I would be interested in hearing what owners of this caliber think of it.

Compared to a 338 Win Mag, it's the same as comparing a 35 Whelen to 338/06, plus 200 FPS.

KB

22wrf With 250 gr bullets the 358N performs much like a 375H&H on elk,moose and bears. You will seldom recover a bullet (they usually pass right through) but you will recover your animal just a few yards from where you shot it.I would suggest you leave the lighter 200 and 225 gr bullets to the smaller 35 cal cartridges. These bullets will open up violently at speeds the big Swede is capable of. If you must use a lighter bullet I would suggest either the 225 Barnes TSX or the 225 Partition. I've always found a near max load of IMR 4350 and a 250 gr bullet to be best. Hope this helps.

When I get another magnum donor action, it will be at the top of my short list. Lou

I would love to have one, with a #3 contour 1-12" twist, 23" tube, shooting 270 NorthForks over H-4350. I much prefer my .338WMs using 250 NPs over a .358 cal. and also love 9.3s, but, a "Big Swede" is one I have wanted for many moons and have never had.

Such a rifle at 8.5-9 lbs. all up is about ideal for serious B.C. hunting and I might get one, yet......

22WRF-

I, too have recently grown very fond of this BIG SWEDE this past year and I'll be screwing on a 23" barrel [1-12" twist] running 250gr NP or Accubonds for my next African Safari for PG, [waterbuck, Wildebeest, Zebra, and Oryx on the list of wants]...

Also, I'm building this to hunt Brown Bears for a trip I'd like to do some day to visit our friends in Canada...

From all accounts I've read here and abroad many echo and reflect the words of "snowman" here! And that's what I'm planning this build for and I'll be trying to run a near max load of IMR 4350 250 grain premium...

I have a M98 7RM that has had only 30 rounds down the tube...and everytime that I look at it....it cries... make me that BIG SWEDE...Yesterday I gave her the ole big NOD...

358 Norma Magnum she'll be...

Just aiming to please her...

All the best!

Aloha!

Ro

It is obsolete. If you're being offered one to buy at a good price buy it. It is a fine cartridge other than being obsolete.

Like many good cartridges of the past that are no longer current availability is a thing that must be taken into consideration.

It is also probably BETTER than the overblown American equivalent just as 308 Norma Magnum is probably better than either the Winchester or Weatherby (AND Holland and Holland) 30 Magnums.

If you are thinking of having a rifle chambered as a "bespoke" or "custom" project don't bother. In ten years I doubt that the cartridges will be available.

Get a 375 H & H. It is more versatile AND legal in Africa should you ever go there. Plus ammunition will always be availbale.

Obsolete my ass. I suppose you could say the same thing about the 375 H&H with its sloping shoulders and belt. If performance ever becomes obsolete then we all might as well pack up and go home.
You can get an honest 2850 fps w/250 Nosler Partition and 3000 with a 225 Accubond w/23" bbl.
If one equates popularity w/value then one could argue that the Norma is obsolete. Personally I've never thought much of public taste in anything worthwhile.
just my .02
sbsmith

i don't understand how one can call any certain cartridge,..."obsolete"..... you pull the trigger, the gun goes boom and the game drops dead....how can one dead be obsolete and one not. there isn't a newer version of dead, is there?
it may have gone out of popularity a bit, but if it can still be reloaded, how can it be obsolete?

The reason I inquire is because I am drawn to this one cartridge for North America concept.

I could hunt whitetails all the way up to Brownies with a .358 and not feel overgunned or undergunned.

And then I can get rid of all of my other rifles that just sit there.

quote:

Originally posted by sbsmith:
Obsolete my ass. I suppose you could say the same thing about the 375 H&H with its sloping shoulders and belt. If performance ever becomes obsolete then we all might as well pack up and go home.
You can get an honest 2850 fps w/250 Nosler Partition and 3000 with a 225 Accubond w/23" bbl.
If one equates popularity w/value then one could argue that the Norma is obsolete. Personally I've never thought much of public taste in anything worthwhile.
just my .02
sbsmith

Amen!!

Perhaps the term moribund would have been a better choice than obsolete.

.358 Norma???

You must mean the .358 HCR

http://forums.accuratereloadin...3221043/m/1011087901

quote:

Obsolete my ass. I suppose you could say the same thing about the 375 H&H with its sloping shoulders and belt.

Obsolete - in the same way as the 275 Holland & Holland - as in no longer readily available in more than an extremely limited distribution from more than one manufacturer.

375 H & H is available in most well stocked ammunition sections of any gun shop where large game may be found AND from several manufacturers.

Moribund may have as another posted put it been better.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
The reason I inquire is because I am drawn to this one cartridge for North America concept.

You just described the .338 Win Mag, or the .338-06.

If one was to seriously decide he needed the immense power of the big Swede, he'd be advised to look closely at the .375 Ruger.

'Get rid of the rest of your rifles' - strong statement, or maybe just a joke. As far as using one gun for deer thru brownies - probably a dozen cartridges that would do just fine. Opinions are good; 243 or 6mm rem, 270 or 280, 338 or 340, Ford or Chevy, etc. Real world scenarios, one is good as the other. I've been too impulsive before, so think on it. Norma loads 250 Oryx & 250 A-Frame.

I have one, built on a Ruger LH action. Loaded with 280 grains Swift, its a dream. Also 225 grains Barnes is a good choice. It is not obsolete whatsoever.

"If one was to seriously decide he needed the immense power of the big Swede, he'd be advised to look closely at the .375 Ruger."

I thought about that, but would feel too overgunned for whitetail deer with the .375 Ruger.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
"If one was to seriously decide he needed the immense power of the big Swede, he'd be advised to look closely at the .375 Ruger."

I thought about that, but would feel too overgunned for whitetail deer with the .375 Ruger.

Good idea! Neck down the 375 Booger to 358. I wonder how it would compare to the 358 STA?

2560 f/s with 280 grains Swift is easy obtainable with powders just a tad slower than Norma 204. If you use Norma MRP (Rel. 22) and a drop tube you can get 80 grains with no compressed load beneath a 280 grains, but I haven't fired that load. Maybe quickload can give the answer. Anyway, who needs a 375/358 Ruger with velocities like 2560.

22WRF, here in the west of Norway, the 358 Norma enjoys a small but growing following. Being on the stout side for Norwegian red deer, it has given me clean kills with Hornady 250 grs SPs at ca 2600 fps. You have to hit, though, the deer I missed just ran off paying no respect whatsoever to magnum power.

338 cases will work, but stay away from nickeled ones, they crack on sizing.

This year I will switch to bonded core Norma Oryx bullets of the same weights as the Hornadys. I believe the advice to stick to heavier bullets is a sound one, particularly if we are talking conventional non-bonded bullets. Oryx bullets have given sterling service in my 30-06, so I am looking forward to seeing their performance in 358.

Also, I am going moose hunting this year, so there is no question about which rifle and cartridge I will bring afield.

Good luck with the rifle and round of your choice, and please post here when the new gun is in house.

Before I make a final decision, does Dakota have a 35 caliber round based on the shortened .404 Jeff case? Are't they basically a nonbelted magnum round with about the same bolt face? Maybe that might be the way to go. A guy could load it down for deer and up for everything else!

If you are looking for a comparable cartridge that is non-belted, consider the 35 Newton. It would certainly qualify as "obsolete" but an incredibly powerful cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by pinotguy:
If you are looking for a comparable cartridge that is non-belted, consider the 35 Newton. It would certainly qualify as "obsolete" but an incredibly powerful cartridge.

The 35-375 Ruger would be close and lots of brass. Or the 35-8x68S.

quote:

The 35-375 Ruger would be close and lots of brass.

I agree.....but the .375 Ruger would be less costly.....all ya gotta do is to shoot some bullets intended for the .375 Winchester at deer....and if necessary you are also capable of serious large and dangerous game.

IMO, necking down the .375 Ruger is only a good move if it's necked all the way to .338 or .308!

The .358 Norma Magnum is a rifleman's chambering!! It is powerful, flat shooting, and a tack-driver!! Norma brass is fantastic and .357 pistol bullets make for some real varmint fun.

what is the correct twist rate for the .358 Norma Mag? Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
what is the correct twist rate for the .358 Norma Mag? Thank you.

Generally 1:12.

I don't own one and quite frankly I don't have any reason to. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't. If you desire it, buy it, use it & you'll love it.

That said, it's a very powerful .358. I would just purchase a .375 bore at that point.

quote:

Originally posted by mmaggi:
That said, it's a very powerful .358. I would just purchase a .375 bore at that point.

With all due respect, I don't understand what you mean by that statement.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Lou:

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
"If one was to seriously decide he needed the immense power of the big Swede, he'd be advised to look closely at the .375 Ruger."

I thought about that, but would feel too overgunned for whitetail deer with the .375 Ruger.

Good idea! Neck down the 375 Booger to 358. I wonder how it would compare to the 358 STA?

.

Now that would be a great project for someone who didn,t have too many projects going .. It would be a pretty great round , and an intelligent wildcat .. A real good winter project for someone in the bush !!!! .


., ,.I like the 358 Norma .Hopefully I will make one on a stainless Ruger .....20 " barrel 12" twist ,,long picatinny rib with express sights and a scout scope ...

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

quote:

Originally posted by mmaggi:
That said, it's a very powerful .358. I would just purchase a .375 bore at that point.

With all due respect, I don't understand what you mean by that statement.

I would just purchase a .375 H&H or .375 Ruger instead of a .358 Norma.

l see as a fundemental flaw of logic the concept that "different" is automatically "better"

"Different" is simply "different"

the 358Norma is "different" from a 338Win Mag.

The two are similar enough that anyone claiming that one is superior to the other on any real world technical basis can properly be accused of sniffing glue OR of having early onset Alzheimers.

On an economic basis brass, dies and reloading bullets are more available (wider selection and lower price) for the 338.

Nowadays people building a 358Norma rifle can be said to be attempting to "reinvent the wheel" the "wheel" in this case being the 338WinMag.

I say again "different" is simply "different"

the 358Norma is an effective cartridge, it does with it's designed to do.

My brother has a really nice one built on an '03 springfield
I've loaded for it and shot it extensively.
He didn't build it, but he got it cheap.
Cheap enough that he doesn't feel bad about the price of Genuine Norma brass for it.

But... It's failure in the market place vs the 338Win is simply historical reality.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
l see as a fundemental flaw of logic the concept that "different" is automatically "better"

"Different" is simply "different"

the 358Norma is "different" from a 338Win Mag.

The two are similar enough that anyone claiming that one is superior to the other on any real world technical basis can properly be accused of sniffing glue OR of having early onset Alzheimers.

On an economic basis brass, dies and reloading bullets are more available (wider selection and lower price) for the 338.

Nowadays people building a 358Norma rifle can be said to be attempting to "reinvent the wheel" the "wheel" in this case being the 338WinMag.

I say again "different" is simply "different"

the 358Norma is an effective cartridge, it does with it's designed to do.

My brother has a really nice one built on an '03 springfield
I've loaded for it and shot it extensively.
He didn't build it, but he got it cheap.
Cheap enough that he doesn't feel bad about the price of Genuine Norma brass for it.

But... It's failure in the market place vs the 338Win is simply historical reality.

AD

Interesting and well said.

I have a Husqvarna in .358 Norma with a 26-inch barrel that weighs about 8 pounds loaded and with the scope. I load 225-grain TSX or 250-grain Nosler partitions for it. With reasonable loads, the Norma brass lasts a long time. The rifle is easy to carry, easy to shoot, accurate, and an excellent killer on caribou- and elk-sized game. It will theoretically kill a bit better than the .338 because it has approximately 10% more frontal area, and has the added advantage of cheap pistol bullets for practice or bullets over 250 grains for maximizing penetration. However, as much as I like my .358 Norma, if I were building a magnum .358 I would likely go to the .358 STA.

.. The 358 Norma is easier to get the higher velocities from than the 338 is . .or you can get the same velocities with less barrel length .....I worked real hard trying to get a consistent 2500 fps from the 338 Win with the 300 gr bullets . I always had too much powder compression and erratic velocities ....The 358 Norma will get 2600 fps with the 300 gr and alot faster powder with less compression , less velocity variation ...2800 fps with the 250 gr bullet .. With most powders you are working the 338 too hard to beat 2700 fps with a 250 gr bullet , and I couldn,t do it with a 22" barrel ..Forget 2800 fps Other than Federal High Energy 250 gr Nosler Partitions factory load .I got 2800 fps from them from a 24" barrel and 2780 fps with the 22" . I remember it was the same velocity as the standard 225 gr factory loads with a 24" barrel .........

No doubt the 100 fps difference and an easier to deal with barrel length prolly won,t make or break a hunt ... And the ballistic efficiency of the 338 bullets will even the velocity's at mid to long range .......That being said I wish the 358 Norma had been the popular round instead of the 338 Win ..

Right now I own 2 .338 W.M., 2 .300 W.M., 2 30-06, 2 .270, 3 8mm Mauser, 1 .308, 1 7mm Mag., 3 mauser actions, and a .223 WSSM.
And I am going to get rid of all of them.
As Alan said, different is different. I want something different. 1 gun that will handle all of North America. And I think the .358 Norma is it, although I think that an even more interesting cartridge would be the .404 Jeffery case shortened to .358 norma length and sized down to take the .358 bullet. I think you would call that a .350 Dakota if there was such a thing, or has been mentioned, the .375 Ruger necked down to .35 caliber.

I haven't had a 358 Norma but I had a 358 STA for a while. The STA is a bit more gun then the Norma, but anyone who has used big 35s knows that they kill out of all proportion to their paper ballistics when properly loaded. The biggest problem with 35s is the lack of tough, heavy for caliber bullets. Given, that has litte application for NA, a 275 - 300 cal. bullet would be nice for brown bear, bison, and possibly moose.

I see that Woodleigh has recently stepped into the 358 market with a new 275 bullet to compliment it's 310 and 340 gr. offerings. Still, most bullet makers either ignor or are going away from making 358 bullets.

Case in point is the 225 TSX. Why not at least give us a 250 - arguably the classic weight for everything from the 35 Whelen up. Also, Nosler dropped the 35 Ballistic Tip and does not offer any 35 in it's new lines like the ETip, the Partition Gold, or the Accubond. That has been the trend with other makers as well.

Perhaps the big 35s aren't obsolete, but it's becoming more and more difficult to develop good loads for them. Meanwhile, literally dozens of new 338 cartridges and components have been developed.

My 338WM & 225 Barnes has been my go to rifle (for bigger then deer) for the last 15 yrs. Recently I got my hands on a MRC 358 Norma. I had been searching for a 358 Norma for a year or so & found a LH MRC. Currently it sits in a fairly nice AI wood, but soon it will be in a Mcmillan. Shooting 250gr NP I think this may very well be my new "go to" rifle!

To me its not about the differences in ballistics between it; the 338 or my 375 H+H......its about the "coolness"

Ratltrap ----- I have shot .358 caliber bullets for years with my two .358 STA's, including every manufacturer in this country that makes the them, even the Kodiaks of the northwest. By far the best of the lot for accuracy and toughness have been the North Forks, with the Barnes a close second. The weight selection of 225, 250 and 270 are enough to cover a huge selection of game. I used the 270's in Africa for plains game and always have them loaded in my rifle when in Big Bear country. My son and I used the 270 weight for Elk until he shot a Bull at 125 yards through the shoulders, then the bullet killed a Cow bedded down unsighted to him 25 yards beyond. The bullet was dug out of the far side of her skull as evidence, and telling us that was too much penetration for Elk. In my opinion the round is superior to the .375 H&H, thus when deciding on a future Buffalo getter I went to the .416 Rem and Rigby. The Norma is a great round, the STA just offers approx. 200 fps more speed along with more energy. Good shooting.