Hey all,
Ok heres the situation. I am going to be hunting whitetail deer in South Texas this Christmas break. I think there is a chance at a really nice one. I am using a 7mm mag. It is my first and all purpose gun. I am young-18. Right now I am shooting Remington Core-Lokt factory 150 grains. I am disappointed with the accuracy so far. I think they could be a lot better. I am wanting to switch and resight in my gun and stick to that bullet. Someday I would love to play around and reload, but not now. I can only buy factory ammo. I am leaning toward Federal Premium Nosler 160 partition. I have several questions though. Are these accurate? The gun is a Remington 700 BDL SS. Does anyone have a particular brand that they know shoots well out of Remington Guns? I would like to try it if so. Another thing, will the partitions have a slower kill time since they may blow through without penetrating much, or is this not something to worry about? Thanks for the help and the recommendations, Nathan

Hey Nathan,

best wishes for your hunting, post pics of the deer when you get it.

First off, what do you consider good accuracy? Keep in mind that it is a hunting rifle. Are you shooting it off-hand or from a rest (makes a world of difference in knowing if it is the rifle that is innacurate)? And how long have you been shooting?

I just shot my first 1/2" group the other day. (from a rest of course) That is very good for me. I am not a bad shot, just don't normally get groups like that. But then again I haven't been shooting rifles really except for the last 3 or maybe 4 years. There are guys here that can outshoot me easily, without trying!

I am just trying to put it in perspective for you. Acceptable accuracy for many hunters is 3 shots into under 2" at 100yds.

As far as ammo. I am the most unsuccessful hunter in the world (3rd year of hunting and empty handed again). So can't tell you about certain bullets on game. I can tell you that saying that one bullet or load will work good in your particular gun is impossible without trying. Identical guns made side by side can shoot differently, it is just the fun of the gun. :-) But it is definitely worth trying different loads to see what you like better.

I would go to the 160g bullets, or even try 175's, you may have a barrel that likes heavier bullets. the nosler's you mentioned have a good rep, and there are any number of other loading out there.

Personally what I would do if I didn't load and was looking at this (because I don't like to spend too much on loaded ammo). I would buy an inexpensive box of ammo in both 160 and 175 grain loads. Say remington corelok (there is an african brand I use in my 06 that is good inexpensive ammo but I can't remember the name). Shoot them in your gun, first the 160's. then after cleaning and cooling etc. the 175's. (don't need to use the whole boxes). Don't adjust your sites, just aim the same spot every time and see how they group. If it looks like it prefers a particular weight, sight it for that weight. then by a premium load in that weight if you like, shoot a 3 shot group to make sure same point of impact, and away you go. (of course make adjustments if not same point of impact).

hope all that helps you some.

Red

I don't shoot a lot a factory ammo. Only in the first few shots in a new or new to me gun.
However, I have had very good results with the Winchester factory stuff you find at Wal-Mart.
Less than 1 " @100 yds from a bench with a 7-08 and 7 Rem Mag. Less than 1.5" with a 30-06. It's not very expensive and there is always a Wal-Mart close by.
I used the 150 grain with the 7 Rem Mag. From what I have read the South Texas deer are not huge in weight. The 150 grain should do just fine.

The 7mm Mag. is an excellent cartridge. I just killed a 700-pound elk with mine, a Ruger No. 1. 1 shot, 175 grain Nosler in front of 70 grains of IMR 7828, MV 3050 FPS. The Nosler Partition bullets are designed so the front end literally explodes inside the animal, while the rear portion continues to penetrate and usually goes completely through! Some people have alleged that the Nosler often "just penetrated", and didn't expand! This is B.S.! How do they know?? The bullet is long-gone off past the next county! No-one has ever produced a fired Nosler Partition bullet that went through an animal without expanding! There are other good premium bullets, but NONE ARE BETTER in the way they kill game than the Nosler Partition Jacket bullet!! I have been using them for 40 years, and never lost any animal I shot with one, and that includes bears in Alaska!!

Nosler has just introduced a new bullet, the Accubond, that will be a superb deer killer too! But I don't think this is yet available in factory ammo. At least, not that I know of. This bullet will also be accurate!!

Now, as to your accuracy problem. I'd try that Federal 160 Nosler load. No-one can tell you how a particular factory load (or any other load, for that matter), is going to shoot in YOUR rifle, because all rifles, like all people, are individuals! You have to shoot it to find out what is going to happen.

I have had good accuracy results with Nosler bullets, however, but some people haven't! Keep trying different ammo 'til you find a load that shoots to your satisfaction, then buy a quantity of THAT LOAD IN THE SAME LOT NUMBER, because ammo varies from one lot to the next, and you don't want to burn out your barrel by having to look for a good load each year!

If you store your ammo in G.I. .50 cal. ammo cans in a cool, dry place, it will outlast you! I have shot .45 ACP ball ammo made in 1917, and it was still up to specs!!

I recommend heavier, slower loads for deer, since the lighter, faster loads like the 140 grainers ruin more meat! (The 7 Mag. can tear up a lot of meat! Try to get a broadside shot, and put your bullet through the ribs/lungs BEHIND the shoulders!

Good Luck! May St. Hubert bless you with a fine buck!!

[ 11-19-2003, 15:49: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

My Model 70 in 7mm mag, shoot's the best with Hornady Custom.

If you can find them in your area i'd give the hornady custom round a try. Although I reload I have never had a 7 mag that wouldn't shoot the 139 gr. well. You could also try their heavy mag load in the 140 SST. I've been to Texas twice, killed 4 decent bucks with the 139 hand load. All 4 were neck shots and their noses hit the dirt before their butts did. Dead.....right now...not even a quiver. otherwise IMHO 139 or 140 in a 7 mag is all you need for whitetails.

[ 11-19-2003, 16:39: Message edited by: lofter ]

Nathan, I'd agree with the posters that said their 7Mags worked well with the 154gr. Hornady bullets, the one(model 70 XTR) that I sold to a buddy of mine would put them in a 1/2" group(3 shots)100yds. with a load of 62grs. IMR4831, If you can get ahold of their custom loaded 154SSTs, they should work really well for you. J

Nathan, for your info, the first rifle I ever bought myself was a used Sako 7mm Remington Magnum shortly after my 19th birthday in 1985. You made a good choice, in my opinion.

I've never been to Texas but I understand deer there are quite small. This means that pretty well any decent bullet should do the job and put one down. Therefore, I would choose your load primarily on the basis of accuracy and consistency. If you were talking about bigger animals like elk there might be other considerations, but probably not for small southern deer. However, the Federal load with the 160-grain Partition you're considering would really be the greatest single load for use on all game in North America with that rifle -- provided that it shoots well. If it works out, don't look any further.

As everyone above has noted, each rifle is an individual, and ammo that works with beautiful accuracy in one rifle may do terrible things when used in another. Therefore, I'd suggest you try different loads. I'm not a huge user of factory ammo, but over the years I've talked to many people who use it regularly, and I've seen what it can do on paper. There are definitely some brands that seem to to be more universally accurate than others -- and I'd start my search with them.

The factory ammo that seems to give the best accuracy is (as noted) the Hornady Custom brand. If you can find a box of that stuff at your local store, that's probably the first place to start. Winchester factory stuff also has a good reputation in its "Supreme" loadings. In fact, the Supreme loading with the Ballistic Silvertip is a consistent winner in the accuracy sweepstakes, so I'd give that a try, too.

I'd be highly surprised if one of the above loads doesn't work out. If that's the case, you should look to the rifle/bedding/scope to see if there's a problem. (It could be your shooting technique, too. It took me years before I could shoot that Sako properly, I'm not ashamed to admit.)

Let us know how it all works out!

What kind of groups are you getting with the Remington load?
I've used the Partition bullets on both small and large animals. They always perform great!

rimshot Blue Collar Shooter Magazine

Most of the time poor accuracy is caused by something being loose like the scope mounts or the stock screws. Other times it's the bedding or maybe a bad crown. Of course it might be the ammo or barrel fouling.

Check the screws, clean the barrel and buy a different kind of ammo. I would try Winchester Powerpoints.

I would echo the others replies. There may be something like a bedding or trigger problem. Also you can get the hornady custom in an interbond now if that suits you. They should be a fantastic, accurate deer bullet.

Nathan; I sight-in lots of SS Rem 7Mags every year. I've always able to depend on the Federal 150gr Nosler BT's to give me the best groups, with the 150gr soft points running second.

Where in Texas are you?

Thanks for the help everyone!! I doubt it is a stock or screw problem, I just think that the bullets are not very consistently made-they seem cheap compared to Federal and Winchester!! The bad accuracy I was referring to was shot at about 150 yards. I was shooting a 2x4. I am a pretty good shot, so there is some human error but probably not too much. The issue was that at that distance, the bullet hit low about 3-4" and right about 1". The wind was blowing pretty good from my left to my right which I guess accounts for the movement right. But why is is sooo low? I think I will switch out to the Federal Nosler 160 Partition and try the 150 Winchester Silvertips. Thanks again- also I am in Katy TX-west of houston about 30 miles.

Nathan, the accuracy of a rifle is tested by shooting from a bench rest at a paper target. Shoot three to five shots at the same mark, and measure the size of the group. If, for example, you do this at a known distance of 100 yards and the bullets all hit within 2" of each other, that's pretty good for factory ammo. Once you have your rifle/ammo combination shooting groups of this size or smaller, you can adjust your sights to put the group any place on the target.

I suggest that a gun like yours should be adjusted to hit 3 inches high at 100 yards. It will then hit about 3 inches high at 200 also, and about 3 inches low at 300 yards. Then, you can aim right in the middle of a deer's chest region out to about 350 yards, and be confident of hitting it in a vital spot.

For elk, I zero my 7 Mag. with 175-grain Nosler bullets to hit +4 @ 100. It is still +4" @ 200, about dead on @ 300, and -8.5" @ 400 yards. These figures were verified by actual shooting at distances out to 450 yards. I can aim at an elk's shoulder all the way out to 400 yards, and kill them with one shot. However, I usually don't try to shoot anything that is over about 300 yards, max. But I once killed a pretty big caribou at 420 yards with a zero like this.

[ 11-20-2003, 15:49: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

I might be inclined to give the toll free Sierra Hot Line a call. The phone number will be on their website. It's a very knowledgeable group that work there, very helpful also. I'm suggesting this because I saw an online survey about deer lost after being shot, and the major culprit was the 7mm Rem. Mag. It came as quite a surprise. Give it a whirl. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Nathan, the 7mag is a great all purpose round for NA game. THe Rem. 150grCL should do fine for your Whitetail.
You really haven't given the rifle/load a chance by shooting @ a piece of wood, sounds like, from a field position. The only way to test your ammo is by shooting from a steady bench setup. You can practice from field positions, but you need to eliminate some variables. Also, diff. weight bullets & even the same weight bullet in a diff. brand may shoot to a diff. point of impact (POI). As one of the guys said, site in for 2" high @ 100yds to be on @ 225yds & 5" low @ 300. 3" high gets you on @ 275yds @ 6 1/2" low @ 350 (this is from the latest Sierra program). Practice out to 300 if you can & good luck!

I would choose the best shootinn 140's or 139's I could find..Everybody likes to think whitetails are almost Cape buff but they are closer to shootin a big dog... You got plenty of gun just pick a round that it likes and practice!!! The gun can do it out to 1000yds easy but how far can YOU!!!! Find that out and you'll be eatin venison for sure...

SQUEEZE!!!!!!

For factory loads the Fed Prem 165 Sierra BT would be a excellent load as well as the 160 grain Nosler Part for Elk. In my 7mm this is the bullet I use most often. I sight in at 2" high at 100 yards for normal hunting.

[ 12-01-2003, 15:21: Message edited by: Alaska Bush Man ]

Nathan, Sounds like you have a good rifle in a great caliber.
I'd like to try a different tactic here. As several others have said, get yourself to a steady bench rest on a known distance range. You want to have your rifle supported such that you only have to snug it into your shoulder and ease the trigger back, not make constant small adjustments in your hold or aim. Make sure you have protected your hearing and sight before you begin. This will allow you to relax and be consistent from shot to shot. Use extra padding at the shoulder. I know the 7Rem mag is not famous for being a hard kicker, but group shooting will eventually tire you and make you lose your focus. Use a good sight in target. I have used paper plates with sticker dots and magic marker spots in the past, but what you want is something that assists you in aligning the crosshairs of the scope as well as the intersection in the middle. Maybe a diamond shape large enough to see easily but small enough to allow precision aiming.
Assuming you already checked your scope and action screws for tightness, NOW is the time to change loads. Federal premium has a good rep for accuracy, but try the standard loads from Rem, Win, Fed and Hornady, too. My rem 700 in .308 shoots Winchester 180gr power points the best, definitely not a premium load. Hope I haven't been beating a dead horse, but I have seen lots of shooters at the range trying to get good groups over a piece of firewood, adjusting their sights after every shot, going home mad, or worse, satisfied with that last shot, that just happened to land where they wanted it. Good Luck with the hunt. Mike.

Nathan. You have taken the first step of success- That of asking for help from those with a little more experience. All of the above advice will help you succeed in your quest. I would now like to add one more step.
After you have found the ammo that you feel confident in giving you accuracy from the bench begin to practice hitting the bull one shot at a time. Most all hunting depends on the first shot from a cold barrel aimed with a tired eye trigger pulled by a frozen nub at the end of your hand.
Practice in the real world. Get away from the bench and into the bush. REMEMBER. THIS IS AFTER YOU HAVE SIGHTED IN AND ARE SURE OF YOUR AMMO SELECTION. Practice from real shooting positions one shot at a time. Wait for the barrel to cool and do it all again. Sit still for at least 30 minutes then shoot at your selected target as if it was the Monster you are after. Run up the hill kneel and shoot your target. The real world is another step from the bench. Be sure to enjoy every minute and do it now. Don't wait untill running up the hill is more dangerous than being in the woods on opening day.
Frank
My favorite factory is the Hornady.

[ 12-02-2003, 08:04: Message edited by: Frank Martinez ]

Cal sibley said:

quote:

---

I'm suggesting this because I saw an online survey about deer lost after being shot, and the major culprit was the 7mm Rem. Mag.

---

I suspect the "major culprit" was the shooter, NOT the cartridge! If you can't kill a deer with the 7 Mag., it's NOT the gun's fault!!

First of all, quit shooting Remington ammo. I had your exact experiance on the range this past weekend with a fellow shooters M 700.

He too was shooting 150 gr Core Lokts. I took 3 of my 175 gr Hornadys and put them in a 3/4 ".

Second shoot Federal's with any Sierra, or Nosler bullet or get some Hornady Custom ammo.

Nathan,

I second eldeguello's post of 11/20.

Read it carefully and follow exactly. You'll soon be able to choose which eye to hit the deer in.

You don't "need" the 175gr, or even the 160, to kill the typical Texas (or many other) Whitetail.

Just try several and use the one you like best. That will give you confidence, which helps a lot in the field.

Wow thanks again, it seems this post comes back to life again and again. Ok I have a picture to share with you of the 160 Nosler Partition @ 100 yards. I shot this at the range here in Katy TX, the american shooting center.



What do you all think about this accuracy? I guess this is around a one inch group or so. The three on the left. The other one low and the one to the right were already there. I am more pleased now, however I need to move the group to the left and up a little which will be done when I get home from college again. Thanks for the advice again. Nathan

Congratulations. If that is a typical target you will have venison and a Texas trophy in the freezer soon.
Frank