I have a 30 06 that shoots the Hornday LM ammo 180gr BTSP fairly well, they are claiming 3000fps with this load, I have not chrono'd it yet. Can anyone tell me what powder they are using with this load? Would they use a Magnum primer for it?

thanks for any help that you can give,

Enhanced ammo has a special powder and its loaded in a specific manner...The powder or the process, is not offered to the public..

With the exception of a few offerings, it cannot be duplicated by a handloader..

Yes, all of it that I have chronographed did what they said it would do..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Enhanced ammo has a special powder and its loaded in a specific manner...The powder or the process, is not offered to the public..

With the exception of a few offerings, it cannot be duplicated by a handloader..

Yes, all of it that I have chronographed did what they said it would do..

Yup.....and further it's not loaded beyond Saami specs!!!!!

quote:

Yes, all of it that I have chronographed did what they said it would do..

That was not the case in the loads that I chronographed.Of the three loads that I tested all fell short of the claimed velocity.

Gentlemen,

The only "enhanced" ammunition I have tested has been the Hornady Light Magnum 150 gr. and the Federal Premium "High Energy" 180 gr. in the .303 British.

The Hornady actually exceeded the published velocity, while the Federal was approx. 100 fps slower than published figures.

That being said, both were very accurate out of my No.4 Mk.2 Lee-Enfield, and both have performed very well on game.

Cheers,

Joel

Thanks for all the info guys, I guess I will have to chrono this load, and compare it to my handloads to see which is better. Will this power/info ever be available to the public?

I chronied 7mm08 (2900 fps), they say 3000, 300 win mag 2880 fps, they say 3120, I can get 3120 from rl22 with 180's in the same gun.

I Chrono the .280 139 gr LM. Out of a 22 in bbl Win M-70 FW is was a full 3100 fps. Unfortunately, that rifle did not like that load. (Shot 150 Federal NP under 1/2" though).

quote:

Originally posted by nyrifleman:
I Chrono the .280 139 gr LM. Out of a 22 in bbl Win M-70 FW is was a full 3100 fps. Unfortunately, that rifle did not like that load. (Shot 150 Federal NP under 1/2" though).

Therein lies the issue.....will it shoot.....and the 100'/sec "improvement" is really iffy even if it does shoot.....

In my 26" barrel Remington Varmint 7-08 the light mag shoots acceptable accuracy 1" and 2980 somthing fps. In my 24" 7x57 the light mag shoot s 1.25" and 2780fps. Both pretty close and pretty accurate. I can get better groups with H/Ls from the 7-08, but nt with the 7x57. I like the stuff. capt david

Hornady claims 2880 fps for their 180 grain BTSP 30-06 load.

I clocked their load at an average velocity of 2780 fps out of my ‘06 which has a 22" barrel. The deviation for 10 shots was +/- 20 fps. (Highest velocity was 2800 and lowest was 2760)

With 180 grain Scirroco over 60 grains of Reloder 22 in a R.P. case and Federal 210m primer I can beat the Hornady numbers by a fair margin with an average velocity of 2840 fps with a deviation of +/- 10 fps

I haven't chrono'ed my trials, but I know that I'm getting significant gains because of flatter trajectories. I usually sight in 3 inches high at 100 yards. Here are the drop figures at 300 yards with various loads:
.30-06
180-gr. Nosler Fed Prem, -6 inches
180-gr. Nosler Fed Prem. HE, -4 inches
165-gr. Hornady IB LM, -2 inches

.308
165-gr. Hornady SPBT, -6.5 inches
165-gr. Hornady SPBT LM, -4.5 inches

I have shot the Hornady Light Mag loads in a 308 The 165 gr Interlock bullet on deer, and the 168 and 180 Match loads at distances to 1000 yards in a sniper rifle. Also the Heavy Magnum loads in a 375 H&H. All shot very good.
You can also get enhanced velocity from the Federal HIGH Energy loads. I have shot them in 308 [several on game] and in the 300 win Mag.
The advantage of the Federal is you can get them with premium bullets. A definate plus in my book.

quote:

Originally posted by Maxx:
I have a 30 06 that shoots the Hornday LM ammo 180gr BTSP fairly well, they are claiming 3000fps with this load, I have not chrono'd it yet. Can anyone tell me what powder they are using with this load? Would they use a Magnum primer for it?

thanks for any help that you can give,

Last time I looked, that 180-grainer was rated at 2880, NOT 3000. It was the 165 that supposedly made 3000. If it actually produces 2880, it would be close to factory-loaded 180-grain 300 H&H Magnum stuff.

The "Light Magnums" or other "enhanced velocity" loadings simply make use of a practice that experienced handloaders have done for years -- using compressed charges of slower-than-typical powders. And like handloaders' products, they sometimes do and sometimes don't live up to claims .

Using compacted charges of slow powders has two velocity advantages. The first is that more powder equals more energy packed into the case, which, if the pressure curve is appropriate, equals more velocity. The second, and perhaps more important from a mass-production commercial point of view, is that heavy charges of slow burning powder tend to give less pressure VARIATION than faster burning powders. This allows the manufacturer to boost the AVERAGE pressure without having occasional individual rounds exceed the SAAMI MAXIMUM pressure -- hence the average velocity can be raised without "exceeding" the maximum pressure.

To the degree that the manufacturers can do what the handloaders can't, it is due to some proprietary methods of compressing power charges that go beyond "trickle through a drop tube and seat the bullet until the case deforms" method that handloaders have to rely on. The manufacturers of course also have access to some sophisticated pressure measuring devices, which handloaders don't.

It is not uncommon for handloaders to equal or exceed the "enhanced" loadings of some factories, but then a handloader is only working with, typically, a single rifle in a given caliber, and mass-produced ammunition has to work in any rifle so chambered. The handloader is also unconstained by the ugly knowledge of what pressure his loads are actually running

By the way, ever picked up a standard factory centerfire round and shaken it next to your (good, if you have one left) ear? Hear that powder rattling around in there? Well, it's no secret that manufacturers tend to use the fastest powder that reasonably meets velocity/pressure specs. This is simply because the faster the powder, the less of it you have to use. Duh. Over the course of several hundred thousand rounds, a few grains of powder per cartridge adds up to a substantial cost savings for the manufacturer. Never mind that the faster powders and lower charge weights tend to result in larger speed variations from shot-to-shot and less than optimum velocity. But what the heck? A few cents saved per box means a better bottom line.

I tried the Light Mags in an accurate Model 700 270 win a few years back but, accuracy was poor. Funny thing is that rifle shoots max handloads w/ great accuracy. Plus I can load more than two boxes for what one of the LM boxes cost (Man, we are in the wrong business).

Good Luck!

Reloader

Maxx - I have chronographed the 180gr. Hornady LM in two 30/06's and achieved 2830fps in a Pre-64 Winchester and 2800fps in a Tikka T3. I may have had two "slow" barrels, "oversized" chambers, or too short of barrels (22" and 22.5") to reach the advertised speed; but I was not impressed with the speed or the accuracy. (I can match the speed and achieve much better accuracy by reloading.) A Federal rep told me if you pulled the bullet out of the case, you could not get it back in with your normal RCBS or Hornady press. He said the "special" powder is "compressed" twice on a special press and the bullet seated. He also claimed that the brass is made "stronger" than normal. I guess I'll find out when I reload the cases. Mags

I agree with Stonecreeks' comments - he's right on according to my experience. For example, one can tap-in 66 grains of Reloader 25 into a standard 30-06 (Win) case; then compress a 180 grain Nosler BT on top of it and get ~3000 fps. Pressure is in the 65,000 psi range, according to the NECO internal ballistics program, and primer pockets loosen-up fairly quickly. Reloader 25 compresses quite nicely, and the load is accurate. If you use this load, work-up to it from below in 1/2 grain increments, and only use a modern first-rate bolt action in perfect condition.

As others mentioned, the manufacturers use powders not available to the public and compress it. Recently read an article that they actually tamp the powder. The larger the hole in relation to the case, the more compressing (tamping) can be done and the better the results. The article also stated this is why you probably won't see enhanced loads in rounds such as the .270 WSM (fat body, relatively small hole).

I have chronied the .270 hornady 140 gr btsp load and it was a full 3100 fps out of my .270 with a 24" barrel. In a 7-08 with a 22" barrel, the 139 hornady light mag load was just over 2800 fps.

-Lou

Here is the article:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3730/is_200210/ai_n9115412

-Lou

It might also get interesting when we got our hands on the new super short cut IMR7828 that Hodgdon is going to be marketing soon. I love 7828 in my weatherbies and now am wondering how much one might cram into the 30-06 based cases!!!!

I may be way off base here but I have herd that they use a duplex load. That being a 1/2 load of slow powder then 1/2 load of fast on top of that. Or the other way around, I dont know but that is the concept. That is why the load is not released.

If you also want to now a little secret...they use thinner brass...

I weighed hornady custom ammo brass in 7x57 and horandy light magnum brass in 7x57 and I want to say there as a consisten 10 grn difference in the cases thus increasing case volume

quote:

Originally posted by kimber222:
I may be way off base here but I have herd that they use a duplex load. That being a 1/2 load of slow powder then 1/2 load of fast on top of that. Or the other way around, I dont know but that is the concept. That is why the load is not released.

I can assure you that this is not true