About how far would the range would be for deer and elk with the 303 British be good for and what size of bullet would you use? Would probuly end up using a scope if I were to get it. Will end up reloading for it also.

200 to 250 yds. with a 180gr. bullet 2400fps.JMHO roger

Check the load data here:

http://www.303british.com/

Years ago I purchase his load book and found it to be money well spent while messing with the .303 Brit.

For deer I'd stick with the 150-180 grains. I've had great luck with R15 and the 150 grain Hornadys. The round nose 174 grain Hornadys are hard to beat for looking extra cool and hammering anything out to 200 yrds.

I'm not going to comment on elk since I have no real experience there, but I've read that "in the day" the .303 took lots of African game simply because that's what people had to shoot, and it remains a very popular round in Canada for much the same reason.

I would say that with a stout load you won't have any trouble taking anything you aim at at any reasonable distance. Remember, this round was dropping game long before people realized that anything going less than 3000 fps bounced off animals.

Heavy bullets at moderate velocities flat out work! Have fun and don't forget to enjoy the history of cartridge as you have fun shooting it.

quote:

Originally posted by ned:
Check the load data here:

http://www.303british.com/

Years ago I purchase his load book and found it to be money well spent while messing with the .303 Brit.

For deer I'd stick with the 150-180 grains. I've had great luck with R15 and the 150 grain Hornadys. The round nose 174 grain Hornadys are hard to beat for looking extra cool and hammering anything out to 200 yrds.

I'm not going to comment on elk since I have no real experience there, but I've read that "in the day" the .303 took lots of African game simply because that's what people had to shoot, and it remains a very popular round in Canada for much the same reason.

I would say that with a stout load you won't have any trouble taking anything you aim at at any reasonable distance. Remember, this round was dropping game long before people realized that anything going less than 3000 fps bounced off animals.

Heavy bullets at moderate velocities flat out work! Have fun and don't forget to enjoy the history of cartridge as you have fun shooting it.

More moose have been harvested in Canada with the .303 than all other calibres combined.

quote:

The round nose 174 grain Hornadys are hard to beat for looking extra cool and hammering anything out to 200 yrds.

I have heard this too. I have only shot one beastie with that bullet and it just plain flopped over. Penetration was very good and and internal performance was very good. One shot on one animal does not constitute scientific proof but it confirms what I have been told and have read. I have shot just one Red deer with a speer 180gr round nose at 160m with a muzzle velocity below 2300 and there was nothing wrong with the performance on that deer. Now I am using 180 Highland bullets - because they are cheap - and seem to be getting very good accuracy. At low muzzle velocity, performance on small game is not exactly 'explosive' but they don't argue either. The Lee Enfield in 303 Brit makes for an interesting hunting rifle. It is rugged and reliable and capable of very good accuracy. It does need a little 'training' to operate effectively, 'though. Simply put - work that bolt! It is a battle rifle and works best when worked vigourously. Do not rely on the safety for 'safety'. While the gun cannot fire with the safety engaged, it can get hooked off very easily. And be very careful about cocking the rifle using the cocking piece. If it slips out your fingers before is reaches the 'half-cock', it will fire! It can also fire from 'half-cock' in some guns. My NoI MkI* is like that. As to range - bartsche has answered that one. When I was shooting 180gr Speers, I was loading to 2390fps and this would give me a PBR out 200m (220yds). I only shot one small critter with it at that range.

What is the barrel condition of the one you are interested in, kennedy? They have a perfect scope mount basis but I have seen some rather 'weak' bases fitted. Basis that move and come loose!

This is a robust scope mount and leaves the breach clear and accessable. The rear base is keyed, silver solderd and srewed. The front base has a large curved face od perfect which is screwed and glued.


The rear base has an intergral rear sight milled in that properly matches the front sight (which is adjustable).


Just some ideas.

A firend used a Parker Hale sporterised No4 for ovey twenty years. On deer and also caribou. He never ever needed more than one shot on any animal and always used the 174 grain soft point semi-spitzer bullet that mirrors the standard military load.

Most of his shots were 100 yards or thereabouts. It is a good killer. Beware that the ropund nose 180 grain Speer bullet has poor ballistics and drops like a stone past 150 yards!

The European made 180 grain soft points that have a pointed nose don't do this and are better in every way. Also the 180 grain Speer can have feeding issues from the magazine unless seated quite far out of the case.

In Europe about 41 grains of Vihtavouri N140 or 42 grains of N150 seemed to duplicate factory velocities.

H4895 was useless!

quote:

Beware that the ropund nose 180 grain Speer bullet has poor ballistics and drops like a stone past 150 yards!

They do? That's not the way I remember them. They are not exacly flat shooting but I wouldn't have said the ballistics were poor (BC .328). Poor compaired to a 160gr 284 boat tail spitzer yes (BC .556), but not poor compared to a 55gr 224 bullet (BC .255) If I remember correctly, with a muzzle velocity of 2450fps, a 100m sighting of 50mm high puts that bullet on zero at 165m and 50mm low at 190m. That gives the 180gr RN a point blank range of 210 yds with a 4 inch kill zone. Velocity at 210 yds is 1900fps. I have never loaded those bullets deep so I cannot comment on feeding other than they worked fine for me at max length. I do tend to think the 180gr Speer RN is not a very strong bullet and that the 174gr Hornady RN bullet is better. But the 180gr bullet works pretty well on varmints!

Varget/AR2208 seems to be about the best powder for the 303 Brit with BM2 able to give 2500fps at lower pressure with 180gr bullets. I used to use 150gr Hornady spire points and found them to be accurate enough and slightly flatter shooting but thought the velocity was too high for closer shots - too much damage.

What is the barrel condition of the one you are interested in, kennedy

You know I tried to back and look at the rifle. The guy said why. I said I look before I buy. He said well before you look you have to buy. The hell with him them. so thats as far as I got. Oh well it can't be the only one around. I hope I did the top part right, about not sure how to do it just yet.

I used to pull the military 174gr FMJ and put in the 150gr Sierra SP. This chronographed at 2540fps with the original cordite load and was very effective and accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by kennedy:
About how far would the range would be for deer and elk with the 303 British be good for and what size of bullet would you use? Would probuly end up using a scope if I were to get it. Will end up reloading for it also.

My 303 has the original peep sight - lob sight combination. I hold my shots to 100 yards. Not because of excessive drop or it won't kill further, but cause with my old eyes I need a scope for longer shots.


kennedy,

For my use out to 100 yards, that 174 Hornady will work great. But, I would suggest starting your reloading with 150 and 180 spitzer bullets - Get a good load developed for both and let the rifle tell you which one it likes.

In the book; A Sock in My Stew, By Robin S. Patterson, which is a collection of memories of a deer culler named Dick Morris.
His accountant and Commander of the 1st Canterbury Regiment, Ross Lascelles, who also held a certificate for marksmanship says two interesting things about Dick. One was that in the first year he did Dicks accounts Dick had shot 1,763 deer that year and the second was that Dick could shoot running deer out to 750 yards. Dick used a BSA Lee Enfield manufactured in 1901. It had a peep sight.
As far as I know the above is true and I can heartily recommend the book.

Oldun, that sounds like a hell of a book. I will look it up.
I have a sportered BSA 1917 Mk III* that was very accurate with the 225-grain soft points I used to make when I was into swaging. I got them to about 2150.

I recently purchased an Mk IV* Savage. It was full of cosmoline, but has now been stripped and cleaned. It has a good bore with sharp rifling, although the stock has had a lot of abuse. All of the serial numbers match.

I would appreciate your comments on this: When the trigger is pulled, with no cartridge in the chamber, the bolt handle jumps partway up. Is this normal? I haven't fired the rifle yet. I assume that the bolt will not move up with the pressure of the cartridge when fired. However, I'm uncomfortable with the the bolt doing that.

Also, if the safety is put on, then off, there is slop in the trigger, ie., no spring tension on it until it moves back a way.

I've dissasembled the rifle twice now - however everything is properly in place.

Phil

It is quite normal for the bolt to partly spring up if fired when the chamber is empty. This is a characteristic of the Lee Enfield family. If it worries you, look at the cocking piece and notice the lug that fits into the cutout in the rear of the bolt. That lug prevents the rotation of the bolt when the firing pin falls.

The operation of the safety pushes the sear of the cocking piece slightly down and - depending on the individual rifle - disengages the sear itself from contact with the trigger. Again, perfectly normal.

KimW9,

Thanks for your reply! For years I wasn't interested in a lee-enfield, however now I'm looking forward to shooting this rifle. So far it has been an interesting project. Will be doing some load development for it.

Phil

quote:

One was that in the first year he did Dicks accounts Dick had shot 1,763 deer that year and the second was that Dick could shoot running deer out to 750 yards. Dick used a BSA Lee Enfield manufactured in 1901. It had a peep sight.

1,763 deer in one year! Holy Cow! That's five deer per day every day! (Assuming he shot only four a day occasionally). I am curious about the 1901 Lee Enfield with peep sights. It must have been a sporter with custom sights. I would assume the peep sights were of the folding type fitted on the butt socket. I am having trouble with the running deer at 750yds, 'though.

Anybody heard of GOLDEN STATE ARMS? Thats what make the gun is according to the guy that was there. But from a distance it looks like an enfield. Its still a 303 round, What could you tell me about this rifle.

quote:

The Santa Fe Division of the Golden State Arms Corporation located in Pasadena, California imported all HK41s manufactured in 1966.

That's all I could find on the net! Maybe they don't exist anymore?

If you cannot see the bore before buying I would not touch it. There are "303s" and then there are "303s" made up from bits and parts. "No touchee no lookee no payee no buyee"!

Despite our gun laws at least living in the UK we have had about the best of the Enfiled rifle choices as have our friends in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and Africa.

As to gauging the barrel this is from my "Armourer's Handbook":

.303" rod should run through. .307" rod should not run through. .308" should enter the muzzle not more than 1/4". .310" rod should not eneter breech more than 1/2". This is the same for SMLE, No4, 303 Ross.

Can you have a local engineer make up two rods? One at .303" and one at .307"?

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:

quote:

The Santa Fe Division of the Golden State Arms Corporation located in Pasadena, California imported all HK41s manufactured in 1966.

That's all I could find on the net! Maybe they don't exist anymore?

They don't.Not in Pasadena on Colorado blvd. Been gone a long time.

O.K. scope mounts, would an enfield mount fit. The stock is a 2piece and has a clip. When I first seen the gun, it looked like an enfield from a distance. It still kinda does, but I don't know hardly anything about the enfields.

quote:

"No touchee no lookee no payee no buyee"!

Absolutely! A buddy bought a No4 that has hardly been fired. The bore was 'dirty' and he knew that. That dirt turned out to be rust! Well, I got the rust out and this one might shoot but the rust worsend toward the muzzle so I don't really hold out much hope. The point is that these are old rifles and many to most have not stood the rigours of time and neglect well. Mine has quite a bit of rust pitting but has enough bore left to shoot pretty good. It too started out with a new barrel which was neglected. But my understanding is that these old 303's can still shoot pretty good even with worn or rust damaged bores. Mind you, my 22 hornet has a rust damaged bore and I got that to shoot real good!

Something kennedy is saying that puzzles me - he mentions a clip of seven rounds and a two piece stock. I have never heard of No4's being made by Golden State Arms. Can there be another rifle similar to the No4 that takes a clip?

Well just got off the phone with the guy at the store. He said that rifle is an enfield that has been sporterized. And the clip holds 5 rounds, so the rifle could be used for hunting. Thats all he knows, is there a way to tell exactly which enfield it is,maybe serial #.

quote:

is there a way to tell exactly which enfield it is,maybe serial #.

Its usually stamped on the left-hand receiver wall or on the steel band that separates the two stocks behind the action. Normally it is very clearly marked as a No. 4 MkI or II or a No.1 MkIII SMLE - unless removed or rusted etc Other marks behind that normally indicated orign.

quote:

He said that rifle is an enfield that has been sporterized. And the clip holds 5 rounds, so the rifle could be used for hunting.

It is a bastardised Enfiled that is for sure. Worth in the UK? About the equivalent of US $40.

Worth so less in fact at one time gunshops were taking the barrels off these are using them as reinforcing bars in concrete!

Tips to tell "what" Enfield. See if it has a sight mounted on the barrel and a charger loading clip guide that looks as if it has been added later to the action. Like a flattened sausage of metal bent in the shape of a "C". If so it is an SMLE.

If it has a flip up rear sight mounted on the receiver or two "ears" with holes in them in that place and a charger loading clip guide that has its side flat and the same width as the action it is No4.

Would I buy it? No. I think that unless in the rare event that it is made as sporting rifle BSA it is a pile of junk.

You might suggest to the dealer that he take off the barrel and use it as a reinforcing bar in any concrete he has!

Enfieldspares. It does have the sight on the barrel. I don'y know anything about these rifles and I doubt its a BSA. I guess you answered my question about if I should get the rifle, Thanks for the information.

Good internet sites are these:

http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/

There is a whole section on sporterised Lee Enfields. An images of a Santa Fe sporter. Which by a touch of irony might actually one day have a value and a worth!

Hey, kennedy . My appologies for typing in the wrong persons name earlier! I called you "James". I fixed it now. The five round magazine is a standard sporting magazine for the Lee Enfield. Some people don't like the magazine protruding so far. I find ten rounds to be great! New ten round magazines are still available.

Over on the website enfieldspares has given us the state;

quote:

WARNING
The Lee Enfield rifle is extremely addictive. If the readers of these pages are so inclined to go out and purchase one, it will most likely lead to purchasing more. As the author of this page I cannot accept any responsibility. Please continue at your own peril.

But that's nonsense! I only have four! And one of them is chambered in 303-25 and the other is to be bored out to 375 - making it a 303-375.

But after all is said and done, to me it's the condition of the barrel that counts. If it's good then you would be onto something, but being an SMLE .... well, they're not my favourite Lee Enfield. I like the Long Tom (NoI MkI) and the No4 (preferably the MkIII but I'll take what I can get - which doesn't mean I will buy another one, well maybe I will! But that doesn't mean I am addicted - no, not at all! Oh yes, my next one is going to get a 303-22 barrel! But I am not addicted to them! Then the one after that will be turned into a 22LR - I have the barrel for that one already. I might also do a 22 Hornet or a 22 Magnum.)

P.S. The 303-25 is actually a very nice caliber. It would be a toss-up between the 303-6.5 and the 303-25. But since I already have a 303-303, the 303-25 is more practical.

NO problem 303guy