110 to 150 grain bullets.

.308
- 8" for bullets heavier than 220gr.
- 10" for bullets up to 220gr.
- 12" for bullets up to 170gr.
- 13"* Ratchet rifled 4 groove
- 14"* for bullets up to 168gr.
- 15"* for bullets up to 150gr.
- 17"* for bullets up to 125 gr.

This info comes from Shilen's website.

quote:

Originally posted by Robert405:
.308
- 8" for bullets heavier than 220gr.
- 10" for bullets up to 220gr.
- 12" for bullets up to 170gr.
- 13"* Ratchet rifled 4 groove
- 14"* for bullets up to 168gr.
- 15"* for bullets up to 150gr.
- 17"* for bullets up to 125 gr.

This info comes from Shilen's website.

While this is probably technically correct.....I wouldn't have a .308 slower than 1-12 twist.

quote:

While this is probably technically correct.....I wouldn't have a .308 slower than 1-12 twist.

That would be my choice.

1/10 twist will cover everything that a .308 can reasonably launch with any velocity and is preferred for 168-175gr bullets by many who shoot .308 at long range.

I also like the 1:10 twist. The 308 Win is not meant to throw 220 gr bullets, IMHO.

Guys, I have just initiated a .308 project and the smith recommended a 1/11 twist, is that a real animal? Based on the above I just wondered, I am confident in this guys ability, and the barrel is to be a custom, I just wondered if he really intended for 1/11??

my douglas barrel is 1:10 and loves 150s and 165s

Fish, the 1 in 11 is about the very best a .308 can be built with. It is optimal for 165-168 grain bullets for the long distance shooter. The reason as I have been told is that the bullets will "turn over" as they arc through flight. Meaning they tend to stay nose on very well. Not just in a stablized fashion, but actual orientation in flight.

You mention 110 to 150gr bullets so the implication is that you want to use the rifle for general hunting and not for 1000yd competition shooting. The twist rates on the Shilen site are right for long range applications, but hunting bullet manufacturers build their hunting bullets to work best with standard SAAMI and CIP specs. For general hunting 1:10" is the way to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Robert405:
.308
- 8" for bullets heavier than 220gr.
- 10" for bullets up to 220gr.
- 12" for bullets up to 170gr.
- 13"* Ratchet rifled 4 groove
- 14"* for bullets up to 168gr.
- 15"* for bullets up to 150gr.
- 17"* for bullets up to 125 gr.

This info comes from Shilen's website.

The standard for the .308 has always been 1/12" since Win. first broughtthe cartridge out commercially.

The problem with the Shilen table is that twist rate is based upon bullet LENGTH, not weight. For example, my pre-64 M70 Featherweight 1/12" barrel shot Sierra and Hornady 220-grain ROUND-NOSE bullets quite accurately, but would not stabilize a Sierra 220-grain MatchKing.

I am working with a new .308 barrel in 11" twist, and so far good 150 gr - 185 gr. I would go with your gunsmith recommendation of 11" twist. Pac Nor , Lilja, etc makes barrels with this twiat rate.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by the_captain:
I also like the 1:10 twist. The 308 Win is not meant to throw 220 gr bullets, IMHO.

Well, if 1 in 10" was the better twist, why did Winchester use, and still did till the folded the 1 in 12" twist? I have several .308 Win. Rifles and most have the 1 in 10" twist, but the 1 in 12" M70s will outshoot them every time.

As far as shooting 220 gr. bullets, oh really? El Deguello has already mentioned his experiences with 220 gr. bullets, and now I'll relate mine.
First off, many years ago, it was held that the 30-40 Krag with 220 gr. bullets was a better elk cartridge than the 30-06 shooting the same weight bullet. Now, we all know better, and that is was bullet consruction back then was nowhere as good as it is now. Now the Krag shot the 220 gr. bullet at an advertised 2000 FPS. This got me to thinking (Dangerous, I know.) If the krag at roughly 40K P.S.I. could push a 220 gr. bullet to 2000 FPS, couldn't the .308 do the same thing? The .308 can be loaded to the 52K P.S.I. range. Finding data was a challenge, but those books that have data for one cartridge had data even had data for 220 gr. bulets. Powder of choice was Winchester's W-760. Starting load was 42.0 gr. for 2177 FPS at 42,000 P.S.I.and a max load of 44.0 gr. for 2295 FPS at 46,900 P.S.I., well below the 50K plus pressures allowed for the .308. Then came the decision of which rifle to shoot the loads in? The Winchester M70 with a 1 in 12" twist or the Ruger RSI with the 1 in 10" twist? In theory, a 1 in 12" twist will not stabilize a 220 gr. bullet in .30 caliber. Well, a 1 in 12" twist will generate slightly less pressure so I went with the Winchester. Definitely answered two questions in my mind. First, a 1 in 12" twist WILL stabilize a 220 gr. .30 caliber ROUND nose bullet. Two, the bullet was quite stable at 2300 FPS. In fact, it was stable even at the starting load. The max load did give the best group, a three shot cloverleaf that had all the bullet holes touching, a true cloverleaf measuring .375" Probabbly a fluke right? Not really. I fired three three shot groups and the best was .375" and the worst .50".
Bell, the African hunter who killed 1,100 elephants, 800 of which were with the .275 Rigby (7x57 Mauser) opined late in life that the .308 Win. with a full metal jacket 220 gr. bullet just might be the perfect elephant rifle. Not too sure I want to tackle Jumbo with a .308, but that 220 gr. bullet at 2300 FPS will certainly be one penetrating combination.
BTW, if you think that's not all that much, chronograph some current 220 gr. 30-06 ammo. I doubt very much they'll even come close to the 2400 FPS as advertised. I ran some 180 gr. Winchester ammo over the Chrony a while back as it was hard pressed to surpass .308 ammo witht he same bullet weight.
Now, whether one has use for a bullet that heavy in a .308 is one thing, but to say it won't work is utter nonesence. Rather than pass one another old wives tale, try loading some up and running them over the chronograph and see just what results you get. Experimentation is what we learn from.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
Guys, I have just initiated a .308 project and the smith recommended a 1/11 twist, is that a real animal? Based on the above I just wondered, I am confident in this guys ability, and the barrel is to be a custom, I just wondered if he really intended for 1/11??

Fish (I'll send PM also)...yes, 1-11" is THE recommended twist for .308. Funny you are in the works on that. I happen to have a Kosytshyn SS pre-turned blank in sport magnum contour, with 1-11" twist that I would part with. I was also going to build a .308 but my malpractice insurance took precedence. Let me know if you are interested.

308 Sako, Kabluewy and Doc, thanks for the intel. This smith has made me a couple of real tack drivers, so I am indeed confident in him, I'll definitely go with the 1/11 barrel.

Thanks

Doc--PM on the way

Proving again, that one well designed experiment is worth 10,000 opinions.

Cornerstone

If you are not going to go greater than 150's, a 15 twist 3 groove Lilja is the ticket. I have this same barrel on my Hunter Benchrest rifle which is chambered in a tight neck 308. I mainly use 134gr hp benchrest bullets in mine but a 15 twist is good to 150gr and under. Also, a 14 twist would do the trick also. If you wanted to go up in weight to the 170 go with a 12 twist. This is what is used in the M40 sniper rifle. Hope this helps. Mike

El Deguello wrote:

quote:

The problem with the Shilen table is that twist rate is based upon bullet LENGTH, not weight.

Shilen has got it perfectly correct as is also confirmed below by GS Custom -

quote:

Particular attention should be paid to the length of bullet and the rate of twist of the rifle. This is perhaps the most overlooked key to good terminal performance. Selecting a bullet by weight makes as much sense as buying shoes by weight rather than size.

My .308 with a 1:10" twist and the correct length bullet has proven itself over and over as being the best with a wide range of hunting scenarios.

my brothers 308 is a 24" 1-14" twist, it shoots most bullets between 110 - 150 grain half inch or less for 5 shots at 100 yards. aint tried anything heavier but 150gr bullets over here are heavy enough for all of the game animals

Late to the discussion here, but it's worth mentioning that there was a time when the 308W was the accepted standard cartridge for NRA 'Match Rifle' Highpower competition. In those days 1-12" twist was the accepted norm. In these rifles we fired up to the 180gr Sierra MK and 185gr Lapua D47 with X-ring accuracy at 600 yards. Some of these barrels lasted many thousands of rounds.

I tried 11" twist in one barrel. It was a good barrel, but if it was any better than 1-12" with the 185s I could not see it.

It's said that the current trend for Palma rifles (in the USA anyhow) is 1-13" in a three-groove barrel for the 155gr bullets required in Palma.

quote:

It's said that the current trend for Palma rifles (in the USA anyhow) is 1-13" in a three-groove barrel for the 155gr bullets required in Palma.

This is true. However, most Palma shooters like to over stablize the bullets do to the fact they are shooting 1000 yds.

I've been using my current factory barrel out of a remington 700VS wich I believe is 1:10. I shoot the 110gr Speer TNT HP for coyotes and it is a sub moa load using Varget powder. Very light recoil and deadly on the yotes!