Bigbull,
What is the recoil like with the 330 Dakota compaired to the .338wm, especially with 250 grain bullets. My .338wm doesnt kick me all that hard as I am 6'-2'' and about 230lbs, so my body weight helps alot with perceived recoil from the bench. I have tried a recoil counculator program for the .338wm, 330 Dakota, and the 338/378 and my .338wm generates somthing like 35 or 36 foot/lbs of recoil where as the other two generated acording to the program substantially more say around 55 or 58 foot/lbs. Although I might be off on my numbers.

I have a Remington .300 Ultra that I can't get to shoot. Decision has been made to go to a .338.

I had a .338 W/M a while back and liked it fine. I have no experience or know anyone who owns a .338 Ultra. What are your thoughts/knowledge about the pros and cons betwen them both? I see the printed velocity difference, I am looking for more 'real life' information.

Thanks,

Sam

I suggest that you try to get hold of a sample .338 RUM and test if first at the range before you invest in one.

I must be getting feeble in my middle years, but I simply can't shoot the bigger .338s as as well as I can the old vintage-1958 .338 Win. Mag., which is my preferred .338 caliber cartridge.

AD

I have no experience with the 338 RUM, but the 340 Weatherbee is a terror to shoot. If you can handle the 300RUM you should have no trouble with a 338Win. A 338Win seems like a lot of gun for almost any situation you are likely to encounter.

BIG SAM, I responded to your post over on the Gunsmith forum, but I meant to ask what you've done to try to improve your 300 RUM? If I were going to rebarrel, since the gun is already set up to feed the RUM case, I'd just stick with the RUM in 300 or 338 whichever made you happy. I think they're both good rounds. If you were in Texas I'd have you bring it by the house and we'd try to force that baby to shoot a little better for you.

I have hunted 24 years with the 338 win mag and love it.I use it as my over all big game rifle in North America.I bought a 338-378 weatherby about 3 years ago.I think I have 8 or 9 338 win mags and 2 338-378 weatherbys.The 338-378 weatherbys are awesome for long range but the 338 win mag is fine up to 300 yards.I have shot some deer out to 425 yards.The 338 win mag is in more rifles than the 338 ultra mag and 338-378.The shells are cheaper and it kicks less about like heavy 20 ga dove loads.I have shot 3/4" groups with My stainless Ruger 338 win mag at 200 yards with factory ammo.The 338-378 Weatherby has shot a couple of .25 groups.I let my 11 year old friend shoot the weatherby 338-378 a caribou he accidently shot 2 at 400 yards with one shot.It kicks like a big pussycat with the brake on.You just have to wear muffs to shoot it.I have shot 80 deer with 80 shots from 3 to 425 yards with the 338 win mag.I let a friend borrow one of my 338s .He shot 4 moose with 4 shots .I cant get it back from him.

Let me throw in a pitch for the other .338...the 338-06.

Yes it is a handloading proposition...but it is only about 200 fps slower than the .338 winmag. It doesn't reaarange your shoulder blades every time you squeeze the trigger. Recoil is about the level of a 12 gauge shotgun.
Put a 250 gr barnes x bullet in a .338-06 and you will drop elk like the hammer of Thor. Brass is readily available and you don't have to deal with a belted magnum.
Just a thought...I love mine.

swede

You make some good points about the 338-06. It is a fine cartridge. However I think any handloaded only proposition is less desirable. One of the strengths of the 338 Win is the considerable selection of factory ammo. In fact it is difficult for a handloader to improve on some of the premium factory fare.

You go Swede! I was thinking of bringing up the same point. If one claims the need to reach out a little farther than he thinks the 338/06 shoots, all he need do is raise the POI a couple of inches at 100 yards. The difference in terminal ballistics couldn't be explained by the critter on the other end and the recoil is perceptably more comfortable. Too many of us get wrapped around ft.lbs. of energy because that's easy to quantify. There is a lot more to humane kills than that. The ballistic triplets of the .318 WR, the .330 OKH and the .338/06 will do ALL North American hunting and do it with comfort, style and effectiveness. They also have history on their side, something that nothing Remington invented will every have.

Gentlemen



How about a 333 Jeffery



I think the performance of a 16,2 gram bullet in 850-870 M/S is fine. Basicly this is what the 338 win will do. I would rather take a 338 over a 300, more ompphh and heavier bullets There is a wildcat on the 9,3X64 brenneke necked down to 8,5mm /338



338 wi has the advantage that ammo is factory and can be found in most places. Who has factory loads for 338-06.



Cheers



/ JOHAN

If you go hunting on a trip and loose your ammo you can always buy some 338 win mags but 338-06 are not to be found.You can also get heavy mag loads that put it up to 338 ultra mag energy.The 338 win mag is chambered in so many guns except Remington who just dropped it so their 338 ultra mag will survive.I love my 338 win mags.Its easy to load and does not kick so much you cant stand it.I have shot two of my 338s 300 times in one day.I just put on a past pad and shoot a standing bench off top of the bench with bull bags and a milk crate.I really inproved my field shooting this way.

Actually I don't think the .338 RUM will survive. Remington is cutting models now and soon the bean counters will cut it completely. I would go with the most popular .338 today, the .338 Win. Mag.. Ammo is available everywhere. Lawdog

Another vote for the .338WM. I absolutely love mine. When I bought mine back in 1996 it was hands down my caliber of chioce based on these factors;

<>Versatility in the extream. There are bullet weights from 160 grains up to 300. The .338wm will push a 180 Nosler BT a hair over an honest 3200 FPS making it an excellent long range sheep, antilope, or deer round. The .338wm is superbly suited to hunt any animal from pronghorn to moose and elk. factory loaded ammo is far more readly available for the .338wm as oposed to all other 338 loadings combined.
<>Accuracy. The .338wm is highly regarded as the most accurate of all the .338s as is stated so in numerous loading manuals. Mine is a 100% factory rifle that will shoot bullet weights in my handloads from 180, 200, 225, and 250 consistantly at or below 1.0 MOA for three shots at 100yrds. I have absolute confidence at taking any antlered animal (under the correct condidtions) out to 400 yards with my .338wm, because of its confidence instilling accuracy.
<>Cost. The .338wm is easly the most economical of all the .338s to reload for or to buy factory ammo for.

When it comes right down to it, there are calibers that may equal the .338wm in all in around versatility, accuracy as its one of the easiest to load for belted magnums out there, shear power, and mangageable recoil (my 12ga slug and turkey guns kick far more) but none truely surpass it.

You simply can not go wrong with the .338 Winchester Magnum.

Another vote for the .338WM. I absolutely love mine. When I bought mine back in 1996 it was hands down my caliber of chioce based on these factors;

<>Versatility in the extream. There are bullet weights from 160 grains up to 300. The .338wm will push a 180 Nosler BT a hair over an honest 3200 FPS making it an excellent long range sheep, antilope, or deer round. The .338wm is superbly suited to hunt any animal from pronghorn to moose and elk. factory loaded ammo is far more readly available for the .338wm as oposed to all other 338 loadings combined.
<>Accuracy. The .338wm is highly regarded as the most accurate and easiest to load for obtaining excellent accuracy of all the .338s and is stated so in numerous loading manuals. Mine is a 100% factory rifle that will shoot bullet weights in my handloads from 180, 200, 225, and 250 consistantly at or below 1.0 MOA for three shots at 100yrds. I have absolute confidence at taking any antlered animal (under the correct condidtions) out to 400 yards with my .338wm, because of its confidence instilling accuracy.
<>Cost. The .338wm is easly the most economical of all the .338s to reload for or to buy factory ammo for.

When it comes right down to it, there are calibers that may equal the .338wm in accuracy ,shear power VS. mangageable recoil (my 12ga slug and turkey guns kick far more) but none truely surpass it for excellent all around vercatility.

You simply can not go wrong with the .338 Winchester Magnum.

Weatherby loads factory ammo for the .338-06. I believe PMC did some limited runs also...but I am a dedicated handloader so ammo availability is a non-factor.


swede

Kingfisher,

Many things have been tried, from mechanical metal work to an astonishing array of loads. "Two tears in a bucket, Mother F#*k it!" as they say.

I am ready to go with the .338. The thing that I am reading tells me that since my action was probably a standard type magnum action, I may be best going with a Win Mag. This was a custon gun, not a factory Ultra Mag.

Thanks to everyone for your input.

Cheers,

Sam

I must admit that 338's are one of my favorite calibers for big game. I have owned and taken moose with the 338 WM, 338 Lapua and the 330 Dakota. They have all performed perfectly and no one could want more out of any caliber. They are also I believe at the upper end of the recoil tolerance threshold and cannot be fired accurately by most occasional shooters, pre season practice is a must. With the right bullets they are superb long range killers and the choice of bullets have never been better. I have settled on the Dakota for now and took a moose two years ago with it. I believe that this is the finest 338 that can be chambered in a standard length action, mine is built on a M70 Classic and it has performed exceptionally. The 250 gr bullets will crono at 2950fps out of my 24 1/2" barrel with med pressures in the summer while showing no pressure signs at all in the fall. A better all around big game cartridge for standard length actions cannot be found.
My .02

Yet another vote for the 338-06! For all the same reasons.

I happen to have both the 338 wm in a Ruger 77 tang and the UM in Rem. Stainless with Laminate. The UM is a real jolt even with Factory loads and the WM can be loaded very hot if you are of a mind to do so.
I have killed one bear and several deer with the WM all very clean knock downs but none of which were that far out there. My basic hunting load has been With the Nosler 250 Partition at book loads using 4831. Nothing too terribly startling. I have also beefed those to max just to see the difference and yes they can be very much an eye-opener.
The UM shooting has been with Factory loads which are pretty accurate in my rifle and would handle most of my shooting needs. I don't think I need to test max there but it can't be any worse than the 375 UM or even a hot 458.
I believe that if you are looking for pleasure shooting and a good effective rifle for hunting which can be loaded up to the max. effectivness for anything in NA the WM is the way to go.
You have most certainly got to look at the rifle from an accuracy stand point first which is why I always start with Factory loads to see if I have a rifle that is at least starting out close to accurate. I can them mess with my own loads to improve on that or just to plink and shoot for fun.
Just like the question above, Have you really checked out all the variable to see if it is the loads that are causing your rifle to not shoot tight. Maybe a flinch? Maybe something in the sights. I assume from your statement you went through all that but maybe you missed something simple and you do have an accurate rifle that is waiting to bust out at the range.
Good luck,
Frank

I am a fan of the .34 bore, it's about perfect for all of NA. I have a .338-06 & a .338x74K. If I wanted something a bit diff. on the exist. rifle you have I would also look @ the .330 Dakota. It's very efficient, std. mag. action. Ammo can be bought from Dakota, if you want, but it's a handloaders proposition (BTW, I have never "lost" ot forgotten my ammo on any hunt ).

Big Sam -

I have owned, reloaded and shot both extensively, and the decision is not as easy as those above would like to think. In spite of the caliber designation, the two rounds are quite different...the only problem is that they are both excellent and at the top of their class.

If you are a handloader, the 338 RUM makes mose sense as you can duplicate the 338 Win Mag easily with excellent accuracy...probably better than the Win Mag. Most of the bullet companies now use the RUM exclusively for lab testing because it shoots so accurately over a range of load densities and velocities.

Recoil is subjective, and the RUM is definitely a step up from the 338 Win, but a premium recoil pad and an upright, high position when at the bench will do much to compansate...
besides, you don't need to load up unless you need the power, and if you need the power you have to pay the price in any caliber.

The notion that the 338 RUM is going to disappear is laughable....cutting back on models is a common practice to keep costs down. Folks are buying RUMs like popcorn and want them so much that they are not real picky about the models. Rem will make MORE money with fewer models. From both an internal and external ballistics perspective it is the best of the RUM family, and will shoot circles around the 7MM and 300 RUM without burning up the barrel. Most folks don't know that the Nosler 180 BT does 3550 fps or more in the 338 RUM with 5 different powders, so the barrel burners are left choking in its dust.

Hi Big Sam I do belive you made the right decision . the 338wm will do everything you ask of it and than some .you also will not get the snot kicked out of you every time you pull the trigger mine works fine shoots well also . Bob

Frank; My choice to settle on the 330 Dakota did not come from my dissatisfaction of the 338WM. It actually started while I was using the 338 Lapua. You see I was using a Lapua back in the early 90's before the cartridge was accepted commercially. Prior to that I used a 338WM for years with complete satisfaction and didn't look any further but because our hunting terrain changed and our shooting ranges increased I looked for something a little stronger. The 338 Lapua gave me what I was looking for but at a price! You see I ended up with a heavy rifle with a long bolt throw. This was required since the Lapua like alot of other large cartridges cannot be built on standard/30-06 length action and the longer barrel required to burn all that powder yields a long heavy gun, getting pocked in the nose when working the bolt didn't help either.
That started my search for a standard 338 with greater power than the 338WM. Hello 330 Dakota! I now have a very manageable rifle I can carry all day and get to within 50fps of the Lapua without any of the shortcomings and burn 15% less powder. I couldn't be happier with my decision. I have reduced my ammo cost also by switching to RUM brass instead of Dakota brass, the reforming operation is easy if you don't want to spend the extra money for the Dakota brass. I have also tried reforming RWS and Mast/Bell brass. We are mostly moose hunters but also very active shooters and reloaders in my group and are always striving for top performance but in a manageable hunting package. At the range I don't care about weight and usually build rifles at close to the maximum weight allowed.
My .02

It sounds like you made a good choice. I have no experience with the Dakota but if you can create brass from existing and less expensive available then that is always a consideration. The 338 certainly allows a hugh assortment of bullets for every use.
I just came in from shooting my 375UM and have decided I don't want to shoot with a too-light rifle and stock ever again. I think I will go back to the 338UM with the laminate and stay with it. It seems to absorb more of the kick and I am also much more accurate as a result.
Frank

I own a 338RUM and love the way it shoots at 150 yds all holes were touching with 3 shots, 250gr bullets. I handload.

I currently have 2 338 Win Mags, a 330 Dakota, 2 338 Lapua's, and had a 338-06. I love em all. But if you are going to have one I would think the place to start is the 338 Win Mag. It's the most available, cheapest brass and very easy to load for (start with IMR-4350). The others are great too but more specialized IMHO.......DJ

I used the 338-06 a good deal and tried the 338 Rum and a couple of others like the .340 Wby...Went back to the 338 Win as a perfect balance of caliber and velocity..I like the 210 Nosler at 3005 FPS for all long range shooting and about anything else...I like the 300 gr. Woodleigh at 2400 plus for elk in the timber and have used it on Cape Buffalo without any complaints..The 250 Nolser is another favorite that will shoot trajectory wise with the 180 30-06 and thats good enough for me...I just like the 338 Win about as well as any caliber that I have ever used.

You migght consider the 340 wby. The ones I have owned are as accurate as any big game rifle I've ever shot. Wby factory ammo, while expensive, is high quality and frequently shoots faster than the 338rum factory ammo. Of course, a reloader can get more out of the 338rum case. Good luck.

WyomingSwede: There are several small companies reloading for the .338-06, but the price for their ammo costs as much as the ones loaded by Weatherby. I did a Google search of ".338-06 ammo," and got several places where it is loaded.

I had a Weatherby M V Ultra-light in 338-06. Factory Weatherby ammo with 210 partitions was loaded so hot that primers were dropping out on 1st shot! I picked the ejected round off the shooting bench and noticed a black hole where the primer had been. It was accurate but a little scary......DJ

ART338: Recoil is a funny thing, I can tell you that the recoil level is higher with the Dakota but it's manageable. For example if you were to rechamber a gun you already are comfortable shooting in 338WM then you will have no problem adapting to the Dakota. It should be mentioned that two years ago I took a bull moose and as usual I never felt the gun recoil, recoil is only a problem at the range. I have only used 250 sptz until now, as I had with the 338WM, but will be changing to better/tuffer bullets this year due to bullet failures, I don't know if this will effect percieved recoil. Body wise we are about the same built.