I have a Kimber 84M Classic with a nice stock and smooth action. The barrel is worn now and I might get a new one. It will feed 284 factory loads from both sides and they are 2.8" max which is about all the box in a 84M will handle.

I see it as a all terrain deer and similar game rifle. The barrel length might be 23" just for fun.

What say you about the cartridge?

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
What say you about the cartridge?

I think it is simply one of the best cartridges ever concieved. I would LOVE to have one of those Win mod 88's chambered in 284 win, I think it would make an outstanding staking rifle for Elk in the thick timber. Load up some good 160 gn bullets @ 2800-2900 fs and youve got a very versatile round in a lightweight package.

Where do you get your brass for yours?

A grand cartridge that should have never let the 7-08 be born. My 284 was a short action tang safety M77 and I shot the barrl out in it then rebarreled to the 6mm-284. I used it for deer hunting with exclusivly the 145 grain Speer Hotcor bullet. My varmint load used the Speer 115 grain HP. The Winchester brass was excellent and lasted many shots.

Shoulda woulda coulda. I wish they'd have just cut the 9.3x64 to 2.25" and necked down, COL 3.1" long. This is a Winchester afterall. Then no rebate (to speak of) and it would ve so close to the 7mm Rem as to make the WSM a moot point.
How much money do you think they saved avoiding the recutting of the boltface? Same Q for the WSM's. Does it really cost that much more to make a boltface cutter? They already had to make a new mag, follower, I don't know what else, and then ended up making a whole new "CRPF" action around this little rebated round. WTF?
But, back to the original post, it is a nice round in a nice action. I would vote for 24".

Excellent cartridge that deserves to be chambered for alot more,very simular in performance to the 280 rem but usable in a short action.

Great cartridge.

It is a nice cartridge, but don't you already have a Kimber Montana in 7MM WSM? If so, why bother with the 284?

Although I like the 284, I like its wildcat spawn in 25-284, 6.5-284, and 338-284 better. Heck, I have even come to think that the 270 WSM does about everything that a 284 will do and do it a little faster/flatter.

I'd be far more likely to build another 25-284 or 6.5-284, than another straight 284, if I was building another. Of course, I am currently building a couple, but just on a couple of Remington actions that were not being used.

Jeff

quote:

It is a nice cartridge, but don't you already have a Kimber Montana in 7MM WSM? If so, why bother with the 284?

I have a Montana in 270 WSM and thats about the same thing as the 7mm WSM. The thing is that I like the action and stock on the 84M Classic. Right now it's a 260 and it's turned sour. It used to shoot the 95 VMax into 3/4 moa or better but now it's more like one moa or worse. Somehow the cartridge no longer interests me as a hunting round.

Some options for this 84M would be a 220 Swift with a 24" tube or a 243 with a 24" one. I do more varmint hunting than big game anyway. The 260 is really not a good varmint round for around here.

The 284 is more like a big game cartridge to me. I know the 6.5 is fine but I like to hit stuff with the big hammer.

Before any of this happens I may have another 8400 Montana but now that the long actions are coming out I am going to find out what all of its cartridges are. If none of them interest me I will get a 7mm WSM in the Kimber. I have a nice M70 in that cartridge but why not another?

When my Father hunted woodchuck in New England and NY during the 1950s and 1960s, mostly in Connecticut River valley, the Mohawk River valley, and the Lake Champlain valley, he was a big 22-250 and 219 Improved Zipper fan. If the 260 is a suboptimal varmint rifle in your neighborhood, I can't see that a 243 would be a significantly better option, so I'd opt for a 220 Swift or 22-243 Middlestead and a 1-8" twist barrel.

As you know, there are a number of factors that could contribute to the increase in group size in addition to a worn barrel, tighten the screws and install a different scope. If you have access to a bore scope, you might look for throat errosion. If you have an erroded throat, setting the barrel back 20/100" and rechambering it to 6.5-284 might be an opportunity for inexpensive enlightenment as to what an optimized medium hammer 6.5mm can do.

It is hard for me to believe that your 260 barrel is worn out, but if you don't want it, put a price on it and I might buy it from you for scrape. One of the "worn out" 260 barrels that I have bought turned out to be seriously copper fouled, but a session of JB's cured the problem and it shoots OK now. My email address is listed in my 24HCF profile.

Since I can both hunt and shoot, I don't find that a "big hammer" is necessary. But, of course, when I go out to shoot deer, there isn't much hunting involved unless trophies are the target. For meat hunting, I find that anything from a 22-250 with a 60 grain Partition to a 450 Marlin with a 300 grain whatever will do the job equally as well if you shoot them through the lungs.

BTW, I have a BLR in 358 that I had intended to give to an outfitter as a tip for an elk hunt this year, but the deal fell through. If you want/need a 358 big hammer to hunt VT deer with, I'm asking $450 plus actual shipping/insurance to your FFL in the lower 48.

Jeff

My .284 Win.......acquired from a desperate 'soon to be divorced friend' back thirty years ago.
Mauser 98 action setup with a McGowen barrel chambered in .284. Redfield two piece bases/rings and Refield 3 x 9 Widefield all fit nicely into a beautiful black walnut stock. The gun shot much better than I had the ability to back then. Unfortunately while I was away...out of the country my home was burglarized and that went to some poor bastxrd who doesn't know what he got. It had no chamber markings on it so him figuring out the chamber had to be a trick.
I only ever shot factory ammo when I could find it....but the gun was as accurate as any I have ever handled.

My 284 came my way one night when a friend of a friend ect called me up and said he needed money and had a gun for sale if I wanted it. I did not know this person, but after a few phone calls I found out this person was "ok" and needed cash for a devorice thing due in about 24 hours. So I ended up with a never shot Browning Safari with a vari-x 3 the 2.5-8. He asked if $300.00 was too much, and I just handed him the cash and left. About a month later, a friend of this guy calls me and I end up with a Weatherby mark V in 300WBY and a Burris 2-7 scope for the asking price of $325.00. My two best gun deals so far, and only one week apart. My wife was not thrilled, but, she got over it in time. Boy I mis the quiet.

quote:

Originally posted by 260remguy:
....

Although I like the 284, I like its wildcat spawn in 25-284, 6.5-284, and 338-284 better. .....

I'd be far more likely to build another 25-284 or 6.5-284, than another straight 284, if I was building another. .....

Jeff

I'll second Jeff's 6.5-284!

BTW - What cartridge is the Kimber chambered for now?

It is currently a 260, that is why I suggested cutting the barrel back 20/100" and rechambering to 6.5-284 if the throat is worn. I have rechambered several 260 and 6.5x55 barrels to 6.5-284 with very good success. Even a long throated 6.5x55 barrel on a Winchester 70 Fwt evolved into a good shooter in 6.5-284.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by 260remguy:
When my Father hunted woodchuck in New England and NY during the 1950s and 1960s, mostly in Connecticut River valley, the Mohawk River valley, and the Lake Champlain valley, he was a big 22-250 and 219 Improved Zipper fan. If the 260 is a suboptimal varmint rifle in your neighborhood, I can't see that a 243 would be a significantly better option, so I'd opt for a 220 Swift or 22-243 Middlestead and a 1-8" twist barrel.
Jeff

I hunted that area at the same time. I drove from central CT to get there and really had only part of a weekend day to hunt what with work and all. It was common to take nine or so chucks and also to get a shot at a fox or crow. Today the chucks are gone from coyotes and overhunting. The only woodchucks left are in back yards it seems. I used a number of rifles including the 264 WM and 30-06 but most of the shooting was done with the 222R 219 IZ and 243.

The problem with the 260 and similar rounds for varmint hunting is richocets. There are more houses around than ever and today the green people seem to be afield when years ago there was nobody around but some farmer and he was on a tractor. I am the one who bought the 260 though. It seems that whatever reason I got it has faded from my memory. It's just a compromise round or a perfect round for easy shots and those who need a low recoil deer cartridge.

99, how many 284 rounds in the magazine can you close the bolt over?

Brad,

I don't know yet. I have only one 284 round and it feeds from either side. I use a 260 under it to test the left feed. My guess is that the magazine will hold three 284's down maybe more.

That is not my quandry. If I go with a cold weather rifle it should really have the stock cut and the barrel blued. If I go with a varminter the standard LOP will work.

It's between a 24" 243 and a 23" 284 or maybe just waiting. I just got it out of the second safe. This gun is no longer in the going to the range group. Either it gets fixed or something.



It's the one on the right. At present 4-12 AO Leu on it for testing.

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
99, how many 284 rounds in the magazine can you close the bolt over?

Three. I got some new 284 brass and loaded up some test dummies. It will take four easy in the magazine but I can't press them down enough to close the bolt.

The problem is the look of the loaded round. I am just not used to that deep seated a bullet. The Kimber 84M will only take a round about 2.81" long and the bullets I used were the 139 gr Interlocks. They are so deep that it looks strange. Maybe I am just not used to it but it's not artful.

The current decision is to think it over.

284 Winchester= I want one, my gunsmith convinced me of a 280 on the rifle I am building, but I still want one.

An old lever action model 88, thats what I want. I heard they have miserable SOB's for triggers, but I don't care.

I got my two .284's about ten or so years ago when Browning came out with the A-bolt in that caliber. I had one on order at a gunshop in Austin. I happened to find one in Houston in the meantime and bought that one. About a week later the gunshop in Austin called and said that one had come in. So I wound up with two of them. I haven't shot them in years but for some reason I still have them.

My favorite non magnum rifle caliber is the 308 WCF. For ME it is the best choice. I have used it as a competition round as well as a work round for over 25 years.
ANYTHING I can do with a [pick one] 25-06, 270, 284, 280 Rem, 30-06, etc., I can do with a 308.
Having said that there are no flies on those other calibers.
In its day the 284, and the 280 Rem were considered "ballistic perfection" by SEVERAL knowledgeable riflemen. I often flirted with a short actioned bolt rifle in 284. However the practicalibility of the 308 in MY world always won out. All of these are great hunting ropunds, the 308 is just the best for me.

I measured the water capacity of the 284 and compared it to a 7mm-08. Both used new brass and the same bullet was seated to 3.1" COL.

The 284 held 13.9% more water. Using the 1/4th rule on velocity increase 13.9/4 = 3.4% and 3.4% of say 2800 fps is about a 100 fps increase in velocity.

Since a 308 Win will do the same or more over game ranges as compared to a 7mm-08 and not drift or drop a lot different it's also a viable choice for a big game cartridge thats limited to a 3.1" magazine.

The bullet is seated out in the 7mm-08 and looks too far in on the 284 to my taste.

At the moment making it a 243 with a 23 or 24" barrel would solve all of the magazine problems and it would be a neat walking varminter. A Swift would fit too.

I looked at the 84M again last night to see if there is room to make a longer magazine and it could be done but only at the cost of a lot of money. The thing is that this Classic is not all that light anyway for some reason. Maybe it's the nice stock that's heavy.

As the man said above the WSM's in the Montana version don't weigh any differant than this wood stocked Classic.

I cleaned the barrel once more and I will shoot it one more time. The throat is rough now for about 1.5" up and the lands look soft in the mini bore scope.

A 6mm Remington would have the same shoehorn problem in this short short action as the 284. Looks like it's going to be a 243.

I have 2. The first is an H.S. Precision (short action rem 700 with a 23" barrel). The second is the beloved model 88. In the bolt Gun I shoot 120's and 140's with the emphasis on the 120's. It doesn't make me feel so bad about wasting case capacity, because they are shorter. 120 grain ballistic tips or TSX's are awesome deer/antelope or even varment rounds. I do have some 110 TNT's to try though. Many are probably thinking that by using such light bullets I should have a 6.5-284 or 25 or 6mm etc., but then they would be longer and seat deeper.

I still think you should go with the 284...Everyone needs at least one.

How long a cartridge is in the same caliber could be determined by the base to neck/shoulder junction. That would be the point where it would or would not hold a bullet. I am not one who is concerned about bullets intruding into the so called powder space but if the case will not hold a 160 gr bullet in 7mm it's limited in that respect.

The 7mm WSM is 1.856" to that spot and therefore "better" than the 1.885" of the longer 284 case! That says it all to me but what to do about this short short 84M? It's a sweet gun that needs a barrel.

Just a though, if you are set on a .284 w/ 2.8" OAL, you might want to look into shooting 145gr & 160gr Speer GS. They are wuite a bit shorter thana Hornady, Sierra, NP, etc. A good fit for a short .284 IMO.

There is a thread about the best 25 in the small bore page with a link to the 257 DRG. That site claims velocity from this cartridge that are faster than my 25-284 and the 257 DRG appears to be an Improved 25 Souper. If it does what is claimed, it would be a fun walking around varmint rifle with 75 grain VMaxs.

Jeff

260remguy,

Reports on wildcat and improved cartridges are to be taken with a grain of salt. It seems that all one needs to do is to name a cartridge after yourself for all reason to explode.

The book "Wildcat Cartridges" by Wolffe is an expample of this.

I conceed that .25 caliber bullets will dispatch varmints and take larger game. It's just that I am not comfortable with it's takebacks.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
What say you about the cartridge?

I think it is simply one of the best cartridges ever concieved. I would LOVE to have one of those Win mod 88's chambered in 284 win, I think it would make an outstanding staking rifle for Elk in the thick timber. Load up some good 160 gn bullets @ 2800-2900 fs and youve got a very versatile round in a lightweight package.

Where do you get your brass for yours?

I have just such a gun. Ammo is still available from Winchester. It's a very nice rifle, and a terrific cartridge, IMO, but certainly bettered by the 7mm short mags, and approached by the 7/08.

The .284 IMO is a wonderful cartridge designed to be used in the Savage 99, BLR, and some other short action levers and autos...that is where it shines, it gave us a flat shooting caliber capable of duplicating the .280 rem and .270 Win......However, I would rather have a .280 in a bolt gun or better yet a .270....

Ah Ray, a .270, over a .280, that's just blasphemy.