Is 22 inches too short? I'll still get more than a standard 280 with the same barrel length right, just a bit more noise.

Yes it will work. Key gain from an AI is more room for slow burning powders. So your gain will be small. At equal pressure I would not be surprised if you didn't simply burn more powder for the same velocity. Sounds like you are doing a rechamber. For my $$ since you need to set the barrel back anyway. I would go with a new barrel 24 maybe 26" long.

I built my 280PDK (gibbs+) on a 23" to simply be different. If I did it again I'd go longer.

Like ram said, to see any real gain you'll need a longer barrel. 24 to 26" and you'll start to see the difference in the AI chamber, as you'll be able to stuff more powder, and with a longer barrel take advantage of slower powders. Personally I think even a 22" barrel on a standard 280 Rem is really kind of not letting the round live up to its potential. I'm having one custom built (Rem, not AI) and I'm still going with a 24. I'd go longer but this is a general use rifle so I think going longer would hinder its purposes.

My 280 AI wears a 22" barrel and I'd do it again. I get 3100 to 3150 fps with 140's depending on the powder. With lots of breathing room. Individual barrels and chambers will dictate as much velocity loss/gain than a couple inches of barrel.

I did some machine trading and ended up with a nice 280 AI on a custom Springfield action sporting a Leupy 6X. It has a 27 inch barrel. Shilen barrel and a very nice piece of wood, lots of unformed brass, a few formed, lots of bullets and a set of dies. I just don't see a need for much over 24 inches and to me 22 inches is good for most things. 3100 fps with a 140 is just fine as I have been knocking all kinds of game off using a 7x57 with a 19 inch barrel. I already have a 7MM RM with a 24 inch barrel if I need that last fps more than handiness.

When I build my 280AI, it will have a Krieger bbl that is already sitting in my safe, and will be 24" or 25" long. I think 25" will bring a nice balance to the rifle and caliber.

For mixed terrain I would go with 22-24 inches; in open country I would go with 26 inches. If you're going to the effort to AI a cartridge, you're obviously looking for an increase in performance. To fully realize that performance increaase you'll need inches. Balance is also something to take into consideration, but I find rifles that are a little barrel-heavy handle better. Lou

I like longer barrels but I get in and out of vehicles a lot and longer barrels make this a slower process. The barrel already at 27 inches is just ridiculous. I may try the 24 inch length before I go to 22 inches. If I can get 3100 fps with the 140 grain Partition out of a 22 inch barrel this would be all I need.

To quote Nosler: "To maximize accuracy, the NoslerCustom action is mated to a hand-lapped, 24" match grade stainless Match Grade barrel that has been custom chambered for the legendary 280 Ackley Improved cartridge."

Chuck, Could you give me deatails on your LH
280 AI. Win 70 SS? Type of stock? Nice looking rifle.

rick,

I'm partial to stubby tubes and like yourself I seem to do a lot more rifle handling, toting, into/outa stuff with a rifle than tugging the trigger at game, so for my $0.02, I consider compactness a premium. I sure notice it when I'm (more sharpshooting than hunting) in a stand and toting the heavy barreled 7mm Rem. Mag. with a (long to me) 24" tube into/out stands and vehicles. Barrels are a law unto themselves anyway and while certainly length is a good way to eack all the supposed velocity out of a barrel but I doubt sincerely if a bullets gonna drop off the edge of the world before arriving where it's suppose in many cases with a 2" barrel difference. If you're gonna re-chamber an already good barrel you may end up with less initial outlay and still maintain good accuracy & speed with a 21.5" tube.


kk,

I noticed that, too.

Nice Mule Deer, nice Whitetail, nice looking Left-Handed rifle.....apparently Chuck & I do the electrical tape trick over the muzzle, too.

Nice all the way 'round!

24-25"....U can always cut back to 22" if you find your getting tOOmuch vel....

mine is 25" and will run 140BT's into little groups right under 3200fps with rl22. it is a long gun but i use it in open country and don't spend any time in a truck so it doesn't bother me.

25"

quote:

Originally posted by kk alaska:
Chuck, Could you give me deatails on your LH
280 AI. Win 70 SS? Type of stock? Nice looking rifle.

The stock looks like a McMillan. Lou

quote:

Originally posted by kk alaska:
Chuck, Could you give me deatails on your LH
280 AI. Win 70 SS? Type of stock? Nice looking rifle.

Thanks!

Basically a LH SS Model 70, Williams steel extractor, Williams oberndorf bottom metal, stainless hex head guard screws, a Pac-Nor barrel that is an exact copy of the Winchester factory fwt contour, Talley LW mounts, McMillan compact EDGE in Olive green, and a Leupold FX II 6x36. Oh and a couple of wraps of 3M Super 88 electrical tape.

Chuck

The larger case capacity of the 280AI really does it's best with the slower powders like RL22, RL25, IMR7828 and H4831. The slower powders make good use of a longer barrel.

Mine is a 26" Hart barrel on a Sako 75 action



and I wouldn't have it any other way



You could always cut it off and recrown it later if you don't want a long barrel. Can't add barrel after the fact.

Just how much more powder does a AI case hold over the standard 280 case?

~4 to 5 grains.

My std. 280 wears a 23" bbl. & I get 3000fps w/ 140gr-145gr bullets. I would not want to go shorter.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
My std. 280 wears a 23" bbl. & I get 3000fps w/ 140gr-145gr bullets. I would not want to go shorter.

Why? Is 15-25 fps a make or break deal?

First things first. First I would work up loads for it as is now and see if it is accurate, and how it feels in the fields I hunt as it is.

Then if you do not like the feel, but find it accurate enough to keep without rebarreling, you can always chop it shorter.

Unless you have have other very, very similar rifles, it will be difficult to predict handling and feel in advance of cutting the barrel. That being the case, I would probably shorten the barrel first to no less than 25" long. Then I'd recrown it, and check it for accuracy and feel in the field again.

If that did not pan out with ripples of delight, another inch or two could be taken off and the whole test procedure run again. And yet again, if needed. Sooner or later it will taste just like the baby bear's porridge..."Just right!"

You may avoid over-pruning a gun whch would have otherwise delighted you, by approaching it like a problem to be solved carefully rather than just wading ashore with both feet flailing and all guns blazing. I know I am tickled with my standard .280, and for me the happy barrel length turned out to be the common, prosaic, old standard, 24". YMMV.

My last 280AI had a 26" barrel on it and the one currently being built for me by Empire Rifles will have a 26" barrel. To IMPROVE a case the size of the 280 and putting anything less than a 26" barrel is-to me- like hooking a race horse to a plow.

Not being critical of those who have done this but milk the thing for what it can give you...7mm Mag velocity and performance without the severe muzzle blast and recoil!

I'm shocked it took Nosler or anyone as long as it did to legitimize this cartridge same issue with the 338-06 and A-2 and Weatherby. Oh well we have them as commercial cartridges now.

Good Hunting and Merry Christmas,

"Z"

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
My std. 280 wears a 23" bbl. & I get 3000fps w/ 140gr-145gr bullets. I would not want to go shorter.

Why? Is 15-25 fps a make or break deal?

Realisticly, pushing slow powders thru a 7mm bore will yield you 40-50fps diff./inch. SO if I am pushing even more powder in 280ai, I would want at least a 23"bbl. or why bother? If I had a good shooting 280 w/ a 22"bbl. I wouldn't bother spending money on dies & rechambering to gain 50fps. If I was going to rebarrel a 270 or such, then why not get a bit more performance out of the AI chambering? Would I buy a 280ai that already had a 22" bbl. sure, but the cost of the conversion has been factored in.

My 280AI has a 25" Kreiger barrel and I never shot 140/145gr bullets in the 280AI. My 7x57AI had a 23" barrel would do alittle over 3000fps with 145gr bullets using alot less powder than the 280/280AI.

IMHO the advantage on during the 280AI is with bullets heavier than 150gr and longer barrel. Best I could do with a 150gr in the 7x57AI was 2915fps,2824fps with 160gr bullet and 2711fps with 175gr bullet

I prefer longer barrels. I just do not have any negative issues with them. I have no problems with 20, 22, 23" bbls. My .06 I built with a standard 22" and it is a sweet shooter and handles great. But, for what I'd call a "specialty" caliber, like an AI, to me, the whole purpose is to milk it for what I can with a rifle that I'm comfortable with.

That said, I prefer 25 to 25.5" barrels. I don't like them much longer and I don't want them shorter than 24" usually.

Also been considering a .280 gibbs on a #1 with a 28-30" tube.

I just don't see the 280 AI as an endall long range cartridge. If I were really after a lot of fps I would pick out one of the huge cased 7's out there presently. Are there any other benefits other than the 4-5 grains of extra capacity the AI brings to the table?

quote:

Originally posted by rickt300:
I just don't see the 280 AI as an endall long range cartridge.

I agree.

quote:

Originally posted by rickt300:If I were really after a lot of fps I would pick out one of the huge cased 7's out there presently.

So would I.

quote:

Originally posted by rickt300:Are there any other benefits other than the 4-5 grains of extra capacity the AI brings to the table?

None...other than a little bit of "wow" factor. I think it was vapodog who wrote once that there is no need for any AI. I could be mistaken. However, if correct, I agree with him. There's nothing a 280AI can do better than a 280 within what most would consider to be reasonable hunting distances, say, 300 yrds and under.

To me, AI calibers are like nicer rims on cars. Kind of cool, but serve no improvment in getting you from point A to point B. That said, I still want one and it will have a 25" barrel.

What sort of rifle weight is everyone targeting? I like a longer barrel and I'm torn between getting a thinner lightweight setup or going with more of a Remington Sendero pattern which seems to fit me well in a couple of rifles I have.

You guys convinced me, I'll start with 24 inches and suffer a while with that length tube to see if I can live with it.

rickt300,
Nothing wrong with your reasoning. I built a 7-08AI with a 22" 11 twist #2 Shilen. I was simply hoping to get the same velocities as a standard 7mm-08 with a 24" barrel, from a shorter barrel that was handier in the brush. My highest velocity with 140gr bullets has been 3075fps with H414. Primers were not flat and bolt lift was easy. My hunting loads, however, are stuffed with IMR 4831 at 100fps slower. Accuracy is much better.
My dad's 7-08 Model 7 has an 18.5" barrel that shoots the 140s at 2740fps, and it kills deer just as dead as mine. Go figure.

A few years back, i wore the barrel out on my .270. I choose a new barrel, in .280 AI from this angle- I liked both the 270 and 7mm Rem mag shooting 130 and 160 grain projectiles respectivly.But there wasnt enough differance to justify havng both, so I chose the 280AI as it allowed me to come up 10 grains in bullet weight, yet still push the projectile close to 3200 fps from a 24 inch barrel, and I didn't want to go longer than 24 as it had to be an allround hunting rifle. I havn't been disappointed and yes I would of probably been able to use either of the other calibers, or a 7mm08, but this just fits nicely in the middle and kills with authourity.

I would recommend 24". I have a M700 action blue printed,Hart #5 fluted 24", Tubb recoil lug, pillar bedded in a LSS stock.

JD338