was talking about.

-nosualc

ps - Oh, and the .308 IS better than the .30-06

I'm glad I hunt in Missouri where all the deer can be killed with a .243/6mm. Them out state deer must be some tough sons-of-britches.

I shot a deer at 100 or so yards with a 129 grain bullet out of a .260, it was dead! I shot a geer at about 100 yards with a 125 grain NBT out of a .308, it was dead! I shot another deer at 250 lasered yards with a 140 grain Barnes x bullet out of a .308 it was dead! All three guns recoil about the same to my shoulder so what is the point?
The debate here should be about guns in the $300-$400 price range as that was the question.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Finlander:
I love this debate and it is so crazy because the 308 fans just find it hard to swallow that their favorite caliber isn't perfect for everything.


Here is the rub for me. I have been around long enough to remember reading the 270 vs 30-06 debate for years but now so many years later, with all the para military taking over all facets of the gun world, the 308 has risen to a point were some believe it to be better than the 30-06. I think I can say I have heard it all.

I don't think anyone on this thread claimed the 308 was the best thing going. I think most would agree it's just as good on deer as a 7mm-08 or a 260. I personally think the Swede is the best deer cartridge created followed closely by the Roberts.

quote:

Originally posted by Donald Nelson:
The debate here should be about guns in the $300-$400 price range as that was the question.

Yes! Why are these threads always so quick to drift off topic?

I don't think $300-400 will get one much in the way of a new rifle anymore. I too would be shopping used if that was my budget. Chancier, but you could end up with a decent scoped shooter if you are fortunate...

quote:

deerslayerdave
Posted 23 January 2011 02:35
Im looking for a new deer gun, it dosnt have to drive tacks but i would prefer 1 inch groups at 100 yards. I would prefer a 308 bolt action. Im looking for a new gun in the 300-4oo$ range like maybe a savage axis, marlin xs7, or mossberg 100atr. Dose anybody have any suggestions?
Posts: 1 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 18 January 2011

Dave, the truth is how well the rifle fits you and how well you shoot the rifle is more important than the caliber or cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by deerslayerdave:
Im looking for a new deer gun, it dosnt have to drive tacks but i would prefer 1 inch groups at 100 yards. I would prefer a 308 bolt action. Im looking for a new gun in the 300-4oo$ range like maybe a savage axis, marlin xs7, or mossberg 100atr. Dose anybody have any suggestions?

Of the three, I prefer the Savage. Get some decent optics and you are good to go. Practice at the range and try some different weight bullets. I would recommend 150 or 165 gr bullets. It is important to know the tajectory of whatever ammunition you are using unless you always hunt (shoot) from the same stand that is a known distance from a feeder, in that case, sight your rifle at that range.

Here's one to look at: http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/axisxp

My 308 shooting the 165grain Federal Trophy bonded tips and Accubonds has killed everything it hit. The animals never moved out of there tracks either...Call me crazy, but I will stick with the hard recoiling little Remington 308...

WARNING!!! Dont buy a older Remington model 700 with the 21" barrel...They're recoil is quite impressive to say the least. My buddy who shoots a 375 Ultra Mag on a regular basis refuses to shoot it. But if you find a newer one, jump all over it...

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Finlander:
The 308 is a big caliber and does not offer the same terminal performance with lighter bullets. Most will agree with that.

Nonsense. I have used a 257 AI for my last several deer. Ive used a 300 savage, 7mm Magnum, 243 Winchester, 30-06, etc. etc. and guess what. The only one I have not gotten one shot kills with was the 243, which was probably my own fault by the way. I aint saying the 308 is the end all cartridge, Im just saying to consider it less than a smaller caliber for deer because of sectional density or whatever is bull-ogna.

When it comes to a deer cartridge it is really more a matter of preferance than anything and not too many will dispute the 308's reputation as an accurate cartridge or the value of an accurate rifle in the field..

I know a few guys who hunt deer with a 308 and I would never consider them handicapped in any way due to their choice of chambering. 150 gn .30 cal pill will git-er-done every time.

Now you wanna talk terminal performance and Elk, that is another subject altogether. Deer just aint that hard to kill.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
The .308 is a great round. But I don't understand why you want it in bolt action. The beauty of the .308 is it being short, it works in actions other than bolt better than 30-06. If you aren't going to use that beauty and get bolt--why not get 30-06?

Bolt actions have a lot of built in pluses. Their reliability, accuracy, ease of maintaining.. One good reason for getting a 308 bolt as opposed to the 06 variation is for a lighter weight/mountian rifle.

But the short round does make great fodder for a lever or semi auto action.

Errrr.uhhh....hummm, A .308? If I have the facts correct (and I do..) it's the most accurate .30 caliber (commercially available) cartridge on the planet and arguably the most accurate round off the shelf period. Proven deadly on deer out to 6 and 7 hundred yards, deadly on elk out to 4 and 5oo yards and a very good all around pig thumper and a coyotes nightmare all the way out to 800 yards. Not to mention the fact that it's the easiest and most forgiving/tolerant cartridge to hand-load. It's in no way at all a "do all" cartridge, but nothing is.

I used a 308 BLR on deer for years. Nice little gun. Good cartridge. Seemed to work just fine. Also shot a couple of cow elk with it. Taken a few pronghorn with a bolt action action 308. I'm a big fan of the 308.
That being said, I bought a 7-08 two years ago and started deer hunting with it just because I wanted to try something new. It works great too. A little less recoil and a bit flatter trajectory than the .30 cal. Seems to kill deer just as dead.
I don't know if one is any better than the other. I enjoy shooting them both. but the argument that one or the other is not "ideal" for deer is ridiculous.

If it shoots inside an inch it is a tackdriver. No one should expect more.

I think "ideal" is a personal thing. Where you live and how you hunt have to matter - obviously right?

I had a friend whose ideal white tail rifle was a Marlin in 35 Remington. He had no use for a 30/30 or 257, that 35 was just the ticket.

Fast forward and two of my older friends have switched to 243 and accounted for over a dozen white tail with none wounded and lost. The 243 seems to work pretty well for them.

My limited experience at my best 'ideal', for white tail (in reasonable weather) is the 7mm08. That has plenty extra range and over kill factored in. For me, a 30caliber on the same case is a little more. I already granted, it pretty senseless to argue 10 grains lead and .02 caliber is any kind of significant. If I had to start over with a new gun today I'd consider smaller like 260, but at the end of the day probably stick with 7mm - just becasue.

You can always spin things a bit. If I look at all the available factory loads and all the game in North America, the 308 looks pretty darn good. I prefer the '06 for that hypothetical, but ... thats another debate no one can ever win.

Does any of this help the the guy looking for a good quality rifle on a very tight budget. Maybe, it might open his mind to other chamberings on a used gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
If it shoots inside an inch it is a tackdriver. No one should expect more.

Those are big tacks you use!

quote:

Originally posted by Donald Nelson:

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
If it shoots inside an inch it is a tackdriver. No one should expect more.

Those are big tacks you use!

If a gun actually is shooting a no baloney 1" groups and the head of a thumbtack is 3/8" diameter.....then roughly 90% of the shots from a 30 caliber rifle will hit the tack! That's a tackdriver IMO.....

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by Donald Nelson:

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
If it shoots inside an inch it is a tackdriver. No one should expect more.

Those are big tacks you use!

If a gun actually is shooting a no baloney 1" groups and the head of a thumbtack is 3/8" diameter.....then roughly 67% of the shots from a 30 caliber rifle will hit the tack! That's a tackdriver IMO.....

Well if you look at it that way, but it will just bust the head not drive the tack in!