Got a new Schultz & Larsen in 30.06 and want to start with Barnes TTSX 168 grain
How much deer have you had this combination to penetrate (both TSX and TTSX), would like some real stories from the field


Of course a picture to share of the S&L rifle

That bullet will shoot to end to end and exit a deer

And kill the deer behind it

Explorer I have been shooting the 165 gr TSX in my 30-06 Ackley Imp. I have shot the 165 gr TSX into wet newspaper and that bullet outpenetrated a 200 gr cup & core bullet. I have never recovered one of these 165 gr bullets shot into game, they exit everytime. I would suggest it is enough bullet for everything up to and including moose. Hope that helps

Well, it works!

All taken with Barnes TTSX 168gr.

Nice animals Jason

Did the TTSX 168 exit on the Wildebeest?

I have used it in 308 winchester and 30-06. All 1 shot kills with deer dead right there if placed on the point of the shoulder broadside.

I have used X and TSX in 270W, 30-40K, 35 Whelen and 375 H&H for moose. The last three were 168 TSX in 30-40 at 2625 mv. I have recovered only one bullet and that was from the 30-40K at a close range, broadsideshot cow. The bullet broke two ribs and went through both shoulderblades stopping under the skin. It looked like it was from their commercial, picture midway down this page: http://www.kammeret.no/forum/v...=17&t=8122&start=160

I have used the 168 TSX on a bunch of deer and a few pigs, never recovered one! I load with Reloader 19 and have excellent results.

quote:

Originally posted by Explorer:
Nice animals Jason

Did the TTSX 168 exit on the Wildebeest?

All complete pass through, the Blue was taken at about 180 yards.

150gr TSX in a 308WIN:

.30 going in, about .60 coming out.

Have not recovered a bullet / all have completely perforated whitetail deer.

All deer have been DOA within 50yds.

One deer was shot "head on" in the chest at 40 yds - bullet passed completely through exiting out the belly inbetween the rear legs - 3' plus of penetration.

I use 180gr TSX's in my 300WBY Mag for black bear - same as above for deer.

Accuracy with both rifles has been incredible - always under .5". Don't max out the load & keep the bullets about .003" off the lands.

100% happy with Barnes to date.

Only one animal with a TSX. A cow elk at 150 yards with the 225 gr. Barnes TSX from my .35 Whelen. Fastest damn bang/flop I've ever seen in over 50 years of hunting. Bullet it just behind the short ribs on the left side and exited between the neck and right shoulder on the right side. very impressive.
Not to get OT, but a few years back I shot a 190 pound Mule Deer facing me at 250 yards laser measured with a 165 gr. Speer Hot-Core from a Ruger M77 RSI in .308 Win. That bullet hit the chest where the neck joins the torso and penetrated through the deer until it hit a back leg bone breaking it. I'm thinking a 168 gr. TSX would probably have kept on going but ther really was no need. I don't hink it would have been much different if I'd have been shooting an 06 rather than the .306. Recovered bullet weight 120 gr. as I recall.
Paul B.

I've shot elk from about 30ft to 417yds with a 130gr Barnes X, XLC and TSX. Have only recovered one, and it was picture perfect and 100% retained weight.

I don't even look for them in deer anymore.

one of us
Posted 05 April 2010 06:37
Had a great hunt on the El Sauz ranch last Monday for nilgai. My buddy is a lease holder and called to ask if I'd help him get the last few animals on his lease as his lease year was ending. He had 3 bulls and 5 cows left. 4 of us went down with the intent on each killing an antelope. In the morning I killed 2 middle aged bulls for meat, one guys missed a cow and another connected. 3 animals was a GREAT morning. After butchering them out the leaser told us to head back out and get 5 more. We decided to walk a very remote, very thick area that lay behind 2 gates. Now this area is never hunted because most of the other leasers drive around in trucks looking for animals. Nilgai have unbelievably keen senses so this is not a great way to hunt them. We figured the antelope in this pasture would be pretty calm since it is too thick to drive hunt and there are no other gates on the rest of the ranch so why would anyone hunt here. We started on the south end of this 2000 acre pasture heading North into the wind. 2 of my buddies where walking abreast with me about 8' behind. We walking down an overgrown road when we came to a small natural opening about 100 yards deep. My buddy did a double take on it and kept walking. I naturally looked down it when I got to it and noticed a large black mass that appeared to be another mesquite about 80 yards down. I put up my binos and noticed it was a bull. I unslung my rifle, a Centurion Arms 308, shouldered the rifle and dropped to one knee. The bull spotted me when I dropped. He was standing in the "v" of a large mesquite, that's why my buddy missed him, and one of the trunks totally covered his neck. I decided to hit him in a frontal chest shot. He whirled around and ran straight down the opening. I hit him again square in the ass as he ran. he went another 10' and wrecked in a heap. By the time I got to him he was dead. In my scope I noticed his chest was huge but when I got up on him he was enormous, weighing over 600 pounds. My first shot had done him in. The Black Hills Match 168gr TSX had taken out the top of his heart and bottom of both lungs. I found the bullet on the off side on top of the last ribs, thats 4' of penetration!
I have always passed on the trophies to let other guys shoot them but when I saw this guy in my scope I really wanted him. After standing over him I was so proud of him and what a great hunt it had been. I haven't shot a trophy anything in 20 years so this was quite a treat!
The recovered bullets weighed 167.2 grs and measured .614 caliber at the widest points (not including the bent petal) and .535 caliber at the narrowist.
The rifle is a Centurion Arms custom M700 308. It has a 16", 1:10 Douglas bbl. with an Ops Inc. 12th model suppressor. Topped with a NXS 5.5-22x56.

Perry

Thanks for the nice reports and pics, I'm surprised that this combination has not been used by more hunters?

I discovered the load 30-06 with the 168gr TTSX just last year. I had been so pleased with other bullet combos that I had little reason to change. I don't remember why, but it was probably why not, and I bought a box or two of the bullets, probably for my 308. But the 308 was shooting so well with the 165gr Nosler ABs, that I didn't want to mess with changing. Anyway, I loaded up a few for the 06, with the same powder and that I had been using, and WOW. Super accurate first try. Since then I've loaded up a good stash for my main go-to rifle. I figure that I can always count on that load. All the other loads I had I've been using to test other rifles in 30-06.

I can vaguely remember trying some 165 gr Hornady or Sierra bullets in my old standby 30-06, and they werent' as accurate as the 180gr, so for years all I used was 180gr bullets. Not anymore.

I haven't actually used it on game yet, but with the accuracy I'm getting and the knowledge that all the other Barnes bullets I've used so far, and read about, have worked well, there is little to be concerned about.

I've got an accurate 300 Win Mag now, and I'm working on a 180 gr TTSX load for it.

KB

Guess I will be the "fly in the ointment". I have hunted white tail for over 30 yrs and never lost a deer using mostly '06s and occasionally a 308. I don't seek ultra penetration. A couple of shots never exited using old fashioned "Silver Tips" at 150 gns. I like the idea of super expansion and fragmentation. It works well for me and often drops them as they stand. I have hit them from all angles but try for side shots--gut shots just don't do anything for me as we process our own. We used to have a house broken pet deer so I just refuse to wound any animal--they hurt just like we do. I quit bow hunting after finding a broadhead imbeded in a shoulder blade that had "gristled" over. The pain that deer had to put with just angered me. If I were hunting a larger animal then the TSX would be a great choice. One reason I went to Silver tips is because my bud shot a deer with a normal round and the boolit killed his buddies son several hundred yards away. A tragic accident but one that can be avoided.

I see no need for a super-penetrating bullet like the TSX o deer-sized game. Sure they'll work, but why?

I like them because they are the cheap part of the expense of hunting, and they make quarter size groups at one hundred yards. It's reassuring in a way to know that, especially with a bullet that can be counted on. Prior to the TSX, I used Swift bullets. Also, I used many Sierra bullets that would do the same thing on paper, and kill deer well too, and cost less per shot. But what does cost have to do with it? Maybe it matters to a cheap skate, or a guy who shoots a lot. Once I have a load developed, a box of fifty bullets will last a few years. If I want to plink, I'll use cup and core bullets, and probably another rifle.

Anyway, of course the super penetrating, weight retention bullets aren't needed for deer. So what? I always liked Sierra bullets, and still do, but I always felt a little unsure about them to serve well should they be needed for something bigger than deer, since I hunt in brown bear country. Actually, I think the 30-06 is tiny for big bear, but I often carry it anyway. At least a bullet that is known for penetration is some small comfort, and it certainly doesn't hurt anything for use on deer. I don't mind less blood shot meat, and 100% weight retention means no lead particles too. I really don't like any bullet that is super fast expanding, fragmenting, or explosive like a varmint bullet, for deer hunting.

KB

quote:

One reason I went to Silver tips is because my bud shot a deer with a normal round and the boolit killed his buddies son several hundred yards away. A tragic accident but one that can be avoided.

O6,

Are you saying your friend shot a deer and the bullet went thru the deer and then went several hundred yards and killed someone?

That would seem to defy the laws of physics given that the bullet is now only say 30 inches off the ground and has lost a tremendous amount of velocity and is also deformed.

Also, what is a "normal round"?

And what is a

Mike, I can't speak to the circumstances 06 has described, but it might be something akin to a shot I once took when I was younger and wished I hadn't.

Opening day Minnesota; 2nd year hunting this particular property, overlooking an alfalfa field with a prominant hill in the center of the field.

Towards the last 30 minutes of shooting, a doe and two yearlings skylined themselves on top of the hill. I decided to shoot one of the younger deer. About a 200 yard shot with a Scirroco; passed right through the deer and kept on going upwards - probably for quite awhile.

There were no accidents in Minnesota that year, so I'll assume that my foolish actions didn't hurt anyone. Wouldn't do that again for anything!

friar

quote:

It's reassuring in a way to know that, especially with a bullet that can be counted on.

Like this one I retrieved from an elk?

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:

quote:

It's reassuring in a way to know that, especially with a bullet that can be counted on.

Like this one I retrieved from an elk?

Tell us more, please, such as the range - 100 yds, 1200 yds, or what? How many times did you shoot the elk? How many times did you shoot at the elk? Etc. I presume the elk was dead when you retrieved that bullet.

I'm used to seeing pictures of the classic open petals. Your picture looks like a real anomaly. Are you saying mono metal bullets are worthless, and unreliable, based on that picture?

Surely that bullet tumbled. Why I could only guess. If so, that alone is an anomaly - and whatever caused it, IMO, could have happened with any bullet. One thing almost for sure, it ain't gonna open if it hits sideways, or backwards. What does it mean? Damn near nothing, IMO. If you think differently, explain yourself.

KB

i have seen two that came out of animals that i shot both i shot through bushes and hit a tree branch before the animal and they looked just like the picture. However the other 150 or so animals that i have shot with TSX's i either never found or they were perfect four petals expanded.

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
Like this one I retrieved from an elk?

I've tried the same with a Nosler Solid Base on a Scandinavian moose, I guess the bullet hit a branch on it's way and was tumbling when it hit the moose, inlet hole looked like the bullet in its full length, anyway it was a very nice and effective kill as it hit between the lungs and the heart, through my scope I could see the blood gushed out of the inlet hole like water from a 3/4” tap, no need for a dog to find the animal with such a track
I believe you got the same risk for no expansion on any other lead bullet if they don’t hit the animal with the front area

Shot was clear, didn't hit anything on the way in. Shot was roughly 175 yards. 150 TTSX from 308 Win at 2,850.

Looking at the evidence after I killed the elk with another shot, as best I can tell the bullet nose got pinched closed on impact rather than opening and the bullet tumbled inside the elk just like a FMJ would.

What's troubling is I've seen quite a few recovered TSX/X/TTSX/Failsaife bullets from friend's critters and others that I think there's an issue with the whole "expanding-monolithic" concept as currently made.

I've shot elk with the 168 TSX and had stellar results... here's one taken out of a bull shot bedded at 50 yards from a 30-06 loaded at 2,880:

I'm more a fan of the Partition on elk:





Or Accubond on elk:

A friend's unopened TSX from an Antelope next to an opened TSX:



Another unopened TSX from a friend's Mule Deer:

That's interesting. I suppose it's best to know these things happen, rather than assuming the bullet will perform as expected, every time.

With a little educated guessing, I'm figuring that these unopened bullets shown in the pictures tumbeled in the animal. I don't see how they couldn't tumble, with the bent nose. Certainly they didn't penetrate in a straight line. And certainly penetration depth was affected, otherwise they would have just penciled on through, with no chance of recovering the bullet. In other words, recovering the bullet was possible because they tumbled. Which also means all the energy was spent inside the animal.

I suppose the best choice is something like the AB or partition, but every time I see one of those pictures, it bothers me a little, knowing it started with a perfectly acceptable SD, and ended with half of it blown away, which is why it didn't exit. That is why I liked Swift bullets, before switching the the Barnes.

I think we all can agree that it's kinda moot with deer, and maybe only relevant with bigger game such as elk. Heck, there are plenty of guys on this forum who claim that they regularly kill deer with varmint and match bullets. I'll bet a bunch also use those type of bullets for elk too. This whole discussion is relevant only if super penetration and high weight retainage is somehow deemed important. I still don't like varmint bullets or really explosive bullets for deer. For hunting down south, the old fashioned Speers, Sierras and Hornadys are just fine.

Ya'll keep showing these bent nose TSX bullets, and I may just go back to using the 225gr Swift out of my 338WM, or some heavy out of my 9.3x62, for deer hunting in bear country, and be done with it, and put my 06 aside for more southern hunting duties. I thought it was a good idea to switch, but false assurance is worse than known deficiencies. I would rather tote something closer to a sure thing.

KB

The TTSX has a larger hollow point behind the blue tip than the TSX (338 caliber shown below)



and as such would be less susceptible to small manufacturing detritus or plugging of the hole from some source

338, 308, 7mm, 277, 6.5



For this reason I have gone to TTSX's in the smaller calibers and have faith in the TSX in the larger calibers like the 270 gr 375 caliber TSX

Hi.

I had a 168 grain TTSX in a .30-06 at mv 2900 fps go through a young mule deer buck last year shot from the left flank and exiting the right mid neck (near point blank range) and the amount of damage in the rumen, liver, diaphragm, left lung and mediastinum was impressive. Made a real mess inside so I am sure that it expanded violently and still went through the deer's trunk lengthwise! I would be comfortable using the same for elk or in African plains game.

May or may not pertain to the posts above about nonexpanded Barnes bullets, but I have an old .250-3000 Savage that shoots 87 grain and 100 grain cup and core bullets well but 1 out of 3 Barnes 100 grain TSX's strike the target sideways (producing elliptical and bullet profile from sideways shaped holes) at 100 yards as the twist is too slow to stabilize the longer Barnes bullet. I suspect they would look similar to the non-expanded TSX's above if they struck an animal without being stabilized.

The 3 TSX's I recovered from game could go on a poster for Barnes. The only time I've wondered about a TSX NOT expanding was when I double lunged a zebra with a 300 grain TSX in my .375(hit just behind the heart as I thought it was quartered away from me as I could see it's backside quartered away but the shoulders were actually perpendicular to me) that went 1/3 of a mile before it died and I suspected the TSX 300 grain did not open based on size of the exit hole and how far the zebra went. The internal damage suggested otherwise so I'll never know whether or not it expanded but the bullet did it's job (better than I judged the animal's positioning). TSX's have penetrated well, created a good wound channel, and usually exited, so far for me have been a good bullet.

I've also been happy with Corelocks, Powerpoints, Silver Tips, Interlocks, and Game Kings (at medium velocities for caliber with game size and angles that don't push the limits of more rapidly expanding bullets) and Partitions and now TSX/TTSX when pushing velocity and shooting angles. I've not used North Forks, SAF's, Accubonds, Woodleighs or other bonded bullets on animals... yet.

Best,

jpj3

Shot this sow in the forehead a few years ago with my Sako AIII in .30-06 shooting 168 TSX's at 2900 fps.. It was running right at me, and I doinked it at about 30 yards.



Didn't find the bullet when dressing... But then a few months later while slabbing out some ham for my lunch, found it at the rear of the ham, just at the fat layer.

Went through about 42 inches of pig, 100% retained weight.

Excellent!

jpj3

Nice report Rancho, thats very close to a full length penetration

Again thanks for the nice reports and pics, I'll make an accurate load according to Qload it will be 2800 - 2900 fps