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I've been toying with the idea of a CZ Fullstock to add to my super small lineup. Right now my shooters are in a 270, a 300WMg and a 9.3x62 and I want to add something as a quick handling brush gun big enough to use on elk in the deep woods. Storage space and finances dictate a 4 gun battery at most, and my original thought was to go to another 9.3 FS, and trade out of my 9.3 American into something else...but then it occurred to me that there may be a better choice out there to use everyday, hence the 308 - 6.5x55 idea. At this point in time I hunt in Texas 98% of the time for WT's, sundry exotics as available, hogs and the occasional javelina. I bought a NIB CZ 22-250 American for some strange reason until I remembered I never varmint hunt anymore and have left it unfired in the box...and actually paid for but still at the dealer in Central Texas 200 miles south of me. Duh! So it is the source for my funding or trade activity. A great deal of my shooting is done from small box or brush & wire blinds either on the ground or at relatively low heights and gun handling inside one of these is tight to say the least, or creepin' N' sneakin' in tight cover jungles is always fun for under 50/100 snap yard shots. Actually the last javelina hunt in the super thick stickery stuff in south Texas, and several similar east Texas creek bottom hog hunts, has been the inspiration for this idea. My studies of the reloading manuals has driven me about blind and numb from the drop table/energy table/bullet comparisons and with CZ not offering a 7-08 or 260 to further complicate the matter I think the choice should be between either a 308Win or a 6.5x55 in a 20.5" barreled CZ 550. I'm not opposed to a 270, '06 or even another 9.3 but hate to double up on a caliber in such a small battery, and maybe open to the suggestion even of another rifle choice like a Ruger LWT - but at 16 1/2"s??? I doan't think so. I want a short barrel of about 20"s or less 'cause I'm tired of wrestling longer barrels and both the 308winnie and the 6.5 have a long history of being successful in that 20" barrel length. I am not a big fan of any Remington products and a remmy is not open for discussion unless I can steal something and sell it for more money. I need to stay in the $5-$600 range tops other wise I might look at a Tikka T3 SS/syn and chop off the barrel. I really hate being broke and pinching pennies all the time trying to live up to the level I WAS accustomed to ...but welcome to the wonderful world of old age and corporate America's idea of what to do with folks over 50. Buy your toys earlier boyz and doan't ever sell'em! Comments and any ideas please gentlemen..any and all appreciated. Ron | ||
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Go with the 308. I have been using 308's with 18 to 20 inch barrels for nearly 30 years. They are still one of my favorite hunting rifles. With them I have taken turkeys,deer, wild pigs,bobcat,coyote, various other varmints and black bear. A short light 308 is the perfect rifle for the hunts you have described. I have used 150 165/168 and 180 grain bullets with excellent results. I have used the 165/168 weight the most. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Go with a fullstock 6.5x55. I just recently finished a 6.5x55 and can't say enough good about it. Hell, it has no recoil! And it's far more accurate than I am. A 6.5 is all the medicine you'll ever need to kill deer around here and looking at your battery, you'll appreciate a rifle that won't move you around too much when you pull the trigger. Go with a CZ or if you can't find one, you might look at Ruger. A friend of mine just bought a Ruger M77 in .257 Roberts that's got a full length stock and its a scary accurate rifle. I cast my vote for the 6.5x55 over the .308. Jason "Chance favors the prepared mind." | |||
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Here's my 2 cents worth. For most of the hunting you describe my recommendation is the 6.5x55! I have used both the 6.5x55 and the 308. One of the nicest rifles I have owned was a stuzen Sako in 308, it was easy to carry and use but the muzzle blast was more than I cared for. These days I often carry a Tikka T3 Light in 6.5x55 and find it very good. Much of our stalking here in New Zealand is in tight cover, I find the 22 inch barrel to be of no impediment at all. After some consideration I have formed the view that the ideal barrel lenth for a medium game rifle to be used in the woods is 22 inches. I do have one 20 inch barrelled 7mm-08, but I would not buy anything shorter than that. Do not get anything with an 18.5 inch barrel. Should you get the Tikka use it as is for a season or two before you decide to chop the barrel. As for 6.5mm bullets, for deer the Hornady 129 grainer is a good choice. For heavier bullets in tight cover, my experince is limmited to the 140 grain Remington, it also is a good bullet. It should prove to be ok on pigs. The one advantage the 6.5 has over the 308 is its' ability to penetrate deeper than the 308 with medium for calibre weight bullets. There you go, that was more like 5cents worth, I hope it's of some use to you. | |||
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Of the short and powerful ideas I've seen was a '98 Mauser that retained the original 8 X 57 barrel, had the steps removed, barrel shortened to 18 1/2", irons installed and a tupperweare stock installed. No other work was done.....the bolt handle was left as-is, no D/T for scope mounts, no safety conversion, and in the end this guy had a very powerful (handloaded) and short and reasonably light rifle....he called it his truck gun but it was actually a lot better than that. He had less than $250 in the entire unit and as long as he didn't need that scope installed he had all he could ask for. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Until I read VD's posting I was going to say either one. The 8mm is in many ways far superior to the .308 or the 6.5 x55 (Which by the way I like a lot.)  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Id have to go with the 6.5x55 But I grew up with one so I may favor one over the other  You can't kill them setting on the couch. | |||
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Both are excellent calibers but I think that you will find that a 308 will live more happily in a shorter barrel since it is less overbore. Ammo for the 308 is of course far more available and cheaper unless you live in Scandanavia. And I would rather shoot an Elk with a 180-200gr 308 bullet (or maybe even a 168gr TSX) than any 6.5 bullet. I like the idea of a bigger hole. That being said the only reason you should ever sell a 9,3x62 is to buy another one! You should keep your 9,3 and maybe a 6.5 would offer a wider caliber/recoil contrast to a 9,3 than would a 308. Too bad you can have both but you can't go too far wrong either way. But if you can only have 1 18-20" barreled gun I think a 308 would be better. (PRDATOR is going to change his mind too as soon as he borrows one of my 308 Scouts)......................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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I'm with the 6.5x55 group. It's the only caliber I have more than one of. Heck, if you get down around Cedar Creek Lake, look me up and i will let you shoot them. Recoil is nothing, accuracy is good, and they are just fun to shoot. Don't have the full stock, but have a 550 American, and a model 98 with a shortened (20")'96 barrel in it, with a Ramline stock and 1.5-6 scope on it. It is my bad weather gun. | |||
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Remember he said "Up to elk". For that I would prefer a 180 gr in the 308. Also in the US you can find 308 ammo in nearly any town. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Well, since you said a CZ Full Stock I say either the 6.5x55 or the .30-06. The action length is the same on all these including the .308. However, the .308 is only available, if the catalog is still correct, in a detachable 4 round mag. Both the 6.5x55 and .30-06 have five round fixed mags which I'd prefer. If you want a .30 cal I'd go with the .30-06. Otherwsie I think the 6.5x55 would be dandy and much more pleasant to shoot. Sicne you are talking short ranges I think the 160 grain 6.5 would perform as well as the 180 grain .30 caliber.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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One of the reasons for choosing a FS CZ was to get a rifle where the stock was set up to shoot irons..and it fits me perfectly for that. Even at my state of grace health wise I can still see well enough at 62 to shoot 100 yards well enough without a scope and using irons. The last bunch of critters, WT's, Axis, Blacbuck, Javelina and hogs taken during the last 4 Texas Lottery Hunts I've managed to draw were all taken at under 50 - 100 yards out of a cramped ground blind, or creepin n' sneakin for the javelina, and in the Public Land creek bottoms I like up here in North Texas . The 270/300Wmg combo will reach anything else I need to reach plus go on a late season cow elk hunt planned for the end of this season where I plan to use the 9.3 as the primary - my partner will be shooting a 35 Whelen or a 45-70 so I don't expect long shots where we will be, with the 300WMg as backup. Z1r picked up on the availability of a heavier elk sized bullet for shorter shots in the 6.5 that should perform as well as the 308's in 180's, and yes every one I talk to about their 6.5's love them. Too bad CZ-USA doesn't import 7x57's anymore because that would IMO be the perfect choice in a FS. I'll talk to the dealer next week and see what he wants to do about either allowing me trade in the 22-250 that I have already paid for - depends on how his factory billing was done, and pay the diff for an ordered FS, or pick up the Deuce & a 1/4 and retail it myself. He's a long time good friend and former customer from my old days as a rep in the gunbidnizz in the 70's & 80's, and I would recommend anyone traveling between Dallas & Houston to stop and look at what Archie VanWey has in stock at Buffalo Sporting Goods just off I-45 about 1/2 mile east on the north side of Hwy 79 in the little strip center. Right now the idea of a 6.5x55 has captured my attention but availablity is always a question too, as I understand the 9.3's and some of the FS's are not always available factory direct like Archie is for CZ and some other lines. Thanks for the insights and comments. Ron | |||
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If you can do without the full stock, check this one out. I bought mine in 7mm-08 and it's been one of my better buys. http://www.savagearms.com/10fm.htm  | |||
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Now, this is an enjoyable contemplation...either, of course will do for your purposes, but WHICH to choose? I used to have a M94 Swedish carbine in 6.5x55. It was a splendid gun for high western open mulie hunting with the 139-gr. bullets, and excellent for western Oregon rain-forest blacktail hunting with the slower moving 156 gr.RN bullets. One of those rifles I very much regret having let get away. I used it with a receiver rear sight and bead front; never did scope it. Now I have a .308 Ruger RSI in .308. It is also a splendid rifle, with a little Leupold 2x7 compact scope on it, and is amazingly accurate offhand for the first three or four shots. One of my very favorite current rifles. Having said all that, I think I could just flip a coin and be happy forever with either. If I was you, I'd just pick the one least like whatever else I already have, and go for it. One last thought, I really like the 8x57 suggestion you got earlier in this thread. Matter of fact, I have done that and it worked out great. I have a Steyr "Professional" in 8x57 with the barrel cut to 19-3/4", and find it suits my pistol to a "T". Am using a little 4-X Leupold on it now, but will be looking for a higher quality 1.something x 5.something scope in the future. Basically, as long as you stay above 6 m/m and below 9.5 m/m, and use a case length of 57 m/m or shorter (so you can stay with a shorter action), I think its hard to go wrong with any cartridge, for your use. Good luck whatever you pick...it's bound to be useful AND fun. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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As Alberta Canuck said, flip a coin, you cannot go wrong. I have had a bunch of 308Win rifles, and am down to just one right now. A 22" barrel R93 Blaser. I have two 6.5x55's one's a 22.5" R93 Blaser semi-weight that I use for prairie dogs with 95gr V-Max bullets and for everything else with 140gr Trophy Bonded's and if I need it for really big stuff, I go with 155gr Lapua Mega's, check out the sectional density on those long spear like bullets. I have European shooting friends would use that bullet on Moose and Eland, talk about versatile. My other 6.5x55 is an 18.5" barreled K-95 Stutzen Blaser single shot. A lighter or more handy mountain rifle does not exist that is as pretty as her. I have not yet worked up loads for it, but for under 300-350 pound animals, it should make a great killer with the 120-140gr bullets. (I will admidt to planning on carrying a 4" 44mag revolver when it bear country as a backup for it.) If I had to choose just one, with the balance of your battery as described, I would probably go with the 308Win, and down in Texas, it would work for everything and ammo is available everywhere for it. | |||
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Ron, I shot my first deer with a 6.5X55, and my last deer with a .308 Win. The .308 is more common, offers more factory loads, and above all kills better than the 6.5 (the extra bullet diameter makes a bigger hole to let the wind in and the blood out as Uncle Elmer used to say). I have to admit that a Mannlicher full stock in 6.5X55 or 7X57 is cool. jim if you're too busy to hunt,you're too busy. | |||
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HunterJim, I agree that the 308 is more common (it's also more efficient in a short barreled rifle), but to say the 308 kills better than the 6.5x55 is very subjective. Please provide further empirical evidence to support your postulate.  **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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I use a BLASER ATTACHE and a MAUSER stutzen{full wood} in 6.5x57 but I also use a SAUER 90 stutzen and STEYR short luxus, both in 308. One could flick a coin. ozhunter | |||
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verhoositz, Take a look at the CZ-527. It sounds like a rifle that will fit your easy carry deer/hog rifle needs very well. Now it isn't avalable full stocked. And it doesn't come in the calibers you mentioned because it is a 223 length action (not a 308 size) thus with a 16" barrel it is very light and quick. Its avalable in 223 or 7.62x39 (rumors have in also in 6.8 SPC). I think that a 7.62x39 would be great in the situation you described plus plinking ammo will cost much less! Have a great day! ________ Ray | |||
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I am presently building a 'longer range' 280. My next project will be something along the grounds that you want, although probably not a fullstock. I've heard too much about poor groups/POA changing problems. One can buy an intermediate Yugo and get there for under 300 with a new stock and trigger. Another choice, and the one that I'm leaning to now, is a Remington pump in 35Rem or 308. I'm just hoping that I don't find a 35 before my 280 is finished.I think that a 35, espicialy with the new lever/revolution would be a great choice for blind 'feeder' shots or a quick second for stalking hogs. capt david "It's not how hard you hit 'em, it's where you hit 'em." The 30-06 will, with the right bullet, successfully take any game animal in North America up to 300yds. Get closer! | |||
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I have a CZ 550 FS in 6.5x55. Great round in a neat little rifle. Little recoil and very accurate (3 shots, 1MOA @ 100yds). I've never had a problem with POI shifts with it and it's bone stock! If you do get one and decide to scope it, I suggest getting medium Warne QDs and a small scope. I have a Leupold Vari XIII 1.5-5x20 on mine. BH1 There are no flies on 6.5s! | |||
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Thanks BlackHawk for the skinny on the rings. I also like the low powered varibles for this set up and was thinking a 1x5, 2x7, 2.5x8 something with an exit bell no larger than about 36mm or smaller and mounted as low as possible. No pressure to make a decision and just trying to stay cool and plan for the fall right now....after all this is Texas where 100*+ days are as common as mesquite trees and fire ants until the end of October. Ron | |||
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From black bear at 25 yards, [wild pig much closer] to javillina at 412 yards 18 to 20 inch 308's have always worked excellent for me. Forget that Euro trash 6.5x55, go with a 308.  Sorry could not resist The 6.5x55 is a great calibre with an excellent reputation. I will say this, I have never thought that a short bbl hampered me for 99% of shots fired while hunting. For the conditions you describe an 18 to 20 inch bbl is perfect. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Gidday Verhoositz, If you want to fill a hole in your current line up go with the 6.5. You already have a 308, albeit a rather powder hungry one but a 308 none the less. A 6.5x55 is no slug when it comes to penetration especially with 140gr and up. It will certainly out penetrate the 308 so is better suited for elk. At the other end of the scale I find that the 308 doesn't provide enough expansion to reliably knock over goat sized game when a 100 to 120gr 6.5 driven hard is deadly. The same goes for Fallow and Whitetail sized game. This is my experience anyway. Happy Hunting Hamish | |||
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