Loafing through some forgotten "holiday" pictures, I found these "in & out" to illustrate the often discussed topic of the 9,3's effectiveness on game (actually a 9,3x74R, with identical ballistics to the 9,3x62).

A large exit hole for sure, but no bloodshot meat and in case tracking should be needed (not in the present case...), you can take my word that the blood trail is quite apparent...

[ 06-10-2002, 16:58: Message edited by: Andr� Mertens ]

Andr�, you touched the right shoulder. I intend to shoot my next Roe deer behind the shoulder, to minimise meat damage and to check if such a small game as Roe without bones will open up the 9.3 bullets.

The next logical test would be if something big with bones will destroy the bullets. Will have to delay that one because of monetary reasons

Hermann

Andre.... I have 9.3X74R in a ruger #1, I absolutly love. 2 seasons ago I took a very nice bodied Elk with it. The cartridge from what I understand has been around since the turn of the century, though it is not very popular here in the US (I think those odd European bullet diameters tend to scare us ). Its a shame... because the cartridge has many things going for it. I know that we have a few wildcat cartridges based on it in .308, and .338. How popular is the 9.3X74R compared to the 9.3X62 in Europe Andre?
Take care. sf

HI

Both cartridges are popular on driven hunts. the 9,3X74R is the option if you want a break open style rifle. bolt actions are often 9,3X62. The 9,3 family is very popular in Europe for wildboar, fallow deer and redstag. In Sweden the 9,3 are reclaiming the market to day because of our wildboars are growing in population. It's a nice round for most hunting.

/ JOHAN

Andr� Mertens,

This is why is want a rifle in 9.3X62. I hope to see the same picture but with a wild boar to seen meat damages.

Thanks for share these picture with us.

What projectile was used here??

I reckon the BT's would work well in the 9.3 for that size game.

Smallfry

Didn't Elmer Keith neck the 9.3X74R to .338, improve the case and call it something like the .338-74 Keith?

I think he got over 2500 fps with the 275 Speer.

Tim

I have used the 9.3x74R with the following bullets on deer and pigs,up to 300lb. boars,with excellent results in a Chapuis double. All handloads. 270 Speer, 285 Nosler partition, 286 Woodleigh SP., 285 Hawk .035jkt., and 286 Barnes super solids [turkeys only]. All have performed perfectly. The 9.3x74R is one of the best mediums for anywhere in the world for nearly any game.

450 NE #2, you would not mind to share some loading tips?

BTW, do you have an antique 450 NE #2 or did you buy a new one or is it just a handle?

Hermann

Andre,

Whilst I am a great fan of my 9.3x62 I would hesitate to call it 'efficient' for roe! It does the job but with seriously more recoil and power than is needed. You can only empty blood so quickly from a circulatory system and IMHO my 9.3 doesn't kill roe any quicker than my 6.5. So bigger penalties for same result - not my definition of efficiency.

All that said it is very versatile and the recoil is not noticable when you have fur in the sights.

I'll reply to all questions, if not necessarily in chronology :
- rifle is a FN O/U (3,2 kg) and, while recoil is definitely present off the bench, it goes unnoticed whit "fur in the sights" ;
- ammo was factory Norma 286 gn SP Alaska ;
- wound size on red deer and wild boar is the same but inside, their much more resistant hide doesn't tear up that easily ;
- in my experience, the 9,3 SP's always expand and pass through, soft or hard target notwithstanding. The pictured roe had its shoulder broken but not shattered (I can show you the same shot with a .300 Win Mag that blew out heart and shoulder, leaving a mess of hematoma). Hits in a softer part show a (not much) smaller exit ;
- the 9,3x74R (or 9,3x62)is not what I would call a typical roedeer round but during drive hunts, we see red-, roedeer, boars and foxes. What can handle the most, does right on the less... Anyway, even with a bad hit, an animal will show it's been hit... and, believe me, it drains blood - and circulatory system, all the same- faster than a smallbore ;
- Elmer Keith did indeed chamber a long range .338-74R wildcat.

1894, as Andr� says, its too big for roe deer, but we like to take that 9.3 along in case the Red stag of a lifetime or that 290 lbs boar we all dream about shows up ...

And the 9.3x62 with those heavy bullet does less meat damage than the same-energy-300�s and 338.

Apart from that, go to the Big Bore forum: is there <any> reason to shoot things like .585, .577 Tyrannosaur, 4 bore.

There seem to be a lot of Masochists down at the Gulf region, too

Hermann

If we were all practical it would be a boring forum.

PC,
[QB]If we were all practical it would be a boring forum. /QB][/QUOTE]

I agree with my big bore handguns

As I've started the "gore" topic, I might as well go on (NB. : pls. note that I'm ready to remove offending pics -I can understand- at first notice, my only intention being to get "technical", comforted by the knowledge that the animals pictured,however "shot up", did not suffer a second).

This is a Roebuck, shot in the same conditions as the one above, but with a .300 Win Mag. Opposite shoulder and heart were blown out and a sizable portion of venison was "minced meat" :

I find nosler BT's from my 30/06 can create wounds like this and there going a hell of a lot slower than a .300 win mag.

My 45/70 loaded with 300 gr sierra hpfn's at 2150 is also a dramatic exiter.

Andre what does a deer like that weigh roughly, it does not look any bigger than a Large Red Kangaroo, some of them get to be 200 pounds there abouts I reckon (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Andr� Mertens,

I find very interresting your posts regarding meat damages with a 9.3X62 and a .300 Win Mag.

For me that proves what is written in theory for some calibers isn't the reality.

This is the main reason why I prefer the 7X64 over the 9.3X62 or .300 Win mag for Roebuck size animals.

Thanks for your posts.

PC,

200 pounds seems to be the weight that you would give a red roo, based on what I have read. I have never weighed one.

I do know that about 15 years ago some scandanavian (spelling) hunters we took away nearly shit themselves when they saw the red male in the spotlight. As you know, they do look big in the spotlight.

As to exit holes and damage to the animal, in my experience the most damage occurs with the bigger bullet.

There will be days when the 270 does more than the 460, but when measured across many animals and varying components the big bullet does the most.

Andre's post about apologising for gore shows that the European experience is limited to a few animals and he is also fitting into the American political correctness of "harvesting"

Bssically, if you want to bash the shit out of the animal a big bore is best. Good follow up is with the Landcruiser and that includes right over the top of them.

I would add that the scandanavian hunters fitted right in after a coupe of days, as does everyone when they get the chance.

Mike

To date MIke the biggest wounds I have seen have been the 45/70 loaded with 300 gr sierra's FNHP's at 2150 fps, the speer 400 gr flat noses also I suppose were pretty dramatic.

I wonder how my .416 will go on game Mike it will be my first real chance to blast some stuff this July, I am using woodeligh 410 Gr SN's maybe they will be too hard.

Yes The Land cruiser also does the Trick.

PC, not even close to it. A Roebuck's live weight maxes at about 30 kg (66 lbs). Our red deer goes 250 kg (550 lbs.) and Wild Boar 230 kg (506 lbs). In Eastern Europe, these 2 may weight considerably more.

PS.
Without offence to you, Mike, but what you describe does not fit into the hunting concept, as practised on these shores.

Andr�,

No offense taken.

But I can tell you I have been with the Europeans twice and Americans once down here and everyone soon fits in.

The situation I mentioned above was notable for the people being slow learners. They wanted to shoot a big roo and a big pig by stalking them. So after getting exausted trying to tell them we dropped them out in the middle of the property. PC will know exactly what the situation would be in North Western New South Wales. As I said above within a couple of days they were into "quantity" rather then "quality". You would also be amazed at how they had a complete loss of interest in tracking a wounded animal in the spotlight.

Mike

carcano91,

May be I'm wrong. But never seen in the book roe-deer hunting with a 9.3X62 or a .300 Win mag. or talking about meat damages for this size animals.

But I'm very interrsting in a book with meat damages, penetration by calibers.

If you can advice me on this I'll be happy. Thanks.

Mike,

I have when I was around 13 -14 tried to stalk a large red roo across open plains in N.S.W around Ivanhoe area. 3-4 hours later I was still about 1 km away. I creep about 100 yards, the roo hops a further 100 yards........and on we go

Have not bothered to attempt to stalk one since.

PC, me think you've got the message, speaking on hunting on even terms

BER007, still a lot of Roe deer is shot with heavier than needed calibers. Remember, during a drive hunt, you may have to deal with animals weighting between 30-250 kg. Last night, I went out after Roebuck with my Blaser R93 in .300 Win Mag (rain was forecasted, so I went "synthetic stock") and, for the second time in 3 weeks, I had my "old buck" in my crosshairs. In both instances, he only presented me with a brief frontal shot before vanishing. Each time I refrained from shooting so as not to tear him up... Sooner or later, I'll meet him in profile where even a .300 Mag, placed in the frontal and upper part of the heart (aorta), will drop him on the spot without spoiling venison.

[ 06-13-2002, 15:04: Message edited by: Andr� Mertens ]

I enjoy hearing about how shooters enjoy there sport in different countries. I think from what I have read Aussie shooting is a lot different to American and Europeon Style shooting.

We do I suppose what you could call a lot of vermin control style shooting, but I love it.

PC,

The names of our magazines and pro gun group describe it. Think of our two main magazines The Sporting Shooter and Australian Shooter. The you have the Sporting Shooter's Association.

The main new thing I have learnt from this site is the number of Euopeans mucking about with big bores. Also, if the Engish that post are representative, they do not seem to get involved in playing about with calibers and in particular the big bores, which is strange when you think England was the home of it all.

Mike

PC,

You must try, a Belgian hunt

I will one day Ber007,

One day you will have to do some Vermin control shooting, which requires a lot of driveing and shooting from the ute window or on the back of the ute., and shooting quantity not neccesarily quality.

You get to let of plenty of shots. Most trips I will fire up to 300-400 shots in a day (including shot gun and centerfire together).

Interesting Mike I would have though the British would have owned the majority of the Big Bores on this forum.

Mike and PC, just lift the totalitarian English gun laws (which are feared throughout the rest of Europe's shooting community and taken in example by our local anti's) and you'll see a blossoming of big bores, like everywhere else.

Andr�

Many Australian shooters are unaware that our new licensing criteria introduced in 1996, would have restricted us to calibers that were only deemed as being applicable to a particular use and no more than one rifle in the same caliber or similar calibers. Fortunately it was defeated.

Mike

And what do the tree hugging hippies call appropriate

I work with poeple like this and they make me sick, there ideas and values about marginising minority groups and social Justice are hypocritical and self serving.

[ 06-14-2002, 01:28: Message edited by: PC ]

aHunter I have a British 450 No2 made sometime between the 2 world wars. I base this on what little information I have about the "maker" and the proof marks on the rifle. As for 9.3x74R loading data I have used both Reloader 15 and Dupont IMR4831. I am using 65gr. of IMR4831 with the 285/286 gr. bullets. My velocities chrono around 2150 to 2218fps. depending on the brand of the bullet. If you need any more info let me know.

I use a 9,3*74R too, and the pic�s of the roes confuses me a little bit
I use a normal 18,5g Softpoint and on roes never get such results.
Okay, i never shoot on the shoulder when hunting roes ( just on wild boars i make shoulder shots), and the small body of a roe will not give much resistant to the bullet, so meat destroy is not a question.
Because of this, the shotten roes run about up to 50m, but with an incredibal blood trail.
So my dog has nothing to do , and i guess he hates it
A friend of mine uses the woodleighs in his 9,3*74R and reported me that he never had a problem with meat destroy.
Mostly 2 holes,..thats all.
cheers
konst#1

I agree wholeheartedly about the 9,3 not making such holes. Ive shot roes with 9,3x62 and never seen an exitwound like that one... mostly it leaves a hole around 1-2". the worst roe destroyer I�ve had my hands on is my Ruger Varmint 243, wich I load with Speers 70 grain TNT HP. Talk about nuclear destruction!!

Made in Sweden,

While hunting roe deer I have had better results with fast and light bullets than with long, heavy-for-the-caliber, round, slow, large diameters.

I have never found a bullet which was too soft for roe.

Can you please give more details of your experience with those TNT Speers. I was thinking of giving them a try in aa 6.5x57R around 3350 fps.

Thanks in advance.

Montero