I'm contemplating on going with a .280 Rem instead of a 7RM for animals such as Black bear and elk...

I would think out to my comfortable shooting distance of 300 yds. to maybe 325 yds max I would say the diff is moot...

Can somebody shed some light...I would like some opinions....

I's moot at most ranges. With factory loads the 7RM is only about 140 FPS faster with the same bullet. And the recoil is a whole lots less

It would be VERY hard to prove any differnce in true terminal performance in the field between the two with bullet weights to 160gr. For me the difference comes in in the cost to shoot it. Additional powder, slightly different barrel life and recoil. Only other thing is most Reminton rifles in 280 are 1 in 10 twist compared to 1 in 9 twist for the 7mm RM allowing it to shoot heavier bullets if that's what you need.

Dang, you're busy! Magnums for distance IMHO

quote:

Originally posted by 510wells:
I's moot at most ranges. With factory loads the 7RM is only about 140 FPS faster with the same bullet. And the recoil is a whole lots less

Yep, that's what I was thinking at the ranges I'm looking at...

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
It would be VERY hard to prove any differnce in true terminal performance in the field between the two with bullet weights to 160gr. For me the difference comes in in the cost to shoot it. Additional powder, slightly different barrel life and recoil. Only other thing is most Reminton rifles in 280 are 1 in 10 twist compared to 1 in 9 twist for the 7mm RM allowing it to shoot heavier bullets if that's what you need.

These were things I was considering as well...

I find the 7RM pleasant to shoot so re-coil didn't play a factor!

I appreciate the reply...

quote:

Originally posted by BNagel:
Dang, you're busy! Magnums for distance IMHO

Yep...
I appreciate the reply!

That's why I bought the 7RM but seems as I don't really need it for the places I'll be hunting and a 280 would suffice...

IMHO 7mm Rem Mag is one of those cartridges that don't make a whole lot of sense. The advantage over the 280 is minimal, the noise, blast, and kick are significantly more. If you need more than the 280, and want to stay 7mm, look towards wby.

quote:

Originally posted by BNagel:
------- Magnums for distance IMHO

That is how I used them,mag for distance,though I don't think it really mattered.

140 to 168 in the 280AI,
160 to 180 in the mag (really liked the 180 berger VLD hunting bullet in the mag)

Thanks guys I really appreciate your responses!

If you're using premium bullets, the 7mm is less of a disadvantage.

I owned a M700 laminated stainless mountain rifle in .280 Remington with a 22 inch barrel. Without checking my loading data (but using W760) I could safely drive the 140gr Nosler Accubonds at 3108fps. 3 shot groups with that load just under 1 inch consistently. Recoil about the same as the .270 shooting the same weight projectiles and a whole lot less than the 7mm Remington magnum.

I didn't think that was too shabby and treading hard on the heals of the 7mm Remington magnum.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
IMHO 7mm Rem Mag is one of those cartridges that don't make a whole lot of sense. The advantage over the 280 is minimal, the noise, blast, and kick are significantly more. If you need more than the 280, and want to stay 7mm, look towards wby.

True, but I can tell you why I bought mine.

I can walk into any store in western Nebraska and find 7mm Mag. Not so with a .280. That, and the extra yardage might help on the long shots.

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:
I'm contemplating on going with a .280 Rem instead of a 7RM for animals such as Black bear and elk...

If you already own an accurate .270 Win then there is no point to either cartridge. I've tried both and neither could displace my .270 Win as my favorite hunting rifle. Neither rifle brought anything more to the table than what I already had.

I don't find there to be a superior hunting bullet selection in the .284 vs .277 to me they are about the same. I didn't find either rifle to be more accurate or easier to find a hand load for than my .270 Win. Truth be told I was a little disappointing to find all three cartridges so close in performance, I had hoped to find a hands down winner.

If you don't own a .270 Win then I would go with the .280 Rem. Might be a little harder to find ammunition but for the hand loader you don't have that problem. You will usually get one more round in the magazine. Like stated before you will not notice a difference in terminal performance on game animals.

For shots less than 300 yards, go with a 7mm-08. It will end up being a lighter rifle and if you reload, the differences in ballistics against the .280 Rem are negligible.

Go with the 7mm Mag if you plan on shooting consistently over 300 yards.

I think that it is worth considering ammunition availability. I'd take a 280 Rem over a 7mm Mag ANY day...except when I left my ammunition at home! Then I know which I find easier to obtain.

Similar to 6mm Rem vs 243Win. I'd sooner use the 6mm Rem...but I know which I will always - ANYWHERE - find ammunition for!

And unfortunately that is now a major consideration in choosing any calibre if you intend to travel with it. It is often easier (less paperwork) just to take the rifle and then buy the ammunition when you arrive.

I would not consider 7mm-08 for the purpose you specifically enquired about as that is too far removed in performance with the heavier weight bullets from even the 7 x57 let alone the 280 Rem or 7mm Mag.

Ditto the 270 Win. A fine cartridge...but the only heavy weight bullet I can find here in Europe tops out at 155 grains by SAKO.

taylor1, mmaggi, and enfieldspares...

Thank you gentlemen for your contributions I appreciate it very much...

With 16 rifles between my 20 y.o. son and me we have a lot of over-lap and don't mind it as we have rifles and calibers we enjoy taking into the field...They all will kill deader than dead with proper shot placement and selecting the proper constucted bullet for the game and running them at the proper velocites in general...

I sat on this M98 RM for quite some time and really fancy the Mauser-action...Dang hard to sell it as its brand new...

I didn't see needing the 7RM anymore for distances I shoot at and didn't want to spend a whole lot on powder...hehehe

I've decided to go with another cartridge I like...the 7x57mm Mauser...Its affordable to shoot and I wish I never sold one that I let go a year or so ago...It'll have a companion as we have a couple 6.5x55mm rifles already...

I'll have my gunsmith re-barrel to 7x57mm, change bolt, block the mag, and do some other work to get this puppy looking and shooting CHERRY...

Its a rifle I've always wanted to own and now my plans are settled...

And as taylor1 mentioned I have a Rem 700 270W that will shoot LIGHTS out and a commercial-action M98 30-06 that is a CHERRY hunting rifle shooting 150, 165, 180, and if needed 220gr for the big stuff up-close and personal...

If I ever get to hunt Cape Buff I'll be getting a true big bore....hehehe

The 7x57mm gets the nod just because its SWEET and COOL...hehehe

One of those mush haves....

Thanks gang I appreciate talking stories and hanging-out!

Aloha!

Ro

I had a 7rm in a Ruger #1, great rifle, flat shootig W/ 160gr @ 3100fps. It was really for deer & antelope, even though I did take my first elk w/ it. I always wanted a true lt.wt. mountain rifle in the traditional wood stock, ft.wt. bbl. so had a 23"bbl .280 made. It runs 160gr bullets @ 2800fps+ & 140gr @ 3100fps, plenty flat shooting for deer & antelope out to 350yds & still works for elk in a pinch w/ 160grNPs a bit closer. I had the 7rm rechmabered to 7mmDakota. Now that is a long range elk rifle w/ 160grNPs @ 3250fps+. Witht the new 140grTTSSX @ 3400fps, it might be the ultimate +400yd elk rig.

When comaparing any two cases and "normal" pressures, the larger will do better with heavier bullets, assuming the barrel twist is right.

Thus, the advantages of a .300 mag to .30-06 to .308 only make much difference as the bullets get heavier. Ditto the difference between a .280 and 7mm mag. Shoot light for caliber bullets at simular pressures and the differences at normal ranges are trivial in most instances.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
I think that it is worth considering ammunition availability. I'd take a 280 Rem over a 7mm Mag ANY day...except when I left my ammunition at home! Then I know which I find easier to obtain.

This is a very good and valid arguement.

However I've never in my life left ammo home or lost it or remotely come close to needing to buy ammo on a hunt!

quote:

Originally posted by rolltop:

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
I think that it is worth considering ammunition availability. I'd take a 280 Rem over a 7mm Mag ANY day...except when I left my ammunition at home! Then I know which I find easier to obtain.

This is a very good and valid arguement.

However I've never in my life left ammo home or lost it or remotely come close to needing to buy ammo on a hunt!

I actually think this is the wealest argument for any hunting round. Most of my stuff is oddball or wildcat. Never "left my ammo at home". When I pack, I always have rifles, tags, ammo. Everything else can be purchased easily.

The 7 RM can push heavier bullets faster which is a plus for elk. Really no difference for Black bear unless you run into the real monster Blackie then 7 RM plus.

They never had to Re-name the 7 Remington Magnum.. Everyone Knew what it Stood For..
AK

Both rounds are very good.
I prefer the magnum. Just never had a 7 mag that was not accurate.
But at 300 yards there is little difference beetween them.
I find the 7mag recoil to be fairly light myself.
I shoot the 7X57 before either of those now...tj3006

quote:

I actually think this is the wealest argument for any hunting round. Most of my stuff is oddball or wildcat. Never "left my ammo at home". When I pack, I always have rifles, tags, ammo. Everything else can be purchased easily.

I would have agreed with this whole-heartedly until the airline lost my bag with the ammunition in it.

Go Retro......7x64 !!!

Late-Bloomer,

Great choice with the 7x57. Some believe it's the greatest cartridge ever. You can't go wrong with it.

Good luck & be well.

Problem in Great Britain is that some of the best shooting is on islands. Which means ferries or 'planes.

Or to Scotland trains.

Now that USED to be OK but many of these whilst still happy with the rifle are not happy with the ammunition. Or motors cars that run on LPG. So they won't take the ammunition.

Same with the Eurostar train between Britain and mainland Europe. Rifles are OK...but ammunition not at all.

The smae on some of the tunnels on our motorways such as the Mersey Tunnel and the Dartford Tunnel. NO "explosives"!

It is totally illogical and it won't explode we all know. And as they make the rules that is it.

So I'll take the weapon and make a telephone call beforehand to ask what ammunition a nearby shop carries. That way I can buy the same and zero "at home" with a final check for zero when I arrive.

quote:

Originally posted by CaptMike:

quote:

I actually think this is the wealest argument for any hunting round. Most of my stuff is oddball or wildcat. Never "left my ammo at home". When I pack, I always have rifles, tags, ammo. Everything else can be purchased easily.

I would have agreed with this whole-heartedly until the airline lost my bag with the ammunition in it.

I'm sure it can happen, I worry everytime I fly, but it just hasn't (knock on wood). Then again they could lose the rifle as well. I refuse to shoot a caliber because I may or may not be able to find "factory" ammo for it. That's just me though. FWIW, I always pack a 9rd ammo wallet in w/ my rifle. Yes it probably violates some airline rules, but I really don't care. That way if they lose my ammo/cloths, I have at least some ammo for the hunt.
Another thing you can do if you are paranoid about ammo not making your destination is UPS some to your final or to the PH or wherever yo ucan get to it.

I wouldn't buy a big 7 if I wanted to shoot 140gr bullets. Now 160's and 175's at distance are a different thing. Then the 7RM starts to shine.
FWIW, I have both of them and like them both.

I've killed a couple of tons of elk with a .280 Rem flinging 150 NP's right at 3K fps. NEVER had to trail a one of them and seldom required more than one shot through the lungs.

The area I hunt is far more open shots than timber. My average shots are in the 300-350 range. Yet the two eighty has never failed me.

I think this is an "either...or" sort of deal. Take your pick and it will work.

FN in MT

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
IMHO 7mm Rem Mag is one of those cartridges that don't make a whole lot of sense. The advantage over the 280 is minimal, the noise, blast, and kick are significantly more. If you need more than the 280, and want to stay 7mm, look towards wby.

BUT, the 280 never caught on commercially, and the 7 Mag. has always sold like hotcakes! So it does make marketing sense.

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
IMHO 7mm Rem Mag is one of those cartridges that don't make a whole lot of sense. The advantage over the 280 is minimal, the noise, blast, and kick are significantly more. If you need more than the 280, and want to stay 7mm, look towards wby.

BUT, the 280 never caught on commercially, and the 7 Mag. has always sold like hotcakes! So it does make marketing sense.

Yep, A classi Remington marketing mistake. Instead of loading it upto 270wun pressures, they kept it mild for use in their semiautos. So the &RM was brought out to compete w/ the 270win. All they had to do was introduce the 280 properly & the 270 would likely never have gotten the lion's share.

quote:

If you need more than the 280, and want to stay 7mm, look towards wby.

The 7mmwby offers very little over the 7mmremmag,especially when using handloads in both.If you want more in a 7mm,consider the 7mmstw or 7mmultramag.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
IMHO 7mm Rem Mag is one of those cartridges that don't make a whole lot of sense. The advantage over the 280 is minimal, the noise, blast, and kick are significantly more. If you need more than the 280, and want to stay 7mm, look towards wby.

BUT, the 280 never caught on commercially, and the 7 Mag. has always sold like hotcakes! So it does make marketing sense.

Yep, A classi Remington marketing mistake. Instead of loading it upto 270wun pressures, they kept it mild for use in their semiautos. So the &RM was brought out to compete w/ the 270win. All they had to do was introduce the 280 properly & the 270 would likely never have gotten the lion's share.

I'll be running handloads in a bolt-action so all is GOLDEN...

Thanks folks!

I've often wondered if the Aggregate Sales of the the 7mm Rem. Mag were Higher in the West or in the East over it's Existence..
AK

quote:

Originally posted by akrange:
I've often wondered if the Aggregate Sales of the the 7mm Rem. Mag were Higher in the West or in the East over it's Existence..
AK

I'm just guessing, but when I lived in Northern Alberta it seemed like everyone I knew had a 7mmRM. 160 grain Partitions have accounted for a lot of mule deer and elk out there. When I moved back east, seemed to me most everyone had either a 30-06 or a .308.

I live in a large city Atlanta, 5+ years ago I had a 280 custom that would not shoot, the gunsmith advised me to get some factory ammo and try it before returning that rifle. None of the local gun stores, walmart, or Academy had 280 factory ammo. Bass Pro had ammo but Remington 140 corelock. Any of these stores had several different 7 rem mag ammo. I have a stock m700 lss that I bought as a rainy day rifle but it has turned out to be a "good luck" rifle so I carry it a lot, too bad it wasn't a 30'06.

what's wrong with 140gr core lokt? Oughta be good stuff in a .280 for hunting deer sized stuff.

Its amazing how people say the magnum is set for the heavy bullets and long range. Lets look at data.

280 Reming Barnes TSX 175 gr 2,636 FPS

7mm Rem Mag Barnes TSX 175 gr TSX 2,757 FPS.

(loads taken from Barnes reloading manual #4 both using 24" bbl)

Thats a whopping 125 fps. At 400 yds (200 yd zero), thats a 2" difference on a 2.5 foot drop

Those be the facts. Yes, the 7mm Mag is immensely popular, mostly due to its introduction in the magnumitus boom of the 60's

And for those that doubt the WBY mag, it throws that same 175 gr bullet out at 3000 FPS. And no, the WBY is not the penultimate, but in my opinion, is the next step after the 280 if you want the noise and recoil, you might as well get something for it.

If you want 7 mag performance with 150 gr bullets, and want abundant factory ammo, look seriously at a 270 win.