One of Us
| Man that is strange.! Only thing Ican think of is barrel heat and or Fowling. Forgive my ignorance but what is a VLD bullet ? Could you be peelikng cooper off in your barrel by pushing them to fast ? ...tj3006
freedom1st
|
| | |
One of Us
| VLDs are basically a high ballistic coefficient bullet they are found at the berger site. i was shooting it from a cold barrel. and the barrel was all but perfectly clean before i started, althought i had shot some 5 accubonds before i started that had gone well. i now assume its the load |
| | | Posts: 735 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 17 August 2006 | 
IP
|
|
One of Us
| You said you didn't change the scale, did you check the scale. There are strange things that can happen overnite. I have had spiders, and even a bug build a web in my drop tube. sometimes a bug will climb in the tube and cause a odd drop of powder, especialy if its in basement or garage. I have had it happen. Rich |
| | |
one of us
| VLD=very low drag |
| | |
One of Us
| quote: Originally posted by R D Show:
You said you didn't change the scale, did you check the scale. There are strange things that can happen overnite. I have had spiders, and even a bug build a web in my drop tube. sometimes a bug will climb in the tube and cause a odd drop of powder, especialy if its in basement or garage. I have had it happen. Rich
ill take a look at the scales and see if everythingy is good. on another note, how long should the barrel last when its firing 150gr bullets @ 3200fps? |
| | | Posts: 735 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 17 August 2006 |
IP
|
|
One of Us
| Paul, there is no way to predict barrel life. It depends on the steel, also the powder burning rate ,bullet design, and most important how hot you get the bbl. thats just a few of the more controlable types of bbl erosion. Rich |
| | |
one of us
| IMO, your scope is toast.
Chuck |
| | | Posts: 2659 | Location: Southwestern Alberta | Registered: 08 March 2003 |
IP
|
|
One of Us
| quote: Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:
IMO, your scope is toast.
Chuck
Ding Ding Ding I think we have a winner!  The scope is the most likely culprit for off and on performance. If a load shoots well 1/2 MOA and then does 4 MOA which is 8X as bad... check by changing the scope during a bad string of shooting.  Member NRA, SCI- Life #358 28+ years now! DRSS, double owner-shooter since 1983, O/U .30-06 Browning Continental set. |
| | |
One of Us
| I thought the scope was the problem until you said you changed to another load and groups went back to .5". It's not likely the scope - or bedding - went from good to bad and back to good.
Pretty much has to be some error in the bad shooting loads. The old "bug in the measure" problem seems good at this point. Or bad caps. Or a bad batch of bullets, especially if they are undersized. ??? |
| | | Posts: 1615 | Location: South Western North Carolina | Registered: 16 September 2005 |
IP
|
|
one of us
| My first thought was the scope also, until he related that he shot the 150 btips without incident. That would rule the scope out. My guess is the reloading. IF you happen to drop your powder charges from a measure, it is possible that you threw a few charges that were way off. Load 15 more test rounds with the VLDs but this time weigh each charge (if you don't already)....clean the rifle again, shoot the new loads while keeping the barrel cool; don't let it get too hot. Is it possble that you mixed up some primers or brass as well? Double check your seating depth with a mic on the finished loads.
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns
|
| | |
One of Us
| i weigh each load before i load them up. ill definately have a look at the seating depth part. i did test them at 15 thou and 10 thou, 10thou was the best with half inch and 15thou were around 2 or 3 inches. although i may have them around the wrong way. might load some up at 15thou and see how they go! |
| | | Posts: 735 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 17 August 2006 |
IP
|
|
One of Us
| I know its a small thing, are the primers fully seated? in clean pockets, they can do a lot to group size to an otherwise accuate load. and as doc said, could they be differnt primers possibly? |
| | | Posts: 33 | Location: fremont,ca. | Registered: 25 April 2005 |
IP
|
|
One of Us
| quote: Originally posted by Ejor:
I know its a small thing, are the primers fully seated? in clean pockets, they can do a lot to group size to an otherwise accuate load. and as doc said, could they be differnt primers possibly?
i could try and clean them up more, i can never seem to get it to bare brass no matter how hard i try. i can get rid of the bulk of the crap in there but can only clean the outer edges right down to the brass. i use the hornady primer pocket cleaner. funny you ask about primers, they are out of a different pack but are from the same lot number, so i wouldnt think it should have any effect? |
| | | Posts: 735 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 17 August 2006 |
IP
|
|
One of Us
| Did you OVER-tighten your scope rings or use ill fitting rings like Leupold makes these days? Believe it or not, many think you must provide a absolute "DEATH-GRIP", scope rings to scope. Snug is all you need. This will prevent distortion, external and internal damage. Ill fitting and out-of round rings SHOULD be lapped.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
Hamlet III/ii
|
| | | Posts: 423 | Location: Eastern Washington State | Registered: 16 March 2006 |
IP
|
|
one of us
| Paul
Clean your bore and shoot the gun again.
It is possible that the Accubonds that you shot before the Bergers laid down a base fowling that the Bergers did not like. I have seen this happen with bullets of different gilding material.
James |
| | |
one of us
| If the primers are all the same lot number, then this has no bearing, so long as you stored them properly. I still do not think it is a scope issue. Especially with the confirmatory Btip test. While I do believe cleaning the primer pockets is necessary, I'm not sure to what degree it has on the accuracy. I know a long range shooter that, when in a rush, deprimes and reprimes without a cleaning and it hasn't moved his zero out to 700 yards. Another avenue you might consider is this: How many times have you loaded the brass in question? If it has been worked over 2-3 times, you might just have a batch that needs annealing. Your brass might be "work hardened."
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns
|
| | |
one of us
| Did you check the scope mounts?. You don´t say where the gun is grouping in half an inch, that is, if the point of impact is the same of the 190 grainers. |
| | | Posts: 1020 | Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina | Registered: 21 May 2003 |
IP
|
|
One of Us
| quote: Originally posted by ldkier:
Did you OVER-tighten your scope rings or use ill fitting rings like Leupold makes these days?
Believe it or not, many think you must provide a absolute "DEATH-GRIP", scope rings to scope.
Snug is all you need. This will prevent distortion, external and internal damage.
Ill fitting and out-of round rings SHOULD be lapped.
i didnt use a death grip when tightening them up. they are really only tightened up snugly. naintal. the 190grainers shoot about 5 inches lower and 2 inches to the left of the 150gr noslers. as for the brass i guess they have had been loaded around 5 times each, some might be on there 6th time around... they are winchester brass. i use winchester primers for the 150grainers and federal 210s for the 190s. both using VV N-160 powder, 70 for the 150s doing 3200fps and 65 for the 190s doing 2800 |
| | | Posts: 735 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 17 August 2006 |
IP
|
|
one of us
| quote: Originally posted by J Bennett:
Paul
Clean your bore and shoot the gun again.
It is possible that the Accubonds that you shot before the Bergers laid down a base fowling that the Bergers did not like. I have seen this happen with bullets of different gilding material.
James
There it is. Consistency is everything. Changing jacket materials fouls things up (pun intended), but changing powder does, also. If you go from one powder to another, or one brand (type) of jacket to another, running a couple of patches through is indicated. JMO, Dutch.
Life's too short to hunt with an ugly dog.
|
| | | Posts: 4564 | Location: Idaho Falls, ID, USA | Registered: 21 September 2000 |
IP
|
|
One of Us
| I like the Bennett suggestion. Another thought, even though you stated your case prep was the same, did you change case neck lube in the two strings? I found a significant change in SD and group size with some loads I was working up based solely on necks being lubed. Lubed necks were less accurate. Kudude |
| | | Posts: 1473 | Location: Tallahassee, Florida | Registered: 04 January 2005 |
IP
|
|
One of Us
| What was the ambient temperature when you loaded the ammo. You stated you did it on different days and temperture can alter some powders. Like if loaded in cold temp and fired on a hot day will make a differance. Rad
NRA Benefactor Member
|
| | | Posts: 344 | Location: Bean Town in the worthless nut state | Registered: 23 July 2005 |
IP
|
|
one of us
| How many shots were in the groups? If it was say five, did like 3 of them land in a typical fasion with 2 opening it up to 4" or were they really all over the place? I had trouble like yours last month with a .223. My groups had a decent core to them but singles scattered round the outside. For me it traced back to some of my brass just plain being past it's useful life, split necks and varrying neck tentions.
---------------------------------
It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it
|
| | | Posts: 741 | Location: NB Canada | Registered: 20 August 2002 |
IP
|
|
One of Us
| quote: Originally posted by NBHunter:
How many shots were in the groups? If it was say five, did like 3 of them land in a typical fasion with 2 opening it up to 4" or were they really all over the place? I had trouble like yours last month with a .223. My groups had a decent core to them but singles scattered round the outside. For me it traced back to some of my brass just plain being past it's useful life, split necks and varrying neck tentions.
the group was actually only 4 shots. the first 2 shots were about an inch apart horizontally but the same vertically, the next shot was about 2 inchs or so lower than those two, but horizontally it was between them. the next shot was 2-3 inches right of the 3rd shot. if ya catch my drift? |
| | | Posts: 735 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 17 August 2006 |
IP
|
|
one of us
| Sounds like it wan'ts to "go for a walk" eh? It's kind of tricky for these things sometimes. It sounds like it's starting off well enough but getting worse. Are all four rounds being fed from the magazine or loaded one at a time. Your post above about seating depth sounds like (maybe) the rounds could be getting bumped back during firing making them fire erratically. Do you crimp, and are all your cases trimmed equal? Some say I'm too cheap to buy new, but I aneal my cases necks every 5th time (except for the above mentioned 223) to maintain equal neck tention. I hope any of this helps and please respond back as this really has me interested.
---------------------------------
It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it
|
| | | Posts: 741 | Location: NB Canada | Registered: 20 August 2002 |
IP
|
|
One of Us
| quote: Originally posted by NBHunter:
Sounds like it wan'ts to "go for a walk" eh? It's kind of tricky for these things sometimes. It sounds like it's starting off well enough but getting worse. Are all four rounds being fed from the magazine or loaded one at a time. Your post above about seating depth sounds like (maybe) the rounds could be getting bumped back during firing making them fire erratically. Do you crimp, and are all your cases trimmed equal? Some say I'm too cheap to buy new, but I aneal my cases necks every 5th time (except for the above mentioned 223) to maintain equal neck tention.
I hope any of this helps and please respond back as this really has me interested.
i load the round in one at a time, i push them part way into the chamber with my thumb before i push the bolt up behind them. and i do not crimp. |
| | | Posts: 735 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 17 August 2006 |
IP
|
|
One of Us
| quote: Originally posted by J Bennett:
Paul
Clean your bore and shoot the gun again.
It is possible that the Accubonds that you shot before the Bergers laid down a base fowling that the Bergers did not like. I have seen this happen with bullets of different gilding material.
I think that this is your problem. I would clean the bore & confirm that I could still get a good group from the Bregers. Then I would try to duplicate everything I did on the day the groups went south. See if you get similar results.
James
|
| | | Posts: 527 | Location: Tennessee U.S.A. | Registered: 14 April 2005 |
IP
|
|
