Hi fellas,

I have my eyes on a new rifle...it´s a light weight rifle with 20” barrel, I can have it in .308 win and in 30-06. Now the question is: which cartridge suits better in a 20” barrel ?

Thanks,

quote:

Originally posted by Ingvar J. Kristjansson:
Hi fellas,

I have my eyes on a new rifle...it´s a light weight rifle with 20” barrel, I can have it in .308 win and in 30-06. Now the question is: which cartridge suits better in a 20” barrel ?

Thanks,

.308

Either one will shoot accurate with proper loads and probably most factory stuff. The questions to ask yourself are,

what am I going to use this for?

which components or ammo is easier to obtain locally?

Generally when I look these over real well it helps to sway me some. For me here in the states it's a toss up. For you it might be one or the other, or neither for that matter. So again it would be a push.

From a shooting stand point, the '06 will be a might bit more temperamental with a thin barrel simply due to pushing more powder through. However the 16.5" barrel on my .308 gets warmed up pretty quick as well.

I would say let the bullet weight and intended use determine your choice.

This is a coin toss. You'll never know which one when shooting it. The game cannot tell the difference either. The 308 has a slight but real edge in the accuracy department, though.

.308!

I have 5 .308 rifles and parts to make 2 more. I have played around with 30-06 a bit too. There is only one short barreled 30-06 that I find attractive and that is a model carried by Canadian Mounties back in the 1950s. It had an extremely short barrel. If not mistaken it was only 12 inches.

.308 performs great from short barrels! This rifle you have your eye on, what rate of rifling twist is available for either caliber? As Mike/Tx has stated bullet weight plays an important role. If the twist available for 308 is only 1-14 and you want to shoot 180+gr bullets then you will be dissatisfied with your results. 308s usually not faster than 1-12 twist. 30-06 usually 1-10, handles heavy bullets better.

Please provide us with more information about the twist.

Andy B

quote:

If the twist available for 308 is only 1-14 and you want to shoot 180+gr bullets then you will be dissatisfied with your results. 308s usually not faster than 1-12 twist. 30-06 usually 1-10, handles heavy bullets better.

1/14" has never been a standard twist for the .308. But the 1/12" has, and it will handle the 220-grain roundnose bullets too. It is length, not weight that is significant
when selecting rate of twist.

I have two Ruger RSI's, one in 308 and other in '06 and both shoot very well and tough to tell the difference when shooting as far as recoil. Barrels are approx. 20" on both. When shooting a five shot group, both barrels are a bit on the warm side, but doubtfull ever take that many shots at game, so they work fine. Like the ease of handling and quick to mount and carry w/ one hand by your side.

308, although I have no experience with either round in a short barrel rifle.
I'm just more partial to the 308 today. Maybe it's because I have a bunch of 308 brass on the shelf...

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
.308!

I have 5 .308 rifles and parts to make 2 more. I have played around with 30-06 a bit too. There is only one short barreled 30-06 that I find attractive and that is a model carried by Canadian Mounties back in the 1950s. It had an extremely short barrel. If not mistaken it was only 12 inches.

.308 performs great from short barrels! This rifle you have your eye on, what rate of rifling twist is available for either caliber? As Mike/Tx has stated bullet weight plays an important role. If the twist available for 308 is only 1-14 and you want to shoot 180+gr bullets then you will be dissatisfied with your results. 308s usually not faster than 1-12 twist. 30-06 usually 1-10, handles heavy bullets better.

Please provide us with more information about the twist.

Andy B

I have both among the four .30-06 and three .308W. rifles currently in my safes. My Mannlicher-Schoenauer, .30-06, with it's 20" tube gives a chrono'd 2725 with 180NPs over 57-IMR-4350 and my equally ancient and well-used BLR-.308W. gives 2500+ with 180NPs over 42.5-RE-15 from it's 20" tube. BOTH shoot sub.-moa with these loads and this velocity difference is about average for the many '06s and .308s I have owned, loaded for and shot. Soooo, MY choice for BIG game, would BE the .30-06-180, no question.

The R.C.M.P. for whom I briefly worked as a "civilian employee" as did my mother,a fairly senior civil servant in that organization and my father as well as one of my uncles, a "member" in the early '50s, has always had very rigid regs. concerning "issue" firearms, compared with American coppers. I have never heard of a gun such as the above and I used to shoot at an R.C.M.P. range, while several senior retired "boffins" are friends of my wife's and mine.

I suspect that this was some rig that some guy dreamed up on his own, as the rifles used by the "Queen's Cowboys" here in the '50s, were No.4MK1 Lee-Enfields in .303 British, made at "Longbranch" in Ontario. These are, btw, among the BEST of the legendary "Smellies" and are both hard to find and pricey, even here, where you can find P-64-70s for 2/3 of the average US prices.

Either one, although the 06 is more suitable for the heavy bullets, putting it into a more adequate catagory for larger game. Back in the 60s in Colorado, a friend of mine carried a 30-06 mod. 760 with a factory 18" barrel. He had the best hunt to kill ratio of anyone I have ever known. roger

By the way Andy both rifles have 1-11" rate of twist

My 'shorty' is a remington 600 in 308. But honestly, a 30-06 would be just as handy.

The reason for having a short barrel is to have a light, handy rifle. The .308 can fit in a "short" bolt action -- about 3/4 inch shorter than a .30-06 bolt action, and the short action will also be lighter.

This, along with the factor that the .308 uses a little less powder that is usually also a little faster burning powder than those used in the '06 means that a .308 will also produce less muzzle blast in the short barrel.

One more small but significant factor is that the EFFECTIVE barrel length (distance the bullet travels in the barrel) is about 18" in the .308, but only about 17.5" in the .30-06 due to the difference in the lengths of the cartridges. In other words, a 20" barrel is not as short for a .308 as it is for an '06.

In "short", the .308 is somewhat better-suited for a carbine than is the .30-06.

The simple facts of life are that the 30-06 can be loaded down to the .308 level of power' but the 308 can not be loaded up to the 30-06 level of power. Also throw in the advantage of the 30-06 to handle heavy bullets, it becomes clear that the 06 is a more versatile cartridge than the .308.

The 30-06 is an all around better cartridge than the .308 for sporting purposes from a bolt action rifle.

But in the end just pick the one you want and then get the other as well! That way you can let your son shoot the .308 and tell him when he grows up he can shoot the real mans gun in 30-06!

Have fun.

quote:

when he grows up he can shoot the real mans gun in 30-06!

The funny part about this all is that it is impossible to tell the wounds from one apart from the other, provided they both hit the same place on the animal in question.

Ingvar - .308 ... but go and see Hjalmar (sp) - got the gunshop just out of Reykavic -

>308 (aka 7.62) was designed specificlly to work out of a 20" barrel, and you can easily get first class match HP ammo and premium SP in Iceland.

From a practical standpoint, eigther will serve you well, but out of a 20" barrel the velocity difference will be minimal - the 30-06 will have all of 10m greater point blank range!

All has pretty much been said. If it were me, short barrel = short action = short rifle, answer .308.

Don't see the advantage of a short barrel in a long action when you have a choice?

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Ganyana...Funny how small this world is...I know Hjalmar and go regularly to his gun shop !

I prefer the 308.

I have been using 18" to 20" 308's for over 30 years. I like them.

The "Real mans gun" comment was just in jest! To the animal I am sure it feels the same.

The real divide between the two is with 180gr to 220 gr bullets, the 30-06 just handles them better.

quote:

By the way Andy both rifles have 1-11" rate of twist

Perfect! Now it is just a matter of personnal opinion. My feeling is that there are probably more different loads for 308 around the globe than for 30-06. Animals will probably not know the difference of what hit them. Nothing wrong with shooting 180-220gr from .308. Long heavy bullets penetrate great! Speed above 2500fps not necessary!

Andy B

I like both cartridges very well.
I have 3 .308s and 3 30,06s at this time.
I have a Ruger #!RSI in 30,06 and it gets velocitiy better than what I can reach in my 22 .308s.
I am not sure if I agree with Hamourkiller that the 06 is a better cartridge, But no question it has a bit more power.
But on avarage the .308 is a little more accurate.
I think I would choose the 06 if were to be a 1 rifle hunter.
But since i am not I think I would opt for the .308.
Just seems to preform a little better in light weight short barreld rifles...tj3006

It is a rather short barrel, and you will not get the full advantage of the larger case volume of the 06. But it will give significant more muzzle blast to blind you at low light hunting and punish your ears.
I would go for the .308 no doubt.

From a practical point(if anything can be called practical in our country these days) the 308win is far easyer as factory ammo is available in every store and far cheaper than 30-06 ammo if you can find any.

But i guess you are a reloader and then its more of a question witch one you would like more, 308w cases are easy to get and cheaper than 30-06 cases again if you can find any.

Both carthridges are more than enough for anything local.

Regards Ben

quote:

The simple facts of life are that the 30-06 can be loaded down to the .308 level of power' but the 308 can not be loaded up to the 30-06 level of power.

Total common sense. For the same reason a 357 Magnum Model 13 revolver was more versatile than a 38 Special Model 10 revolver.

The larger capacity of the 30-06 will enable you to achieve good velocities in that short 20" barrel at lower pressure than would your 308.

The extra length of the 30-06 case will "make up" for the lost inches on your barrel.

So, in effect, you will by using 30-06 achieve the same velocity as you would have achieved in a 24" barrel 308.

However other factors such as ammunition availability may be relevant to you. Certainly if it were for target use with factory FMJ ammunition I'd choose the 308 option.

This discussion is fun, but in reality, if you stuck a .308 and a .30-06 in a barrel and rolled it down a hill. A damn fine rifle would be on top all the way down!

I have a local range were I shoot in the fall during hunting season, I get to pick up range brass for a nickle per piece. 30-06, .270 and .30-30 are the predominate rounds durring deer season. So I pick up the .30-06 brass and shoot it in my Garands.

So for my situation the .30-06 is more economical to shoot. Bullets-powder-primers being equal.

This picture shows a Buck, hog, and a yearling.
The buck was killed with a .300 WM
The hog with a .308 W
The yearling with a .30-06.

All 3 fell over dead within 30 yds of being hit.



.30 cals rule in the deer woods!

375 ruger.... Oh wait, that wasn't on the block. Truthfully your asking which is better a brunette with medium length hair or a brunette with medium-long length hair. They do exactly the same thing at the ranges you will be shooting at.

If you are open to other than 30 cal, the 338 federal would be good and the 358 win is good too.

John

.30-06 with 220 grain bullets.

I,ve kept one of the two .308's in the past yrs and don't shoot it anymore, gave it to my son...now on the other hand my aught six's does get alot more running time. the heavier bullets are always a plus for me. I admire the feel of the "classic" pre-64 in my hands....the heavier bullets have never failed me..nor the caliber

oh well...just my personal thoughts.

Ingvar if you must have a 20" barrel why not a 300RCM in a Ruger. Designed for a 20" barrel and a lightweight & compact rifle to boot.

regards,
JohnT

JohnT...I think it is safe to say that here in Iceland (and other European countries) 99% of hunters have never seen a 300RCM rifle ! As good as it may be I think its too much trouble to find one and other stuff such as good brass, reloading data ecc.

For my hog rifle I have a 18 inch 03 in 06 scout set up using 220RN of what ever make for 2250fps. Works well. If one wants to use the heavier stuff the 06 is the way to go.