quote:

I personally do not see the point in going to a .33 and then going to a .30 cal bullet weight. I'd stick to 225 and heavier.

This is such a basic statement that it bears repeating.

If you don't like the belt, can't you neck the 9.3 x 62 case down to .338 and get a bit more speed than the .338/06

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
If you don't like the belt, can't you neck the 9.3 x 62 case down to .338 and get a bit more speed than the .338/06

The difference between a .30-06 case and a 9.3 X 62 case is extremely slight. I seriously doubt there'd be even a small difference.

The better thought might be to freebore the chamber.

quote:

The difference between a .30-06 case and a 9.3 X 62 case is extremely slight. I seriously doubt there'd be even a small difference.

Very slight. I thought I had the 338 Hawk in the drawing. I was wrong. So I added the 358 drawing as well. The Hawk is a slighlty improved 9.3x62 case. If you want the most capacity then it is the 340Howell, 338Gibbs or 340PDK. I guess you could use a 9.3x66 case however the net gain will only be between the bullet and case wall.

The 340PDK is 15% larger than the 338-06 in testing in the same barrel I was able to get 125-150 fps.

I wouldn't think about a 338-66 unless I could seat the bullet long enough to capture the full capcity increase. That means around 3.5+".


We talked about the difference in 200Hornady and 200Accubond. In a 3.34" magazine the 200 hornady base will be in the area of the 340PDK shoulder/neck. The accubond due to its longer length using the same OAL the base would be to the left of the 225gr line shown. Actually about halfway along the 338-06 shoulder.

Vapodog had a good idea. A longer throat or better yet longer OAL if you move the bullet forward your net gain is the full area once held by the bullet.

When you blow a case out or move the shoulder forward the case looks much larger. However the net gains are small. It is only the area between the new shoulder lines and the old neck.

quote:

I personally do not see the point in going to a .33 and then going to a .30 cal bullet weight. I'd stick to 225 and heavier.

What is the idea of bringing logic into this???

It really boils down to how hard to you want to hit something. Running the 200gr in a 338-06 at the velocties we are talking vs a 338wmag using a 225accubond. For lack of anythng else I used Federal's velocity for the 338. PBR are the same. Drop at 500yds the wmag has a 1" advantage. Energy is 1900 vs 1500. So yes it hits harder. Would the animal tell the difference?? Doubt it. Going up to a 250 in the 338 the PBR drops to 346yds the drop at 500yds is 6" more and the energy is only 1550. Yes you could play with a 100fps here or there. But in general they will still be the same.

To me a 250 in a 338wmag gets you nothing at 500 yds. Yes it will hit harder closer in. I call the 200 in a 338-06 and 225 in a 338wmag pretty much a wash using less powder an LESS recoil.

If we try to justify the vast majority of the various cartriges out there we would have a hard time. You could do anythng you wanted and cover all your bases with maybe 3. But what fun would that be.

My 26" Douglas air gauged, Rem 700, 338-06 was barreled/chambered and throated for the now long discontued Speer 270 gr Speer bullet and is ~0.600" longer/deeper than a "standard" throated chamber, by a 'smith in Poway Ca near San Diego, Ca...I did all the rest.

The only way I can touch the lands is to use the 250 gr NBT seated out just barely hanging in the case.

I shoot Hornady 200 gr and 225 gr SP,SST's pretty much exclusively because they are the most accurate bullets I have found for my rifle...5 rnd one hole groups for both bullets, "boringly continuous" for all those years, while every other bullet(I have tried almost all the other brands)give 1 1/4 - 2" groups and the Hornady's always do an excellent job.

The 225's are seated to 3.55" which gives ~0.350" jump and I use IMR4320 powder, but well beyond ANY load I have seen in any load manual, publication or calculated in my software programs, and I have kept ALL the published articles I have come across these past umpteen years.

The loads were worked up carefully, chrono 2720 fs on the CA coast. I reloaded several cases 10 times(I've been shooting the same 25 Rem 280 cases I prepped 30-35 odd years ago and I used the 280 case to obtain the longest case length for the highest possible case volume, a 270 case will work just as well) while working up the loads...the dies are adjusted and tuned to give ~0.0015 resize on the overall case and 0.0015-0.002" shoulder setback...fired primers still have a slight curvature on the edges and NO primer cratering.

There is more velocity available and I have worked up loads well over 2800 fs but case longevity drops sharply, primers are flattened to the primer pocket edge and cratered and the bolt gets a bit stiff beyond that figure.

You could say this rifle is a "Weatherby-ized" version of the 338-06 due to the long throat which is why I need more powder to just equal what most 338-06's produce and why it can get a bit more velocity than some without pressure problems.

While I was deciding about the 338-06 I came across many different versions including one called the 338-270 HGT which was a 270 W case with the shoulder blown forward and minimum case taper and the 338-280 RCBS, a massaged 280 case. The 270/280 propaganda fliers gave some pretty impressive numbers and I ALMOST picked the 270 version but decided to stick with the "standard" version and I'm glad that I did.

The 338-06 in ANY of it's variants is an excellent cartridge, but if contemplating doing one today I WOULDN'T...for many reasons experience has taught. There are already several excellent standard 338's including the 338 WM, 330 Dakota and 340 Weatherby, and 325 WSM...or do my own wildcat version using a 2.5" trimmed RUM case for use in a "standard" 3.6" action...you get the extra case capacity in the same size package as the '06 version. You can have all that extra pizzazz and you can always download if you want less performance...keep your cake and have a bit too boot...sort of.

I don't have any qualms about poking ANY NA game including the big bears with it, picking the right bullet for the job first, but I built the rifle specificaly for Elk, way back in the day, and I limit it to that size game or smaller today...anything bigger I have other medicine for.

If you want one...do it...you won't be disappointed.

Luck

My 23" Hart:

200 2900+
215 2790
225 2670

All WW brass, std. chamber, throated for 250s, partial sized brass, IMR4320.

All 1/2 MOA

quote:

How did you like the performance of your 338 WM? if it fitted the bill, get one in a rifle that you like as it seems the Sako was the problem.

Interesting discussion so far and it shows the variation of opionions out there.
The lesser-known wildcats listed are inherently a problem and even a 338-06 is not particularly practical for South Africa.
The 338 Sabi is described as having a case more like a 9.3x62 than a 30-06.
Yes, the Sako 75 is a disappointment. Big, heavy, cumbersome (magnum action), 25" barrel and heavy recoil. The truth is that I carry it only when specifically after kudu or gemsbuck, but know that a slimmer more manageable rifle will also be used for mountain reedbuck, springbuck, etc.
Some of my friends have lovely 300 H&H's and if I could get an accurate one like that, I would jump at it. The 338-06 in similar configuration is just as good. On paper anyway!

My Model 70 in 338/06 has a 24 inch barrel..

I predominantly shoot Hornady bullets in mine.

200 grainers exceed 2900 fps MV with several powders.

225 grainers run between 2750 and 2800 fps depending on powder.

the heaviest bullet I use is the 250 grain Round Nose, that I get an MV of 2650 fps.

Ocassionally I will load 180 grain Ballistic Tips, and those will exceed 3000 fps.

My most common charge any more is 50 grains of IMR 4064. the reason I like that one.. is the MV with that charge using 200, 225, and 250 grain bullets is right on the money at 2500 fps . I am sure pressures are higher with the 250 vs the 200... but the MV and POI of almost the same.. so that allows for some real field flexibility.

Karoo, you don't like the rifle it seems, more than the chambering, but yes, a 338 WM does have some clout - on both ends.

The 300 H&H's I've encountered have often been on longer actions than the 338 WM and 300 WM. You can certainly download the magnums, you can't make the standard chambering a magnum.

If you want just one rifle and see it as you say as a "long term comitment", then ultimately the biggest and "mostest" that you need determines your choice, not the things that you may need most of the time. If that is a 300m shot at a bad angle at wounded kudu bull heading for the next valley, that's what you need to choose for, and it's probably not a 338-06.

I've just bought another 300WM - new M70. It's pretty light and handles fine and the 338WM should be the same (7lb 12oz I think). If you specifically like short actions look at the 300 WSM, or the 325 if you want more bullet weight.

Karoo,

In an earlier post I mentioned my wife shooting up South Africa. We hunted the NW, Kwa Zulu Natal and Limpopo areas and had a great hunt with Spear Safaris.

My wife shot sever animals, 11 I believe and most one shot kills and 5 were 260 to 325 on larger animals i.e. Kudu, zebra and the like.

We used 210 TSX's and Nosler Partitions as her rifle shoots both to the same point of aim at 100 and both bullets and the rifle cartridge worked perfectly.

Now what more could we have asked over a metric caliber or any other for that matter? In fact I used the same gun the next two weeks in Tanzania on my plains game and they loved it just as much as the SA animals. They loved it to death with one shot each. My longest shot in Tanzania was 311 yards-no problems. Game ranged in size from Grants gazelle to White Bearded Wildebeast. Again, what more could we have asked?

I have crunched these numbers many times before and the 30-06 will win every time using 200 grain bullets, so opting for a 338-06 to shoot 200 grain bullets is a fruitless endeavor. The 100 fps gain is easily overcome by the ballistic coefficient resulting in a wash but the terminal performance of the longer bullet favors the 06.

This is the same effect the 338-06 has over the 35 Whelen using 250 grain bullets. The 35 Whelen lingers in obscurity with only it's cult followers to worship it but could be Americas 9.3x62 provided a longer and heavier bullet was offered.

It is counter productive to use a bigger caliber to shoot lighter bullets so the only reason to opt for the larger calibers is to use the heavier bullets.

I have a 24" ER Shaw on 338-06. It will chrono 200 Accubond at 2850 with around 55gr of IMR 4064,RL 15 or Varget. These loads will knock Bull Elk to their knees with one shot. I have also loaded Northfork 200's to over 2800 with this rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Finlander:
I have crunched these numbers many times before and the 30-06 will win every time using 200 grain bullets, so opting for a 338-06 to shoot 200 grain bullets is a fruitless endeavor. The 100 fps gain is easily overcome by the ballistic coefficient resulting in a wash but the terminal performance of the longer bullet favors the 06.

This is the same effect the 338-06 has over the 35 Whelen using 250 grain bullets. The 35 Whelen lingers in obscurity with only it's cult followers to worship it but could be Americas 9.3x62 provided a longer and heavier bullet was offered.

It is counter productive to use a bigger caliber to shoot lighter bullets so the only reason to opt for the larger calibers is to use the heavier bullets.

This is a very good post!

I also have an e.r. shaw 24 inch barrel on a mauser action in 338-06 my load is 60 grains of big game hornady 30-06 brass cci 200 avg 2670 with noz 225 accubond.

This "paper ballistic expertise" is so typical of people who want to tell others how it is supposed to be by the book! But ignore the reality of the actual performance in the real world.

No one is challenging the fact the 30-06, with a 220 grain bullet, is a good killer. Ernest Hemmingway used the combination to shoot more than one Rhino that he wrote about in the GREEN HILLS OF AFRICA. Maybe not the wisest choices especially considering he had a large caliber double for the task.

The ballistic coef. and sectional density of that bullet show that it will be a very good penetrator, thus killer,no question.

By contrast, it is also obvious that a larger caliber, in this case, .338 with a larger diameter and shorter length will have a lower BC and SD again no problem. What people are failing to take into consideration is frontal diameter. And for those who choose to ignore that or deny the fact it makes a differance are missing a significan point of why this cartridge does work so well.

Again a bumble bee is not supposed to be able to fly at least by the "paper statistics" but you get away from the drawing board and they certainly do.

That is why those of us who have actually used this cartridge know for a fact how well it works. Some may choose to use condecending terms such as "cult following" or whatever to describe those of us who "know" the cartridge. Semantics aside the facts are this cartridge hits hard, kills very well-with proper bullets and placement-and does it with less powder, muzzle blast and recoil.

You can compare apples and oranges or red and green apples all you want but the fact still remains this cartridge does work and it works very well, no matter what the drawing board tells you about the bumble bee. Those who deny these facts simply relate to the rest of us they don't have the real "working facts".

I kind of have to agree with 500 on this one.

quote:

I have crunched these numbers many times before and the 30-06 will win every time using 200 grain bullets, so opting for a 338-06 to shoot 200 grain bullets is a fruitless endeavor. The 100 fps gain is easily overcome by the ballistic coefficient resulting in a wash but the terminal performance of the longer bullet favors the 06.

When exactly does the higher BC of the .308 diamter bullet take over? Most of the time it isn't within normal hunting ranges. Besides I was never very good at getting 2700 fps with 200 grain bulles out of my 06 with any accuracy I wanted to hunt with.

By my pencil the .338-06 looses an advantage around 200 yards. However, it stays equal to the .30-06 to at least 350 yards. How many people hammer game with either cartridge outside of those ranges on a regular basis? This is using bullets of the same type, or else I could really skew the data towards one rifle or the other.

500Fan and Taylorce.. I have been following this thread for a while....and your replies above made me smile big!! I have 2 338-06AI's.

One has a 19" barrel and I use it mainly for deer hunting running 180gr accubonds at about 2700fps. That rifle and load has piled up a bunch of deer and one red stag got flattened with it at 250yds. Anything shot with it seldom takes a step.

My other rifle has a 24" barrel and I run 210gr partitions in it at a tad under 2800fps. It has been used on deer and some large boar hogs with the same effect as my short barrel version...

Contrary to what folks say...the 30-06 does not perform the same as the 338-06 with that larger diameter bullet. I have used the 30-06 too and never had the dramatic results I get with my 338-06AI. My 35 Whelen performs like the 338-06. Cult following indeed! An expert I am not, but I know works for me... Far be it from me to tell anyone what he should be shooting. I won't be trading my 338-06's off for a 30-06 anytime soon!!

Z

I have a couple of 06's and the 200 grain partition has proved devastating on elk for me much the same as the 210 is from a 338-06 for others. Were splitting hairs to some degree Regarding results but I'm a believer that bigger bullets kill more efficiently so why handy cap yourself? I do understand the value of frontal area but expansion to over double the original diameter is hard factor to ignore.