My new shooting partner has now busted TWO rear scope bases on his new rifle. It is an extremely light weight Sako A3 in 358 STA. I'd say 7.5 lbs max. It has a muzzle brake and good pad, still kicks like a mule. Problem is 2 weekends ago we were shooting and he couldnt keep his shots on target or anywhere close together. Then he looked down....snapped the base clean in half. So he got a new one, this last weekend we were shooting again. He put a few rounds through and it was starting to group how a custom built, handloaded rifle should...then the groups started to open up again. Looked at the base, and saw the stress fractures starting already, after....4-5 shots maybe?

Can anyone recomend some VERY strong scope mounts for this guy? It'll be a damn shame if he can't find anything and has to trade this rifle.

It might help if we know what mount he is using now.

Weaver mounts are quite strong.

I think he WAS using Weavers this 2nd time around. Leopolds the first, as thats what came on the rifle. Maybe a good solid base 1 piece?

One problem he is going to have to deal with, is what to do with the integral bases on the Sako?? The bases themselves are indestructible, but I don't know of rings fitting directly onto them that I would trust under very high recoil. Sako Optilocks, Leupold Sako rings, Warne all seem a bit fragile.

I know you can put Redfield type bases on top of the Sako integral bases. Sadly it means the Sako integral bases have to be drilled and tapped, and not a lot of people like that when they buy a second hand Sako.

If, however, you went this way, maybe you could make a set of double dove-tail rings fit onto Redfield (front) bases fit onto both the front and the back of the Sako integrals.

Problem with this solution: you won't know if this setup will hold up until you try it out, and then you'll already have had to drill and tap the Sako bases...

Perhaps somebody with a Sako in .416 Rem might chime in here. I can't think of a standard Sako chambering with much higher recoil...

- mike

Ken Farrell bases and rings will hold it. They come in 1 or 2 piece. The 2 piece are plenty strong and alot lighter. The 1 piece g force mounts have additional recoil lugs that you screw into the ends of the ejection port and come in either front or front and rear. The front and rear work really good for light rifles with a brake. His aluminum rings will make up for some of the weight you gain with a 1 piece mount. I have used these rings and bases on a lazzeroni warbird with carbon fiber wrapped barrel and brake for over 7 years. no problems.

Thanks guys! I will let my friend know your suggestions. Hopefully something gets worked out sooner then later.

I didn't see this, but what scope is he using? This plays a huge part in the amount of shear to the scope base screws. A large, heavy scope will generate more force under recoil. Go light as possible on the scope & the Sako bases should hold fine.

Milehighshooter,
I believe Seekins makes a recoil lug that projects up into a 1 piece picatinny rail for recoil. I see you on LRH site. Give Nate308 a call. He has used these before, and might be able to help you out.

LRH? Not sure which site this is, might be another MHS!

He is using a Leopold, and its not really a large scope at all.

What do you guys think about Talley? I think this is what he is going to try next

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
LRH? Not sure which site this is, might be another MHS!

He is using a Leopold, and its not really a large scope at all.

What do you guys think about Talley? I think this is what he is going to try next

Which Leupold, anything much bigger than a 2.5x8 is going to have problems staying on a hard kicker like a lt.wt. 358mag.

Redfield bases that slide over the dovetails and have lock screws to hold them in place will work. The weak link is the rear ring that is held in place by the two screws that hold it in place. On a heavy kicking gun these screws will fail if the scope is not properly secured in the ring.
I once saw a Sako 416 that had the rear Sako mount sliding over the dovetail and was filing off the little stop on the bottom of the ring. Replaced with Redfields, end of problem.

I have a picture, but have failed on my attempts in the past to post pics.

Control are hard to beat, they will take a licking and keeo on....

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
I didn't see this, but what scope is he using? This plays a huge part in the amount of shear to the scope base screws. A large, heavy scope will generate more force under recoil. Go light as possible on the scope & the Sako bases should hold fine.

Bingo!!

My .375 Wby is in an A-Bolt Stainless Stalker. It weighs 8 1/2 lbs. scoped. It is not braked and is quite a lively little booger when fired. I'm using Leupold dual-dovetail bases and Leupy rings. Had the #6 screws replaced with #8's and I believe the smith glassed the bases to the reciever. I chose a Weaver V10 (2-10x38) because of its 11 oz. weight. Less weight generates less inertia uder recoil and less shearing force on the mounting hardware. So far the bases & rings on the rifle are sound through a couple hundred rounds.

Ruger No. 1 in 45/70, Leupold rings and a Leupold 32mm objective VXIII (about 1.5 -- 6x, I'd have to check). Lock-Tite on the tube screws.

Ruger No. 1 in .458 Win. Mag., Ruger rings, Leupold VXI 4x, I think 30mm objective.

Full bore loads on both. Never had a burp from either.

the problem is that sako's have tapered integral bases. each shot drives the taper into the base and will split it like firewood.

I had a light 375 AV that did the same thing.

It held with a 1.5-5 leupold in Leupold rings directlty on the sako bases, as long as you were careful to tighten them equally. The key was to have the front and rear the same tightness, whether the ring is direct on the tapered sako base, or you use an 'adapter' type base on the tapered sako base.

If they are not equal, one will slip easier, and the tight one will split.

Last resort is to use adapter type bases, tap them on to where they are as tight as they will go, then drill a hole in the base and insert a dowel or screw that will stick into the notch at teh rear of the rear intergral dovetail, and into the rear of the front base where it overhangs the rear of the bridge

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:

What do you guys think about Talley? I think this is what he is going to try next

There you go! The Talley bases fit the dovetail, and have screws in them that freeze them in place. I tap the bases on good and snug witha nylon faced mallet, and sock down the screws really tight--I might drill out the existing screw holes and go to a larger screw in this particular situation, but I'd probably try them bone stock first. I'd be surprised if those bases split--again, assuming there is a tapered dovetail setup on this Sako rifle. If it is a traditional mount, Talleys will do fine as well.

Good luck to you and your friend.

A one piece Picatiny rail is about the most recoil proof base that one can get. The base has a shoulder that buts against the front of the action and takes the recoil shear forces and all the screws do is hold the base down and tight against the reciever

Another vote for the Talleys. I have them on a 416 Sako with no problems. I don't care for the Optilocks at all. I have had a couple of screw heads snap off during shooting.

I use on some of my hard kickers the leopole mounts. They are made for heavy kickers.

I'm suprised nobody has mentioned ring height. Keep that scope as low as possible for a number of reasons. In the recoil dynamic, the bases are fulcrums between rifle and scope. Any clearance between objective bell and barrel should be adequate.

I'm not suprised at all that the Weavers failed. Those crappy drive on adaptor bases they use for Sako applications are junk. The Leupold failure suprises me a bit - might have to do with with how they were originally installed or their lack of a recoil tab on rear mount.

I'm no fan of Optilocks either. Even the lows are too tall for most applications. The screws seem soft too. God alone knows why they chose to replace the excellent original windage adjustable ringmounts with these - more streamlined, I guess.

My suggestion would be to use the original Sako ringmounts that would have been in use when that A3 was made. Although not available new, they were produced for 40-some years, so there's lots around (fleabay, GB, established gunsmiths). I've picked them up as cheap as $30 for lows, and see mediums go for $50-75 regularly. Just make sure they're in good shape and haven't been lapped.

MHS, you never do say what Leupold scope, but since you say it's not large, I'll assume 40mm bell, or less. Mount heigth of lows is 3/32 and mediums are 5/16. You can easily mock it up to see what heigth you need using drill bits laid on the mount pads. You may be able to use the lows, but be sure to throw the bolt, as the occular lens may be the rub.

No question the 358 is a harder kicker, but I've run close to 2,000 stout rounds through my 375 since the 60s without a hint of trouble. The front mount will creep forward a little on firing, even if you tap it on pretty snugly. In a few shots it's fully seated though, so I usually mount the front, fire 3-4 shots, and then proceed. Why not take advantage of the cool dovetails as intended?

I do like the Conetrol set-up also, but have no experience with them on a hard kicker. Very handsome, though

FWIW - Dick

MileHighShooter ----- I shoot a .340 Wby, .338 Lapua, Two .358 STA's, .416 Rem and Rigby. From much experience I have gone to the Dual Dove Tail mounts by Leupold. Either you or the gunsmith who mounts the scope should also use condums for the rings or the smith will have a rubber base ring liner. The big boomers need a little special attention. Good luck and good shooting.

I'll pass your suggestions along! Its not my gun, its a shooting buddies. He came across this package used and it was too good to pass up, but has had a few issues including this one. Not sure if I mentioned it before, but this thing is also super light lol even with a muzzle brake it kicks very hard.