There are heaps of heavy barrelled .308's on the market but not many gun makers have a heavy barrelled 30/06 I think it is a little of a shame we have not got the choice......why is it so ??

PC at some point Remington made a varmint special in 25-06 but they have discontinued it. I am not sure if they made a 30-06 in the Sendaro line or not. It seems like they would have though.

I can only assume its because they don't sell well. Why is beyond me. The principal argument made for short actions is weight reduction and that doesn't apply to a heavy barrel gun.

I think its a lot of monkey see, monkey do. If the military and SWAT guys use .308 then so do the bulk of buyers interested in that genre of firearm. And that group buys the vast majority of over-25 caliber heavy barreled rifles.

As a whole, the long range hunting crowd is attracted to rounds with a reputation for velocity and seldom buy either the 30-06 or 308. I know there are exceptions but not enough to sway a marketing manager at one of thebig makers.

The 30-06 in a heavy barrel is too "inbetween". If people go with a long action it will be a magnum.

The 308 has a reputation for very good accuracy, while the 30/06 doesn't get that good press. At one time, the 308 was used for serious benchrest shooting due to it's accuracy. But, the recoil did it in, as compared to the 222 Remington that was popular before the 6 mm PPC.
Don

I started to say magnum too but they really do sell a fair number of 25-06 and 270 heavy barrel deer rifles. Winchester in particular. Remington and Savage have pretty much droppped any long action heavy barrel rifles that I can find in their sites.

Then they jump to the 7 Mag or better. Oddly, the Winchester Carbon gun is offered in 25-06 and .338 WinMag only.

Heavy barrel shooters are mostly accuracy shooters, and the average .308 Win will outscore the average .30-'06 until you get to ranges where the .308 is trans-sonic and the '06 is still faster than the sped of sound.

Years ago I saw a graph Remington published of their 40X target rifle test groups shot in a tunnel, and the .308 shot smaller groups. Not a lot mind you, but some. As the cartridges went up in powder charge, the accuracy decreased.

jim

Thats the reason then I suppose the old argumenyt that while the .308 lags behind in speed it is inherently more accurate.

Years ago before heavy barrel 30 cal rifles were popular I had a mauser built with varmit weight barrel in 06 at the same time a buddy had a 308 built on the same action. His 308 is a bit more accurate then my 06 not by much.

I guess it still has to do with 308 and the milltary/police thing and for most people the 308 well get the job done. With less recoil less powder.

Thanks P. Dog.

I have just got a cz laminate 22/250 varmint and I no longer have a 30/06. So I am wondering wether to get a matching cz varmint laminate in .308 or buy a cz 30/06 and rebarrel with a varmint weight. I have heaps of cases and a set of dies for the 30/06 already as well.

Choices....Choices

My 30-06 is very accurate 2 inchs or better at 300 yards sub 5 ins at 600 yards. I like it.

So if I had lots of brass I would go with a 06.

The '06 offers no practical advantage over the .308 in that type of application. How big a varmint does one expect to encounter?

Thanks Bob, may do that yet !!

Winchester made heavybarrel Pre-64 M70's in 30-06 and even 300 H&H. Not common today, though.

If I'm not mistaken, at one time Ruger made a heavy barrel .30-06 in their Model 77 Varmint line. I believe it only had a 24" barrel though.

quote:

Originally posted by recoilpad:
If I'm not mistaken, at one time Ruger made a heavy barrel .30-06 in their Model 77 Varmint line. I believe it only had a 24" barrel though.

I have also found that sako make one to.....problem is I am addicted to cz's

Savage HAD a heavy barrel 30/06 in their 112 xxxx
( all those letters they put behind the numbers that you need to decode all the time)....

NOT sure if they still do, but it was the same price as their varmint weight stuff.....

I don't see a need for a 308,

IN 30 caliber I'd rather have the 30/06 case length...

If I had to have a 308 cased sized action, I'd go with a 7/08 or a 260 Remington instead... ( I have a 260 VLS Remington!) Was looking to rebarrel a Ruger VT into a 7/08 just to play with that cartridge.... on the short action, I think smaller than 30 caliber makes more sense...

ON 30 caliber, I'd go for the larger case....

Of course I don't think you need a magnum action until you hit the 375 bore size....

My problem is that I am not out to impress anyone.... ( and I am sure I succeed highly on that goal! )

cheers
seafire

When the .30-06 was the U.S. military cartridge, it was very popular as a match cartridge. Winchester made the Model 70 Match, the even heavier-barreled Model 70 "bull-barrel" Match, and various others in .30-06 with heavy barrels. They also made the Model 70 National Match, but it had a standard weight barrel in a target ("Marksman") stock. My first Springfield match rifle was a 1903 (not A3) with a John Buhmiller heavy barrel.

Shultz & Larsen even made their Model 54 "free rifle" for 300 meter international competition with a very heavy barrel in .30-06. (I still have one.)

I think you can probably credit the U.S. military indirectly with most of the demise of the .30-06 heavy-barrel rifles. U.S. "hi-power" shooters have always liked to use the current military cartridges in their "accuracy" rifles, after the military has developed techniques of accurizing the weapons in which they are fired...and perhaps optimized the accuracy of the ammo too. That popularity was also probably at least partly a function of being able to buy military ammo at an attractive price, and being able to use it in "important" matches as an allowed chambering.

When the .308 (7.62 Nato) replaced the '06 as the service cartridge, the trend away from the '06 began. When the .223 (5.56 Nato) replaced the .308 it got into high gear. Now relatively few '06 rounds are fired in major high-power matches, and I am not even sure in which matches it is an allowed chambering. That has all contributed to the demise of the "target-barreled" '06.

(Just FYI, if you are a younger shooter, heavy barrels used to be called "target" barrels, not"varmint" barrels. In the old days, for instance, I owned several factory-standard Winchester Model 70 "Target" model rifles in .220 Swift...today they would be called varmint rifles but back then everyone, including Winchester, called them Target models.)

Another factor which has come into play is the simultaneous "anti-military" brain-washing which constantly occurs in schools of at least the U.S., Canada, and Britain. More & more of the time gun owners receive positive re-enforcement for NOT having anything which "looks" dangerous or military, whether the look is really associated with its use or not. Anyhow, many shooters now turn up their noses at military clothing, traditions, or even cartridges...especially if they are trying to make themselves immune to the gun-banners by emphasizing that they are "hunters", not violent guys playing soldier.

Too bad the public at large can't seem to get that FOOTBALL, HOCKEY, and these days even BASKETBALL are violent sports (as are many others). Shooting, by way of contrast, is a sport in which self-control is paramount.

Sorry I got off on that tack. Anyway, the '06 is a good round in a heavy barreled rifle. If you like the round and have lots of components, why not go for it? You only get one go-round in life....

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
There are heaps of heavy barrelled .308's on the market but not many gun makers have a heavy barrelled 30/06 I think it is a little of a shame we have not got the choice......why is it so ??

Before about 1955, there were many heavy-barrelled "bull guns" made in .30/'06 for long-range competitive shooting (prior to the advent of the .308 Winchester). But once it was discovered by the competitive shooters that the .308 Win. has a little better consistency from round to round, they started making these rifles in .308 instead, except for the ones built for some kind of magnum!

I believe thae last time the old '06 won the Wimbledon Cup was 1937, against a lot of .300 H&H Magnums. All the rifles used in such matches have heavy barrels, and a t one time there was a Model 70 Target Rifle in .30/'06 that had a heavy barrel. If you can find one of these for sale these days, they cost plenty.

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
. But once it was discovered by the competitive shooters that the .308 Win. has a little better consistency from round to round, they started making these rifles in .308 instead,.

Well here we go again; The technology devoted to the than new .308 was not shared with the ancient 30-06. Had it been they would have been at least equal as far as accuracy. No powders were specificly developed for the 06 after perhaps 1940 as compared to the many powder developments for the .308.The modern chambering dimentions, tolerances and clearances used on the .308 were not applied to the 30-06.

Almost zero developement money or marketing attention was given the 30-06 just prior to ,during or after WWII. The reference here could even include Hatcher's Note book. I see no concrete proof that the .308 is an inherently more accurate design ,as some claim or was found to be, at it's inception, more consistent from round to round.

More precise loading techniques and greater technical advancement in the arms manufacturing created the .308 superiority mythology. Hell , the 30-06 had great sales as a hunting rifle why screw with it or put more marketing money into it?

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
. But once it was discovered by the competitive shooters that the .308 Win. has a little better consistency from round to round, they started making these rifles in .308 instead,.

Well here we go again; The technology devoted to the than new .308 was not shared with the ancient 30-06. Had it been they would have been at least equal as far as accuracy. No powders were specificly developed for the 06 after perhaps 1940 as compared to the many powder developments for the .308.The modern chambering dimentions, tolerances and clearances used on the .308 were not applied to the 30-06.

Almost zero developement money or marketing attention was given the 30-06 just prior to ,during or after WWII. The reference here could even include Hatcher's Note book. I see no concrete proof that the .308 is an inherently more accurate design ,as some claim or was found to be, at it's inception, more consistent from round to round.

More precise loading techniques and greater technical advancement in the arms manufacturing created the .308 superiority mythology. Hell , the 30-06 had great sales as a hunting rifle why screw with it or put more marketing money into it?

And so goes one man's opinion...... To which every one is entitled, right or wrong!

My hi-power experiences have taught me that the M1A recoils less than the M1, and so it goes for the AR 15 variants too.
A similar trend is seen in bolt guns too, witness the various 6.5s. I'd never turn down the -06 in a bolt gun -especially a pre '64 M70.